Another Cheap Moca 2.0 non-bonded adapter

[KrisH]

I got in the two MoCA Routers, and after a few days was able to reset my Network and set the units up.

Unlike my current Actiontec MI424-WR's the WAN/Broadband (Internet Connection) is not able to be deactivated, so the biggest issue with that is that the "Internet' light does not light up, and the "Broadband" symbol lights up Red, BUT IT WORKS and I am able to access the Internet through these devices.

So the key steps, as I recall them, were:

Access the IP address 192.168.254.254 direct via Ethernet cable
Login directly and change User Password (Advanced-Administration screen.)
Login again
Deactivate DHCP Server (Advanced - LAN & DHCP screen)
Set the static IP address & Mask to conform to my network NOTE: You enter this IP on the line that says Gateway address (Advanced - LAN & DHCP screen) [plus reserve it in the main Router.]
Activate MoCA (Advanced-Coax (MoCA) screen.)

Connect Coax cable and test connection to network and internet.

They have been working much better when compared to the MoCA 1.1 MI424-WRs I was using.

One is the WiFi AP in my home office with two printers, a server (with Plex), and laptop all with hardwire connections, then through WiFi my Roku, AppleTV 4k, iPhone and other devices.

The other unit is close to my Xfinity Gateway (with WiFi & MoCA access to the internet), so it has the WiFi AP deactivated and is connected to the WebOS LG TV, BluRay, and AppleTV via a wired connection.

Watched a movie through Plex on the LG TV and it did not stop to buffer once, whereas before buffering was a common frustration.

 

[Samir]

Awesome! Glad to hear you got them working and now that I read your steps that's literally what I did on mine as well, so thank you for posting the detailed instructions for others!

 

[Booboo22]

Hello fellow SNBs (just signed up to respond here and ask a few questions). @KrisH and @Samir, I've also used the NVG468MQ as per @KrisH configuration. I have Frontier FiOS 500/500 service, recently upgraded from the previous 75/75.

The entire Frontier kit was replace during this upgrade. I've put in a new WIFI router as the main home router (next to the FiOS ONT).

I then repurposed the original Arris router a MoCA bridge in the garage, and installed another Arris router as the AP/MoCA bridge in the home office.
Best I've gotten is about 440Mbps in Speedtest. Very good....

However, I've had a lot of problems with this configuration. I have 3 Arris units: one came with the FiOS install from Frontier. I've purchased 2 more from local ex-subscribers.

If I have as described, no apparent issues and up to 12 days uptime before I rebooted due to network testing I've been doing. However, if I enable WIFI on the bridge-only Arris, then all heck breaks loose. One or both Arris will reboot randomly, they radios will flip to 'initializing' often. It's as if once WIFI is enabled on both units they somehow become in conflict with each other. I'm pretty savvy with networking, coming from both IT and Telecom but for the life of me I cannot diagnose further, other than not enabling WIFI on both units. They do seem happy as MoCA bridges only...

If these continue issues, I'll consider the retail Actiontec adapters and be ready for a 1Gig broadband upgrade in the future. The 5G range on the Arris is not as good either, likely due to the placement of the internal antennae.

Another few glitches with using these Arris routers as bridges:

- You cannot turn off the WAN port as described, so you will have lots of diagnostic errors on the logs
- You cannot set the time and NTP is tied and locked to the WAN hence the logs are not that useful
- No SSH, all management is via HTTP
- There no explicit AP mode, so we are taking advantage of the MoCA chipset bridged to the LAN switch, but from the point of view of the router he's down, so unsure about longer term stability of the code in that fashion
- Under STATUS/LAN, the traffic table shows the MoCA interface down, but it's up. This seems to be a bug
- Under STATUS/MOCA STATUS, the router's interface always shows as MoCA 1.1 if there are 1.1 devices, but the table below correctly shows MoCA 2.0 connections. Again, seems cosmetic
- Being an OEM device, firmware will always be tied to Frontier's deployment timelines. For example, the previous firmware lacked the STATUS/MOCA STATUS page entirely.
- Upgrades are pushed by Frontier on the WAN side, so if there's a future firmware that you want you must enable the WAN and connect the router to the internet and the firmware is then pushed down.

Hope this info helps. I'd also be interested to hear if anyone has had any stability issues running in this fashion.

 

[Samir]

Great information! I never used the wifi on my fronteir g1100 units (just strictly as a moca bridge), so I don't know how this could be happening. The only thing I could think of is that is somehow is messing with the IPs, etc, but I don't know why or how it would be doing this.

Your firmware is definitely newer than the g1100 units I have as there was no moca1/2 designation at all--you could just see the negotiated speeds between moca devices in a table (mine would negotiate a 600Mbps speed that iperf tested to just under 500Mbps).

If you're going to move from the units, I would strongly consider the newer Moca 2.5 units on the market. The extra bandwidth will help support more sustained speeds over the whole network.

 

[Booboo22]

@Samir, I've yet again reset the units to factory defaults and recommissioned them to see if I can nail down the root the problem.

Yes, I would rather have the MoCA 2.5 adapters but they seem to be unobtainium at this point. I have a few friends in the CPE / chipset business and they have lost faith in further MoCA development and believe that the future will be all wireless (as in WIFI 6 and beyond). I tend to agree with them... In my particular case, the ONT and Router are in the garage, and my home office is some 50 feet away... however there's a living room with 20' ceilings between and therefore adding Cat 6 to the house is not at all easy.

That's really the only reason I'm doing this, but if I can get a good WIFI backhaul solution between the garage and the home office (perhaps look at the Orbi type solutions) then that would be grand. I have several computers and NAS devices in my home office and they are on their own GigE switch, so I can to backhaul that to the ONT/Router.

 

[Samir]

Gotcha. Hopefully that helps.

I seem to see the 2.5G products come and go as inventory ships. But from people's experiences with them, they'd really be worth it for full gigabit on the entire moca network.

I don't think wireless is going to be a replacement for wired until it gets to the point of cell phones vs home phones--there has to be a significant advantage over the disadvantages. And currently the only thing wifi has is portability, but that comes at a cost in speed. Even if the speed is solved, there's latency. I don't think it has a chance against wired personally.

As far as moca development, I was thinking 2.0 would be the end, but seeing there's 2.5G being used by carriers and the 2 companies making moca 2.5 adapters, I have hope--especially if Internet access speeds get above 1Gbs--then moca will be the only way to speed 2.5G through existing coax wiring and that would mean a lot to carriers as 4k goes to 8k, etc. The best wireless speeds still fall short of wired gigabit, and there's nothing that's changing that as of right now.

I think moca is a great solution for a link between the garage and home office. If it's just the wireless that's an issue, just shut the APs off and get some APs. If the moca needs to be faster, well you know the upgrade path.

 

[TRANSLITE GLOBAL]

Traslite Global has the MoCA2.5 adapters available in stock. TL-MC84. If you would like to purchase it directly, you can email sales@transliteglobal.com or purchase through Amazon as well. Usually direct emails when referred through SNB forums fetches clients an extra discount.

Thanks,
Translite Team

 

[TRANSLITE GLOBAL]

Gotcha. Hopefully that helps.

I seem to see the 2.5G products come and go as inventory ships. But from people's experiences with them, they'd really be worth it for full gigabit on the entire moca network.

I don't think wireless is going to be a replacement for wired until it gets to the point of cell phones vs home phones--there has to be a significant advantage over the disadvantages. And currently the only thing wifi has is portability, but that comes at a cost in speed. Even if the speed is solve, there's latency. I don't think it has a chance again wired personally.

As far as moca development, I was thinking 2.0 would be the end, but seeing there's 2.5G being used by carriers and the 2 companies making moca 2.5 adapters, I have hope--especially if Internet access speeds get above 1Gbs--then moca will be the only way to speed 2.5G through existing coax wiring and that would mean a lot to carriers as 4k goes to 8k, etc. The best wireless speeds still fall short of wired gigabit, and there's nothing that's changing that as of right now.

I think moca is a great solution for a link between the garage and home office. If it's just the wireless that's an issue, just shut the APs off and get some APs. If the moca needs to be faster, well you know the upgrade path.

You should try the TL-MC84. It has 2 gigabit ethernet ports which actis a mini hub.

Thanks,
Translite Team

 

[Booboo22]

Just saw that on Amazon, thank you!

 

[Kevin Hoy]

This works without configuration. I literally didn't have to change anything. I replaced a MOCA configured g1100 with this and it just worked. Unplugged the coax from the g1100 and plugged it into a stock frontier nvg468mq being used as non wireless FiOS router.

New Moca setup:

ONT->Cat5e->NVG468MQ->Coax->Splitter->Coax->G1100->Office Computer Network

Maxing out my 200/200 connection in the office at 5 Ms (almost no additional latency vs @ router)

Very pleased, since I haven't spent a penny. All equipment I had laying around and I was already using the 468MQ as my FiOS router (wifi turned off, orbi pro for wifi)

 

[Samir]

You should try the TL-MC84. It has 2 gigabit ethernet ports which actis a mini hub.

Thanks,
Translite Team

Very interesting. I seemed to overlook that before. I guess with a pair of these once can expect full gigabit speeds on both ports to the other end.

 

[Samir]

This works without configuration. I literally didn't have to change anything. I replaced a MOCA configured g1100 with this and it just worked. Unplugged the coax from the g1100 and plugged it into a stock frontier nvg468mq being used as non wireless FiOS router.

New Moca setup:

ONT->Cat5e->NVG468MQ->Coax->Splitter->Coax->G1100->Office Computer Network

Maxing out my 200/200 connection in the office at 5 Ms (almost no additional latency vs @ router)

Very pleased, since I haven't spent a penny. All equipment I had laying around and I was already using the 468MQ as my FiOS router (wifi turned off, orbi pro for wifi)

My pair of G1100s in local testing would hit about 500Mbps iperf and indicated they were linking at 600Mbps.

 

[Kevin Hoy]

My pair of G1100s in local testing would hit about 500Mbps iperf and indicated they were linking at 600Mbps.

I'll try to find some time to run internal speed tests. I will note that removing the old MI-424WR Rev I from the chain helped a bit. Went from 170/170 at 7ms in the office to 200/200 at 5ms on speed test.

 

[Jawadali]

Hi Everyone, finally registered on the SNB forums after many years to comment on this thread.

Quick questions:

1) How is the WiFi performance and coverage of the NVG468MQ? Good enough to be your main router in a smaller home?

2) For those using the NVG468MQ as a wireless access point with a MoCA/Coax backhaul to your main router, do you use the same SSIDs for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz that you use for your main router?

More background below. I will probably be back with more questions after Memorial Day weekend, when I have a chance to take a look at the coax wiring/setup at my folks' place.

Thanks!

-----------------------------------------------

My folks recently moved a few months ago, and the WiFi at their new home is very poor (ironically, it's a newer and smaller place than their old home). They are on a 50 megabit plan with a local cable provider. I upgraded their wireless-N router to a secondhand Netgear Nighthawk N7000, and things were much better.

However, I still feel there are connectivity issues when using their pseudo-HTPC downstairs (basically an old laptop used to for YouTube and Firefox). There are also occasional issues with video chatting from their phones, even though these got much better after the upgrade to the nighthawk.

Since they have coax in most relevant rooms (including the TV room), I started doing research on MoCA, and stumbled upon this very useful thread.

I just purchased an NVG468MQ on eBay, and from the photos, it's coming with a MEB1100 adapter. If I cannot get the adapter to work (albeit at MoCA 1.1 speeds), I'll probably look into getting a second NVG468MQ.

At that point, I am wondering if I can take the N7000 out of the equation, and just have two NVG468MQ connected by MoCA backhaul, with the WiFi enabled on both. One would be connected to the cable modem in the office room and would serve as the router.

 

[Kevin Hoy]

Hi Everyone, finally registered on the SNB forums after many years to comment on this thread.

Quick questions:

1) How is the WiFi performance and coverage of the NVG468MQ? Good enough to be your main router in a smaller home?

2) For those using the NVG468MQ as a wireless access point with a MoCA/Coax backhaul to your main router, do you use the same SSIDs for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz that you use for your main router?

More background below. I will probably be back with more questions after Memorial Day weekend, when I have a chance to take a look at the coax wiring/setup at my folks' place.

Thanks!

-----------------------------------------------

My folks recently moved a few months ago, and the WiFi at their new home is very poor (ironically, it's a newer and smaller place than their old home). They are on a 25 megabit plan with a local cable provider. I upgraded their wireless-N router to a secondhand Netgear Nighthawk N7000, and things were much better.

However, I still feel there are connectivity issues when using their pseudo-HTPC downstairs (basically an old laptop used to for YouTube and Firefox). There are also occasional issues with video chatting from their phones, even though these got much better after the upgrade to the nighthawk.

Since they have coax in most relevant rooms (including the TV room), I started doing research on MoCA, and stumbled upon this very useful thread.

I just purchased an NVG468MQ on eBay, and from the photos, it's coming with a MEB1100 adapter. If I cannot get the adapter to work (albeit at MoCA 1.1 speeds), I'll probably look into getting a second NVG468MQ.

At that point, I am wondering if I can take the N7000 out of the equation, and just have two NVG468MQ connected by MoCA backhaul, with the WiFi enabled on both. One would be connected to the cable modem in the office room and would serve as the router.

Unfortunately I turned off the wifi radio on mine and use it as an internet router only. I use Orbi Pro for wireless. I've gotten so used to poor or unstable wifi from FiOS routers that I've stopped using them years ago. Please let us know how they work as wireless AP for you, I'm using mine for the opposite purpose.

 

[Jawadali]

Thanks @Kevin Hoy,

Your experience posted earlier was super helpful - especially your wifi issue, and the list of cons/limitations with the NVG468MQ units.

Yes, my primary goal was solely to get Ethernet downstairs near my TV. I may be getting ahead of myself here thinking about using them as WiFi APs too .

Since I am a few hours away from my parents, I want to end up with something I can "set-and-forget". The nighthawk is doing a pretty good job.

In my own home, I used to use a Verizon G1100 as both router and WiFi access point (I'm currently a FiOS user), but the range was worse than my old Asus AC1200-class router, even though it's rated as a AC1750 router. The G1100 is now serving only as the router (and wired switch), and the ASUS is now set up in AP mode for WiFi access.

 

[Samir]

I'll try to find some time to run internal speed tests. I will note that removing the old MI-424WR Rev I from the chain helped a bit. Went from 170/170 at 7ms in the office to 200/200 at 5ms on speed test.

Interesting. Moca is a shared medium but I didn't think the amount of nodes would affect the bandwidth of transfers.

 

[Samir]

Hi Everyone, finally registered on the SNB forums after many years to comment on this thread.

Quick questions:

1) How is the WiFi performance and coverage of the NVG468MQ? Good enough to be your main router in a smaller home?

2) For those using the NVG468MQ as a wireless access point with a MoCA/Coax backhaul to your main router, do you use the same SSIDs for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz that you use for your main router?

More background below. I will probably be back with more questions after Memorial Day weekend, when I have a chance to take a look at the coax wiring/setup at my folks' place.

Thanks!

-----------------------------------------------

My folks recently moved a few months ago, and the WiFi at their new home is very poor (ironically, it's a newer and smaller place than their old home). They are on a 25 megabit plan with a local cable provider. I upgraded their wireless-N router to a secondhand Netgear Nighthawk N7000, and things were much better.

However, I still feel there are connectivity issues when using their pseudo-HTPC downstairs (basically an old laptop used to for YouTube and Firefox). There are also occasional issues with video chatting from their phones, even though these got much better after the upgrade to the nighthawk.

Since they have coax in most relevant rooms (including the TV room), I started doing research on MoCA, and stumbled upon this very useful thread.

I just purchased an NVG468MQ on eBay, and from the photos, it's coming with a MEB1100 adapter. If I cannot get the adapter to work (albeit at MoCA 1.1 speeds), I'll probably look into getting a second NVG468MQ.

At that point, I am wondering if I can take the N7000 out of the equation, and just have two NVG468MQ connected by MoCA backhaul, with the WiFi enabled on both. One would be connected to the cable modem in the office room and would serve as the router.

1. In our 1100 sqft apartment, this unit did quite well on wifi.

2. If the distance between the two units you are considering will be enough or there is a strong enough overlap of signal, a single ssid might work. The main problem with having the same ssid is that devices are stupid and hang on to a ssid at random and don't switch to the one with better signal.

I would caution on you trying to connect the NVG468MQ to the same line as the cable modem since this unit also has its own modem--that might really mess things up. If you want to connect it to the modem, make sure it is via ethernet and the coax for the modem and these units does not carry any common traffic.

 

[Samir]

Since I am a few hours away from my parents, I want to end up with something I can "set-and-forget". The nighthawk is doing a pretty good job.

Your proposed set up should be pretty set and forget once you have it set up. And worse case a yearly reboot might be needed.

 

[Jawadali]

Thanks @Samir! I will probably report back after Memorial Day weekend after having a chance to examine everything first-hand.