Apartment Wireless N - High congestion and erratic speeds at 2.4ghz. Options?

[bendispo]

Hi!

I'm currently living in an apartment complex that's thoroughly saturated across the 2.4ghz spectrum (15 or so other networks). I get relatively good signal strength all around the apartment, and in the late evenings / very early mornings when I'm probably the only person awake, I can get a steady 40 mbits/s in even the remotest corners of the apartment. I'm using a wrt160n router running dd-wrt.

However, the situation quickly goes downhill during other hours of the day when there's much more network congestion. My peak wireless throughput drops to around 20-30 mbits/s, but that can erratically drop even further to less than 1 mbit/s.

I'd like to get a relatively steady rate of at least 30-40 mbit/s, but I'm not sure how to go about this. I'm considering getting a higher-powered 2.4ghz router, such as the Buffalo WHR-HP-G300N, but I'm not sure that will relieve the sudden drops. In any case my signal strength is pretty strong (4 bars) and dd-wrt reports that my SNR hovers around 25 dB in my corner office (furthest away from the router and where I'm getting the most problems).

The other option I'm considering is going to the 5ghz spectrum with a router like the WRT400n. I'm anticipating that this frequency will have a lot less congestion, but people here don't seem to have had the best experiences with the 5ghz band, especially in regards to signal strength. This option would be more expensive for me as well, since I'm going to also need to replace my desktop wireless adapter, which currently only supports 2.4ghz. It seems like the only widely available adapters for 5ghz are USB, and again, testing results here seem to suggest that they're fairly lackluster.

If anyone can offer any advice, I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

[stevech]

The speeds you cite, above, are which? ...
1) The indicated WiFi rates (air link bit rate), or
2) Your actual measured rates, net of all overhead, at the IP layer.

If (2), how is this measured?

If (1), the air link bit rate is not affected much by channel congestion. The issue is your choice of channel (1, 6 or 11) on the WiFi router, versus if you have any neighbors that do a LOT of air time use for streaming video. The NUMBER OF nearby networks isn't meaningful. No more so that the number of registered automobiles - versus the number traveling on the same road you're on, to over-simplify.

If you can achieve 20+ Mbps net IP layer yield, PC to PC on your WiFi part of your LAN, enjoy. Leave it at that.
If you can achieve 10+ Mbps downstream on average, consistently, from your Internet Service Provider, rejoice. Speedtest.net's reported speeds vary widely by host chosen, and the test duration is too short to see the end of the burst-speeds provided for a few 10's of seconds by most service providers.

 

[bendispo]

Thanks for your help Steve.

The numbers I'm reporting are not the link speed (1), but the actual measured thoroughput (2), which I'm measuring by watching a live graph of the actual transfer rate while copying large file from a computer on my lan to a computer in my office via wireless. I'm fairly content with my average speeds (~20-30 gbps), but unhappy with my sudden drops almost to 1-2 gbps (or even lower) for a few seconds or even longer (sometimes over a minute). When this drop happens, my link speed also drops considerably (normally connects at around 80-100 gbps, but can drop to 1 gbps)... though I'm not sure what is causing this. I do have a couple of wireless g devices (a network printer and an android phone), so I'm not sure if this is causing the drop when they might be syncing, or if the drop is due to network congestion.

I just had adsl2+ installed to my apartment and am seeing sustained thoroughput into the house of around 18gbps, so I'd like to consistently have at least that speed on my wireless network.

I also have a media center pc, but even streaming non-hdtv material will have hiccups every few minutes or so because of the erratic drops in bandwidth. I've increased the buffer size, but these long extended drops in bandwidth still cause the media to stutter or freeze.

So, given what I'm experiencing now, running wireless n at 2.4ghz, I'm wondering if going to 5ghz will offer me at least similar performance in terms of thoroughput, but most importantly help stabilize my speed. Is the drop in thoroughput and link speed caused by network congestion, or is it caused by the presence of a couple wireless G devices that occasionally slow down the router? If the former, I'm thinking that I might go with a simultaneous dual band router to go to 5 ghz for the N devices while keeping my G devices on 2.4 ghz. If the latter, then probably an additional wireless router to act as a bridge to supply signal only for the G devices (I'm currently running mixed N & G mode on my wrt160n).

 

[thiggins]

There are many interference sources in 2.4 GHz. Microwave ovens, cordless phones (both 2.4 and 5 GHz), baby monitors, wireless cameras, etc.

5 GHz is generally less congested, but will have shorter range because its signals are attenuated more when passing through walls.

You may want to invest $100 in a RF analyzer to detect non Wi-Fi interference sources. MetaGeek Brings Back $99 Wi-Fi Spectrum Analyzer

Adjusting buffering on your player can compensate for seconds-long throughput dropouts. But nothing (except for copying files locally before playing) is going to compensate for minutes-long dropouts.

I would suggest trying HomePlug AV powerline if you can't run Ethernet. Or MoCA if you have coax in both locations (source and player).

 

[bendispo]

Thanks Tim for the response... and of course for this informative website.

I'd love to get an RF analyzer, but I'm currently a grad student living in an apartment, and just can't justify the cost of purchasing one. MoCa definitely sounds like an intriguing option, but again cost is an issue. I'm also not sure if I have an outlet coming out into the office. If there is one, it's definitely being hidden behind a large bookshelf.

I would love to just run cat5 across the apartment, but I'm living with my girlfriend, and she wants to keep thing uncluttered.

Soooo... I suppose, I'm still stuck on the wireless option.

Would you be able to provide any opinion on what's causing my drops? Does it seem like it's caused by interference or by the occasional presence of a couple wireless G devices (printer, smartphones)? Or is it caused by something else?

I had anticipated on just buying an affordable simultaneous dual band router, such as the wrt400n ($70 new on Amazon, even less refurbished) and running 5.0 ghz for my N devices and 2.4 ghz for G devices, but the signal attenuation issues plaguing every single 5 ghz device you've reviewed has me concerned.

Worst case scenario, the signal will have to travel about 40-50 feet across my apartment and across 3 walls to reach from the corner of the living room (where our htpc, adsl2+ modem, and router are situated) to the office where our main pc is located. Best case scenario, I think I can create a relatively open line of sight by placing an access point, most likely the WNHDE111, in the hallway outside the office. The 5 ghz signal would then have to travel roughly 30-40 feet, but would remain relatively unobstructed.

Do any of these solutions seem viable, or should I just be satisfied with what I have at the moment?

 

[stevech]

You'll do better at streaming HD TV on 5.8GHz (802.11a or the 5.8GHz version of 11n) than 2.4GHz if you are in a dense urban situation.

Streaming standard definition TV content (to an HD or not TV) takes only about 6 megabits/sec (6Mbps). HD content takes about 2-3 times that. I streamed standard def TV on 802.11g for years, from room 1 to room 2, same floor, one wall, with device at TV being a Buffalo bridge sitting way atop an armoire.

I now use MoCA (IP data via existing cable TV coaxes in the home). No wireless glitches - since there's no interference. This uses a pair of MoCA devices ($150/pair) and you need TV coax in place at each end.

Other people use IP over power line - but I chose MoCA due to power line noise and glitches.

PC to PC file transfers will be limited also by the IP stacks in the PCs and how fast those PC's CPUs are, and more so, by the disk transfer rates and Windows' overhead in the file system. I find that only really fast PCs and fast disks can exceed 30Mbps or so with Windows' shares.

 

[bendispo]

Thanks Steve,

Most of the video content I'm streaming would be 20 mbps or less, so I'm not really worried about much more bandwidth than that, but I would just like to solve the (seemingly) random drop-outs that cause the video to stutter or even freeze when they're occurring.

In any case, I just purchased a refurbished wrt400n for about $50 via Amazon, which I'll be flashing with dd-wrt. I'm really hoping that separating the 2.4 and 5 ghz bands for G and N, and moving my most important computers over to the higher spectrum will solve my problems... I'm just crossing my fingers that signal attenuation won't be too bad. My apartment's about 800 square feet, but the router and my office computer, which I'm also using as a file server, are on opposite sides.

 

[stevech]

a reliable no faltering 20Mbps for an hour, with WiFi in 2.4GHz, is not likely.
6Mbps or so, yes, with ideal signals.

 

[thiggins]

Note that the Wi-Spy I'm suggesting is the $99 model since I think you said your dropout problems are in 2.4 GHz.

If you can't look at your RF, then use inSSIDer or another WiFi traffic tool to see if you can correlate anything it finds with your dropouts.

Personally, I'd spend a bit more and get a pair of HomePlug AV adapters vs. another wireless router. They will provide steadier throughput and you won't have to deal with RF issues. I'd at least try them and see how they do. If you are in the US, BestBuy just dropped their restocking fees. Try the NETGEAR XAVB2001s.

 

[bendispo]

I wanted to thank everyone for their help and to post a short update.

Despite the suggestions of going through moca or powerline, I decided to try the 5ghz band first. In the end I purchased a WRT400N as well as a WET610N bridge, since according to the review here, they seem to work extremely well together. In addition, both of them can be purchased relatively cheap, especially as manufacturer refurbished units.

The WRT400N has been going for $60 new at a couple large online retailers (Amazon and Newegg) the last couple of weeks, and in my opinion is a fantastic value.

When I received the router and the bridge, I first upgraded them both to their most recent firmware revisions. I then placed the WET610N on top of a bookshelf in my office (the room that was giving me connectivity issues). The combination has been rock solid so far. I haven't experienced any of the dropouts that I had with the 2.4 ghz band. Also, I've tested throughput by transferring 1 gb files across the network, and the average speed has been 75 mb/s up / 60 mb/s down. My results are even better than those attained in the smallnetbuilder test. I've also streamed high definition content without a glitch. Furthermore, speeds from my laptop, which uses Intel 5100 wifi, have been consistent with those attained by the WET610N.

I couldn't be happier, and to be honest, I'm extremely surprised at my results, especially considering the both slow and inconsistent performance I was getting in the lower band. Using inSSIDer, I performed a site survey, which showed the presence of roughly 30 other AP's sharing the 2.4ghz spectrum, so perhaps I shouldn't have been so surprised after all.

Thanks again everyone for your help!

 

[thiggins]

Thanks for the report. Glad things worked out well for you.