Asus BT10 - still not stable at all even after latest firmware - been tinkering for months - high frustration

[raven-au]

So this one works better with Wi-Fi 7, MLO, single SSID, WPA2/WPA3, etc? This is a Qualcomm hardware set and mesh features are built in what they call Networking Pro platform. What is working there is actually coming from Qualcomm. In Asus case AiMesh is additional software on top of whatever Broadcom provided in their black box closed source software. Perhaps the main source of issues and slow fixing over time. I remember XT8 users were looking for stable firmware for like 2 years after release.

I don't think the vendor SDKs are black boxes.
I believe (I haven't actually looked recently) AiMesh has been kept closed by ASUS but I don't think that's part of the board SDK.
Some of the kernel modules used for drivers (eg. WiFi) are binary only but the firmware is built mostly from source, you can see what's what by looking at the Merlin gitbub repository to see what the SDK is made up of, there are several versions of the SDK that have been added as support for newer models have been added.
I doubt the Qualcomm SDK is any different, they won't be contributing their WiFi 7 chipset driver source to the Linux kernel yet although I get the impression Qualcomm is more willing to contribute than Broadcomm.
But I digress ...

 

[raven-au]

You may need to solve wireless cameras bandwidth issue. They are eating up most of what's available as bandwidth on the 2.4GHz channel. All your routers are on the same channel, they see each other and wait to transmit data. Single heavy on 2.4GHz band node will negatively affect the entire network. Outdoor wired and dedicated to cameras APs on different 2.4GHz channel may help.

The Orbi 970 series kit, also Quallcomm based, work well too but it is so limited in configuration options there's no way to make the Nintendo switches in our house connect to the 5GHz instead of 2.4GHz, a real problem for local LAN game play.

 

[Tech9]

They are all in what I call "Easy Button" category. Perhaps the better option for average consumer user.

 

[raven-au]

They are all in what I call "Easy Button" category. Perhaps the better option for average consumer user.

LOL, indeed, and that's the attraction of the ASUS devices, they have quite a comprehensive and flexible interface, and most of the time, in the long run, the firmware settles well.
This recent Pro / non-Pro division caused by the differing regional usage policies has really caused a problem for just about everyone but I think ASUS may be most affected.
For example Merlin WiFi 7 support, the number of different devices because of this makes it so much more difficult to add a broad range of these new devices.

 

[Broken Hope]

I had lots of problems with a GT98, my Sonos gear refused to work properly over WiFi with it, all problems went when I changed to an Orbi 970, single router no satellites.

 

[raven-au]

Even with a single main network with only 2.4Ghz band enabled and nothing else (no secondary network, no wifi7 no mlo - nothing) seems to be too much to ask... Neither my MacStudio or Iphone can manage to stay connect to it... it cycles and roams, but nothing...

Could we maybe start there ? If that by itself does not work... I don't think anything will...

Hi, glad to see you again.

It's a pity we don't have someone else with a BT10.
Even though the hardware is very similar and the SDK the firmware is built from should be the same, as @Tech9 says, not having the exact same makes it really hard to check things.

The other thing here is that while I have several iDevices we (at our home) don't rely on them as our primary devices.
But I have seen a number of cases here were people have been having WiFi problems with iDevices.
That just makes working out what's going on a lot more difficult when you have possibly got more than one problem which I think is the case.
Also, from what I see there are a number of people waiting for new firmware to resolve the iDevice problems and I also see similar problem reports for other routers that I use so it looks to be primarily an Apple problem and not restricted to the Braodcomm WiFi 7 firmwares.

For me, while it may be too early to tell, It turns out that using a UPS was a problem for me and plugging the router into a wall outlet appears to have helped, but at least another 24 hours is needed though.
I'm now not sure that setting the Modulation scheme made much difference after the power supply change but that change on the 2.4GHz wireless should not cause a problem for IoT devices either (although it might limit performance a bit for devices using later WiFi standards).
I always set the wireless channel to a set value for the 2.4GHz of 1, 6 or 11 since the auto setting has been known be less than perfect.
I'm also still using 20MHz only on 2.4GHz and I think that helps with my IoT devices.
I'm also now not sure (after the power supply change) that WiFi 7 and MLO settings are a problem but having said that within the next 6-9 hours a bunch of my IoT devices will probably drop off the network or start having flaky responses,

Anyway, all this is certainly a problem and I wish I could be more help but, to a large extent, I'm in the same situation.

 

[raven-au]

Hi, glad to see you again.

snip ...

Anyway, all this is certainly a problem and I wish I could be more help but, to a large extent, I'm in the same situation.

Actually there is one other change I have made for the 2.4GHz wireless in the Professional settings and that is to disable "Roaming assistant" because when @jzchen mentioned it I remembered it has been a common suggestion that sometimes helped.

 

[raven-au]

Exec summary: I tried everything possible for months (latest firmware installed) to get to setup 4x BT10s with a 10Gbps ethernet backhaul and 2 Wifi Networks (Main + IoT), but unfortunately to this day the IoT Network is very unstable on the 2.4Ghz and to a lesser extent on the 5Ghz band wrecking havoc on my IoTs devices (HomeKit).

While iDevices aren't my families primary usage device I have actually tried to setup a HomeKit Home on my iPad.
I have noticed that both Alexa and HomeKit reflect the status I see in the vendor apps for my IoT devices so I don't think that Alexa or HomeKit are themselves part of the problem.
Unfortunately HomeKit just doesn't have the range of device support I need ...

 

[jzchen]

Actually there is one other change I have made for the 2.4GHz wireless in the Professional settings and that is to disable "Roaming assistant" because when @jzchen mentioned it I remembered it has been a common suggestion that sometimes helped.

I believe roaming assistant helps with clients moving from node to node if I'm not mistaken. If you have a single router in the household then maybe not useful. I also have WAM enabled because other manufacturer routers are also running in the house....

 

[jzchen]

Even with a single main network with only 2.4Ghz band enabled and nothing else (no secondary network, no wifi7 no mlo - nothing) seems to be too much to ask... Neither my MacStudio or Iphone can manage to stay connect to it... it cycles and roams, but nothing...

Could we maybe start there ? If that by itself does not work... I don't think anything will...

View attachment 63781

The red marked settings seem suspect for 2.4 GHz...

 

[jzchen]

The remaining Professionals 5, 6-1 (WiFi 6E), and 6-2 (WiFi 7). It should be that 6-2 allows 320 MHz but 6-1 only allow up to 160 MHz, but both show the 320 MHz option for me...

 

[raven-au]

I believe roaming assistant helps with clients moving from node to node if I'm not mistaken. If you have a single router in the household then maybe not useful. I also have WAM enabled because other manufacturer routers are also running in the house....

It would be one less thing to worry about for stationary clients.

 

[raven-au]

The red marked settings seem suspect for 2.4 GHz...

And yet they are the ASUS default ... makes you wonder how much attention ASUS pays to this.

 

[jzchen]

And yet they are the ASUS default ... makes you wonder how much attention ASUS pays to this.

Hmm.

I'm afraid some settings change once you select MLO, and if for example it also includes 2.4 GHz. BUT I can't say disabling MLO then turns the appropriate settings back.

Also I can't guarantee that a hard/factory reset returns all the settings to default. I've had certain settings stay if I recall...

Glad we were able to catch your UPS use. I can't say I'm personally out of the woods so to speak. After the 1/20 BQ16 Pro update I decided to install an over year old beta on the AXE16000, which used to cause a nightmare on Ethernet which resulted in being lost/dropped as a node. With the most recent Windows 10 update and on a 10 GbE NIC, connected to the AXE16000 on that ancient beta that I was terrified to continue to use, now works flawlessly. Interestingly the BE 98 Pro was waiting in a box for me but I was hopeful to help ASUS work through debugging the beta before installing. (What made me quit was the Ethernet home alarm causing a ruckus around 3:30 am because the router went down. New router waiting in a box for me)...

And now the BQ16 Pro is back to being WiFi clientless with the similarly clientless RT-AX86U...

@citizengris If you need more clients connected to 2.4 GHz you'll want to reset each node, convert them to Access Points, then you can change the channel independently of each other, and connect many more IoTs.

@Tech9 You must really love your setup...

 

[raven-au]

Hmm.

I'm afraid some settings change once you select MLO, and if for example it also includes 2.4 GHz. BUT I can't say disabling MLO then turns the appropriate settings back.

Also I can't guarantee that a hard/factory reset returns all the settings to default. I've had certain settings stay if I recall...

Glad we were able to catch your UPS use.

Interesting, plugging directly into a wall outlet has made a big difference for me.
After a time I enabled WiFi 7 and MLO on the main network and that appeared to work.
And it does seem to have changed some settings in the 2.4GHz Professional tab but I have left that alone.
The "WiFi Agile Multiband" seems to have remained disabled though.
I then disabled WiFi 7 and MLO and created a separate MLO SSID and to my surprise it appears to be working better.

In my network I have a bunch of smart power devices, some power boards and some single plugs.
I also have a bunch of smart lights.
When things aren't working quite a few of these go offline in the vendor management app so it's clear things are broken.
Since plunging the router into a wall outlet all the smart lights are online and some of the smart power devices show offline.
With WiFi 7 enabled almost all of them come online after a time but one was left offline, after disabling WiFi 7 and making the separate MLO network all the smart power devices ended up coming online.
Most of the time one or perhaps two of the smart power boards would go back offline but this morning everything was still online.
So it looks fairly good for me.
The only problem I have now is wireless network speed appears to be less than half what it was before the changes ... **sigh** can't win!

 

[Tech9]

@Tech9 You must really love your setup...

What I currently use at home was actually a downgrade from pfSense appliance with Ruckus access points. My wife was a contributing factor for the replacement as she didn't like the industrial look for some time. She liked the Ubiquiti system I have installed in another place we own, it works well and I just replicated and expanded the setup. Now I have 2x systems with central management and happy wife.

 

[jzchen]

@raven-au

I also have WAM enabled because other manufacturer routers are also running in the house....

WAM (WiFi Agile Multiband) is a WiFi Alliance design. (EasyMesh is the same). Currently I have a TP-LInk Deco BE95 as my router receiving IP Passthrough from the AT&T BGW320-500. I have a Acer Predator Connect W6 running in "bridge mode" in my son's room. It's supposed to help distribute clients among access points (including different manufacturers).

You can use a surge protector, I did not have a UPS and simply plugged into one I had laying around when I first received the BQ16 Pro. So it was easy to notice that once I added the simulated sine wave UPS I all of a sudden had terrible performance...

I leave WiFi 7 settings off for 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. If you prefer them on of course that is your prerogative. I haven't invested much in IoTs, and when I do I try to make them a wall switch vs several bulbs, (aka minimize the number of IoTs I am adding).

@Tech9 We have different wives. Haha, my wife complained about the look once or twice. I know she would rather not have us pay extra to change that. Her priority is that, over aesthetics. My priority is raw performance but I'll continue working for stability...

 

[jzchen]

Interesting, plugging directly into a wall outlet has made a big difference for me.
After a time I enabled WiFi 7 and MLO on the main network and that appeared to work.
And it does seem to have changed some settings in the 2.4GHz Professional tab but I have left that alone.
The "WiFi Agile Multiband" seems to have remained disabled though.
I then disabled WiFi 7 and MLO and created a separate MLO SSID and to my surprise it appears to be working better.

In my network I have a bunch of smart power devices, some power boards and some single plugs.
I also have a bunch of smart lights.
When things aren't working quite a few of these go offline in the vendor management app so it's clear things are broken.
Since plunging the router into a wall outlet all the smart lights are online and some of the smart power devices show offline.
With WiFi 7 enabled almost all of them come online after a time but one was left offline, after disabling WiFi 7 and making the separate MLO network all the smart power devices ended up coming online.
Most of the time one or perhaps two of the smart power boards would go back offline but this morning everything was still online.
So it looks fairly good for me.
The only problem I have now is wireless network speed appears to be less than half what it was before the changes ... **sigh** can't win!

I really can't tell what is going on, especially what is working or not, meaning are those non-WiFi 7 clients connecting to the WiFi 7 MLO network, the WiFi 7 ONLY (meaning non-MLO) network, or the non-WiFi 7 network. Of course the more SSIDs you add, you are splitting the channel's bandwidth, so maybe that's why you notice a slowdown?

There are likely bugs contributing to the problem... It was interesting to watch how both TP-LInk and ASUS WiFi 7 both worked, and also both had bugs, around the same time. I'm not sure why it is recommended to separate 2.4 and 5 GHz. Whether that is unfortunately misinformation being spread, or not. When one creates a WiFi network if you add say 2.4 and 5 GHz this asks for one SSID and these are hence Smart Connected. ASUS has had this for many years now. We paid for it, AND I find it reliable, so long as I keep WPA2/WPA3-Personal (aka Transitional) on, every single one of my WiFi 6 (non 6E,) and lower standard, are happy, including the only WPA2 requiring iPad Air 2. (If I switch everything to WPA 3 the only thing that stops working is that iPad). Everyone's collection is different and I know of one who has 2 GT-BE 98 Pros running, but has a WPA printer. I have a Deltran WiFi enabled 10 A automotive battery charger that is under the hood in the front driveway. If it disconnects then it doesn't reconnect. (My finicky IoT)...

 

[jzchen]

What we know:

WiFi 7

6 GHz
4k QAM
AES + GCMP 256
MLO

What do we not "know"

Is 4k QAM backwards compatible with 1k QAM. What do I lose if I force it to connect to my 1k QAM devices.

AES + GCMP 256, aka 256 bit encryption. Does WiFi 7 enforce/require all clients to this encryption? Is it backward compatible? If I make it run in backward compatibility mode do I lose the benefit of the higher security?

WiFi 7 enables 320 MHz bandwidth. Do you have anything that is capable of handling 320 MHz bandwidth on 6 GHz, or 240 MHz on 5 GHz? Is it backwards compatible? What happens if I mix non-320 MHz with 320 MHz clients?

MLO - Again similarly, is this backward compatible? (To my understanding the answer is NO since they ask for a 2nd SSID for Legacy/IoTs).

Now look at your collection of WiFi 7 devices and determine how you want to proceed. Every household is different I can't make a blanket set of settings for everyone...

 

[jzchen]

I don't think the vendor SDKs are black boxes.
I believe (I haven't actually looked recently) AiMesh has been kept closed by ASUS but I don't think that's part of the board SDK.
Some of the kernel modules used for drivers (eg. WiFi) are binary only but the firmware is built mostly from source, you can see what's what by looking at the Merlin gitbub repository to see what the SDK is made up of, there are several versions of the SDK that have been added as support for newer models have been added.
I doubt the Qualcomm SDK is any different, they won't be contributing their WiFi 7 chipset driver source to the Linux kernel yet although I get the impression Qualcomm is more willing to contribute than Broadcomm.
But I digress ...

I actually tried to offer help (but with the caveat I'm not a programmer by trade). I was informed by a friend at ASUS that they get their firmware direct from Broadcom, implying that at least WiFi implementation is proprietary, (or I'm under qualified, the nice way of putting it)...

I agree the SDK is not gonna be a "blackbox" as you note. But what they program into the firmware...

Even ASUS' Game Radar was sending pings out (by default) on all but the most recent firmwares...