Apple Homekit | Thread Boarder Router | IOT vs Home Network

[aps]

Our home network comprises Work, Home and IOT Networks with the Home Network including an Apple TV, NAS and various personal computers. We are now installing a number of smart home devices and using the new Thread protocol as the basis which, by default, sees the devices connected to the Apple TV as the Thread Boarder Router. My concern is that these IOT devices are, in effect, will then be part of the trusted Home Network and I’m looking for advice about how to address this concern. The simplest option is to move the Apple TV is into the IOT Network sitting beside some (legacy) Wi-Fi based smart devices and supporting the Thread-enabled smart devices. This model exposes the Apple TV (which is linked to our Apple ID) to the IOT devices although I'm unsure as to how much of an issue this is given that tvOS is kept up-to-date etc. Another option is to use another Thread Boarder Router such as https://www.kirale.com/products/ktbrn1/ or Nanoleaf Elements but I think that this precludes use of Apple HomeKit to manage the environment. Any advice on how to secure such a set-up?

 

[sfx2000]

Thread is it's own dedicated radio and communications SW stack, and the ATV acts as the GW and Hub. As such, Thread itself is not tied to the WLAN/LAN at all.

ATV handles the interworking across bonjour, thread, homekit, etc - much more than just a media player at the end of the day.

You can put the IOT device wifi connectivity on a dedicated VLAN/SSID if you feel it's necessary...

You can keep the ATV on the main SSID/VLAN so you can have all the other functionality as needed - AirPlay, Bonjour Sleep Proxy, etc...

 

[aps]

Thread is it's own dedicated radio and communications SW stack, and the ATV acts as the GW and Hub. As such, Thread itself is not tied to the WLAN/LAN at all.

ATV handles the interworking across bonjour, thread, homekit, etc - much more than just a media player at the end of the day.

You can put the IOT device wifi connectivity on a dedicated VLAN/SSID if you feel it's necessary...

You can keep the ATV on the main SSID/VLAN so you can have all the other functionality as needed - AirPlay, Bonjour Sleep Proxy, etc...

Understand. That said, if the ATV sits in the Home Network and the Thread-enabled IOT devices are connected to the ATV then isn't there some exposure for the other devices on the Home Network?

 

[sfx2000]

Understand. That said, if the ATV sits in the Home Network and the Thread-enabled IOT devices are connected to the ATV then isn't there some exposure for the other devices on the Home Network?

HomeKit is more than just Thread - it's BLE and WiFi - there Matter has it's security layer, as well as Apple's security layer - outside of HomeKit/Matter/Thread, it's really up to the device... Apple has their own certification for HomeKit enabled devices, and there they do evaluate the entire device, not just the HomeKit API's, so I'd feel pretty safe with HomeKit itself. Thread is similar, in that to be a "thread" device, it has to go through the lab testing there. Matter is the same.

I think as long as you buy from a trusted vendor/supplier one should be ok - of course that mean cheap devices from AliExpress, etc probably would be excluded.

Recall that the whole concept of Matter/Thread/Homekit is to establish and maintain credibility of the product - not just out of the box, but also for a reasonable amount of time afterwords...

 

[sfx2000]

Recall that the whole concept of Matter/Thread/Homekit is to establish and maintain credibility of the product - not just out of the box, but also for a reasonable amount of time afterwords...

That's part of the reason why one typically pays double the price - it's the certification efforts...

Belkin Wemo Smartplug with HomeKit - $25 at the Apple online store (35 on Amazon, FWIW) - The Wemo stuff is pretty good, I've got a couple of devices that I got for testing HomeKit.

I can get a TPLink HS103 Kasa WiFi smart plug for $15... (I have a couple of those as well)

 

[Clark Griswald]

@sfx2000
Thank You for the HomeKit information. Casa Griswald has evolved into an Apple-centric home. I've wanted to get into HomeKit and Home Assistant via Pi, but all the RPi hobbies stalled due to the lack of boards.

 

[sfx2000]

Happy to help...

ATV4 is not the only option for the HomeKit Hub, HomePod Mini can also act in that role, and it also has a thread radio included.

 

[sfx2000]

ATV4 is not the only option for the HomeKit Hub, HomePod Mini can also act in that role, and it also has a thread radio included.

Apple HomeKit Hubs w/Matter Support (tvOS 16.3.2)

1) ATV4 (HD and 4K)
2) HomePod 2nd Gen, HomePod 1st Gen
3) HomePod Mini
4) newer iPads with iOS 16 - this is being deprecated by Apple, but it does work as one for the moment as of March 2023

HomePod Mini, 2nd Gen Homepod, ATV4K 2021, and ATV4K 2022 (WiFi+Ethernet) also have thread support.

Should also note that ATV4 (HD and 4K), HomePod/HomePod Mini - they can act as Bonjour Sleep Proxy hosts for Macs on Wake on LAN/Wake on WLAN - just like the old 802.11n and later Airport/Timecapsules..

 

[coxhaus]

One of my VLANs has kind of evolved into an Apple network running HomeKit on my AppleTV 4K. I like HomeKit. I have my lights on it. My iRobot still is on its own iPhone.

 

[oldguy]

This is a great thread, that should help a lot of people
I have been running Apple HomeKit for 3 years with Wemo switches with the recent addition of EVE thread based door switches and Wemo thread devices, that are all controlled by my recent Apple TV 4K connected by Ethernet cable.

I previously used the prior generation of Apple TV and was very disappointed with Home kit performance which required rebooting the system every 28 days

I finally replaced my dual ASUS RT AX89X mesh after one of the units died and replaced it with a Ubiquiti UDM Pro SE system which eradicated all of my HomeKit issues with 100% system uptime between firmware updates.

So I would seriously advise folks to not immediately blame the HomeKit devices but to look at the network as a whole, as the other underlying issue I had was a coax cable splitter installed by spectrum for the previous home owner to my cable modem that seemed to be the root cause of multiple thousands of could not recover errors which showed up on the UDM Pro as increased latency, packet loss and short 1 minute disconnects, which also negatively impacted things like video conferencing and speed net line test performance

 

[coxhaus]

I have no issue running HomeKit on my AppleTV 4K. I also had no issues running it on my prior AppleTV. They run 24/7 in my house. My uptime is since the last Apple Update. I never have to reboot my AppleTV do to HomeKit. I had a JBL Bluetooth speakers issue which Apple fixed next software update. I like using the JBL Party box speakers for my 4K TV as they have much better sound quality than the TV speakers or any soundbar that I have seen. There are also no wires to deal with using Bluetooth speakers as I use dual speakers.

My only issue is my house is so large Bluetooth only works in one end of my house at a time. I have walk to which ever end I want to control. We mainly run it automated.

I use Cisco networking equipment and Pfsense now for my router.

 

[oldguy]

Just to be clear
My HomeKit runs on a mix of thread, matter & Wifi radio links, so they are hooked up to the Apple TV by the appropriate radio.
The HomeKit issues I had were all down to the RT AX89X router & RT AX89X mesh node, I have had no reboot’s of my network Router, switches or access points or issues with my home kit devices

 

[sfx2000]

My only issue is my house is so large Bluetooth only works in one end of my house at a time. I have walk to which ever end I want to control. We mainly run it automated.

HomeKit and Airplay (Airplay2) are two different things, as is Bluetooth...

Whole Home audio is an interesting thing, esp now that the Sonos lawsuit against Google has been sorted...