Asus locking down routers to comply with new FCC rules

[DrTeeth]

DrTeeth, I think you are being short-sighted about this issue.

What we are discussing, or at least what I was getting at is that the US FCC has passed a law that regulates routers to the point where users cannot change their locale. Some reasons this is a problem-
1- The US dictates a policy that affects others.
2- Router companies to do not configure their localization settings (power, channels, etc) correctly for all areas.
3- The FCC has regulated third party support out of other electronics, and certainly has the power to COMPLETELY lock down routers. Party over. Or at least made much more difficult.
4- Sure your current router can be fit with an older version of rmerlin to get proper localization, but what about the next router you buy? It may not have the potential for third party software at all.
<snip>

I fully agree with everything above. The only reason I am complaining about the issue is reason 2 above. If my router were correctly localised, I could still use Merlin's firmware without issue.

The BIG problem with point 4 above is that the retailers do not have a clue about the issue and do not care judging by one big router retailer I contacted here in the UK.

In spite of what they may think, the FCC has no jurisdiction outside the USA and router manufacturers should just grow a pair.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

I fully agree with everything above. The only reason I am complaining about the issue is reason 2 above. If my router were correctly localised, I could still use Merlin's firmware without issue.

The BIG problem with point 4 above is that the retailers do not have a clue about the issue and do not care judging by one big router retailer I contacted here in the UK.

In spite of what they may think, the FCC has no jurisdiction outside the USA and router manufacturers should just grow a pair.

The problem is yes they have NO jurisdiction outside the US and most if not all router vendors are not in the US but the US is a huge amount of there sales and revenue so yes they will try and kiss butt. The whole thing is ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 27741]

Well said, DrTeeth. I don't think it about kissing butt, or not having a pair, it's about saving money. Complying correctly with the wireless channels/power statutes/etc of every area is a lot of if/then statements or whatever coders really hate to bother with and it would cost money. Let's just hope the FCC doesn't go all "cell phone" on routers.

 

[philmiami]

It is now LEGAL to unlock your 100% paid for cell phone
So if that happened to that, then there would need to be 100,000 verifiable US signatures on whitehouse.gov before it would even get looked at.
and that means some post on there explaining why the FCC should not lock down routers.

 

[eddiec]

Hi, I just ordered an RT-AC68U. What firmware do you think it will arrive with? If it's the dreaded 376 can I downgrade to merlin's 374.43_2?

Edit: Mine arrived with firmware 3.0.0.4.374_379.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

Hi, I just ordered an RT-AC68U. What firmware do you think it will arrive with? If it's the dreaded 376 can I downgrade to merlin's 374.43_2?

Sure no reason why not. Good Luck !!

 

[KGB7]

There are several costly scenarios that you have to take into consideration.

1. If firmware is made for different countries, then nothing will stop you from using firmware from other country.

2. Locking regulations on hardware level, won't stop you from buying or personally importing a router from another country. Thus new import rules would have to be implement and this it self is very expensive to all Governments.

Newegg, exports products to many countries out side of US. If new export laws went it to effect, newegg would lose a big chunk in profits. They and other sites a like, would fight FCC till the sun stops burning.

At the end of the day, its easier and cheaper to throw everyone in the same pot.

If FCC is serious about new rules, then over the next few years we might see new import/export laws go in effect, so US based companies can slowly transition and not take a huge financial loss over night.

One example of top of.my head. Canadian residents, can't buy new cars in US and bring them back to Canada. No new car dealer will sell a car in US to a Canadian.

If I'm a US resident, no dealer will sell me a new specific brand name imported vehicle for export. I have to sign legal binding documents, stating that I won't export the new vehicle out of US. Plus you have to finance the vehicle, proof of financing from your bank and they won't accept cash as full payment.


Wait few years before you start complaining.

Or you can start a petition and send it to your Government representative to reverse new rules.

 

[Chrysalis]

certian products I think wholesalers can enforce rules where retailers can sell to, I remember in the past e.g. been unable to buy certian goods from america because they are exclusive to the american market.

samsung often have made special phones just for the american market, they also have made some phones just for poorer markets.

 

[speedbump]

I fully agree with everything above. The only reason I am complaining about the issue is reason 2 above. If my router were correctly localised, I could still use Merlin's firmware without issue.

The BIG problem with point 4 above is that the retailers do not have a clue about the issue and do not care judging by one big router retailer I contacted here in the UK.

In spite of what they may think, the FCC has no jurisdiction outside the USA and router manufacturers should just grow a pair.

FWIW, I just loaded my RT-N66U with Kong's version of the DD-WRT and I checked changing regions between North America and Europe, on the 5GHz I saw that in NA there were only about 6 channels, when I switched to Europe the list doubled or tripled. On 2.4GHz Europe has the extra 12 and 13 channels.

Internet connection is just as fast and responsive as Merlin's release was.
Wifi speed with default settings is also similar.
Stability wise, it's been on for several days without issue.

Now I am going to apply DD-WRT to the RT-AC68U. Should have got the netgear 7000, better hardware and cheaper.

 

[KevTech]

FWIW, I just loaded my RT-N66U with Kong's version of the DD-WRT and I checked changing regions between North America and Europe, on the 5GHz I saw that in NA there were only about 6 channels, when I switched to Europe the list doubled or tripled. On 2.4GHz Europe has the extra 12 and 13 channels.

Might be using older code.

 

[speedbump]

Might be using older code.

Latest build:
http://desipro.de/ddwrt/K3-AC/24200/dd-wrt.v24-K3_AC-NEWD.bin

Have not tried to change the power output yet, currently set at default 71.

I realize that could be using older broadcom wifi driver, but regardless, it's stable, works as suppose to.

 

[Chrysalis]

what I posted elsewhere after some testing. In short the wifi situation is a mess.

After some testing here is what was happening.

On default EU this happened.

when set to 20/40/80 mode phones all only connected at 20mhz, 72mbps. throughput also was less reliable than 2.4ghz with random stalls.
when set to 40mhz fixed width phones connected at 150mbps but throughput put was no faster than 20mhz.
when set to fixed 80mhz phones only connected at 20mhz, so I concluded issue is with 80mhz mode.
In addition channel was forced to channel 36 with no extension channel, it ignored the channel I chose in the GUI when using either 80mhz or 20/40/80mhz modes.

On GB, same as above but with less stalls so more consistent throughput.
On IS same as above but got bit higher speeds and noticebly higher signal strength. (full bars)

Unregulated, the 20/40/80 and 80 is fixed, they work properly my channel setting works and I get the extension channel as well. Speeds are actually significantly higher than 20mhz mode as well. Although still not quite as fast as the hh5 achieved.

It does seem asus routers are in a mess, is very volatile wifi and ipv6 code at the moment, and they are trying to lock down these routers which seems to have broken things quite badly.

 

[stevech]

Many countries have regulations much more restrictive than those of the US, notably Japan and France.
For 2.4GHz and 5.4/5.8GHz bands which are unlicensed in most but not all countries.
I recall that Oman has/had a prohibition of outdoor access points in some bands.
France is notorious for having very low radiated power limits (overly paranoid about human tissue damage).

 

[tarmdjur]

With the latest Tomato by Shibby, SDK 5.110, on my RT-N66U, I got all channels on both bands and the excellent range and throughput that we had when the router was new a couple of years ago.

What SDK is DD-WRT Kong using? I haven't tried it since I'm assuming it's SDK 6, and since DD-WRT has worse QoS than Tomato.

 

[Chrysalis]

Problem with shibby tho is ipv6 is a complete mess (I couldnt get it working properly at all) and whenever just about any setting is changed the ppp session is restarted which to me is lazy design.

 

[ScratchMonkey]

It probably has nothing to do with interference with other routers. It's interference with other things in the same band, like baby monitors. We saw the same thing back in the days of the CB radio fad, when abusive users would use monster amplifiers and interfere with broadcast TV signals. I recall my TV picture breaking up when some idiot in the neighborhood "keyed up" to talk.

 

[DrTeeth]

It probably has nothing to do with interference with other routers. It's interference with other things in the same band, like baby monitors. We saw the same thing back in the days of the CB radio fad, when abusive users would use monster amplifiers and interfere with broadcast TV signals. I recall my TV picture breaking up when some idiot in the neighborhood "keyed up" to talk.

That type of interference had nothing to do with the frequency used and would have happened to you with any nearby transmitter. CBers do not use broadcast frequencies.

 

[ScratchMonkey]

It helps to visualize what radio actually looks like. A channel is not a single point in the spectrum and one channel can interfere with adjacent ones. Channels 12-14 are reserved in some countries (ie. the US) for other purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

CB is indeed broadcast. Everyone for miles around can hear your transmission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_band_radio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcasting

 

[DrTeeth]

It helps to visualize what radio actually looks like. A channel is not a single point in the spectrum and one channel can interfere with adjacent ones. Channels 12-14 are reserved in some countries (ie. the US) for other purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

CB is indeed broadcast. Everyone for miles around can hear your transmission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_band_radio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcasting

That is NOT broadcast.

I am fully aware of how radio works, having held an Amateur Radio license for nearly 40 years. You suffered what is called 'break-in' and it would have happened if ANY frequency would have been used. The CBers did not interfere with "broadcast TV signals", your TV was lacking technically to allow the issue. A 'broadcast' is a radio/ TV transmission INTENDED for multiple reception and the are specific frequency bands for broadcast services; NONE of which are close to any CB signals in ANY country, legal CB or not. There was no direct interference, period.

Just because somebody can hear a radio transmission does not mean it is a 'broadcast'. A broadcast has a very specific meaning in radio regulations.

 

[Builder71]

If people start letting Asus know they live outside the USA and what their dilemma is you may get some results.

Posting here does nothing as Asus does not read this forum regularly that I know of.

Send mail to: Networking_Support@asus.com

Done.

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