ASUS RT-AC87 Firmware - Official Releases

[RMerlin]

The router was by itself on a desk with rubber feet attached to give 8-inch clearance underneath with an 80 mm USB fan under it to increase air flow. Last temp reading was 114° C with only 7 users.

Asus Tech Support rep said we were the 10th customer this week with confirmed overheat issue with the 87U/R. They're working on new firmware and another new driver from Quantenna to try and reduce heat. No plans to change using thermal tape instead of the paste or use better quality heat sinks. Those are apparently $12 heatsinks. Router is in box awaiting RMA label.

114C is definitely abnormal. The vast majority of us have 80-90C top with ours (mine sits at 84C right now).

The current heatsink is sufficient, I bet just applying better thermal interface would greatly help.

I don't see how software could resolve the issue. Sounds like a generic level 1 answer to any unexplainable problems to me sadly.

 

[Tragic]

Is anyone aware of an issue where the device won't update to the latest version or any regional differences.

Im on 3.0.0.4.376_2769-g1bb5fac but the device says "The router's current firmware is the latest version."

This is actually my second RT-ac87u, the first one was on the 2061 when it shipped and would always say its on the latest version. When I tried to manually apply the latest firmware from the asus site it basically bricked the device and I had to RMA it.

Well I got a new device and while its on a newer firmware from the factory it still won't take any updates :/ I'm Australia based if it makes a difference.

 

[StormEffect]

Regarding auto-updates:
I've only had the automatic firmware update work on one or two of my routers in history. I assume the addresses routers use to check for updated firmware are rarely (if ever) updated. We watch like hawks for firmware drops because we are enthusiasts, but I assume they probably only update the web service with new firmware several months after the drop on the webpage.

 

[richdbenson]

I've been using a similar set up with 2 x RT-AC87s in Router/AccessPoint configuration. I previously had AT&T Uverse Power and was noticing a lot of drops from the main router and had to reboot the whole configuration several times. I thought the issue was with the ISP because the DL/UL speeds on Wifi for 2.4/5Ghz were slow (10-40Mbps) so I switched over to Comcast. Since, I've been getting at least 50-80 Mbps on all my wireless devices connected to the network. Unfortunately, I encountered the same issue yesterday where I had to reboot the whole configuration. I reset the NVRAM and upgraded the new stock FW 85 and my set up has been stable for over 12 hours on both signals.

When I upgraded the FW from Merlin 49_5 to the stock 85 FW I did change up my configuration. Since there have been a lot of issues with users with 2x RT-AC87s in Router/AccessPoint configuration I decided to do a Router/Router configuration.

Noob question...Any differences between a router/ap vs. router/router configuration? Pros/Cons?

Could you describe how you do the router/router setup? I can't seem to get my second router to stop trying to be the WAN....

Thanks

 

[Richard1864]

114C is definitely abnormal. The vast majority of us have 80-90C top with ours (mine sits at 84C right now).

The current heatsink is sufficient, I bet just applying better thermal interface would greatly help.

I don't see how software could resolve the issue. Sounds like a generic level 1 answer to any unexplainable problems to me sadly.

So does that mean they already know there's a overheat issue, and just don't want to update the hardware to fix the problem? And yeah, I'm not impressed with their answer either. It's almost like they're trying to white wash the issue.

 

[sinshiva]

So does that mean they already know there's a overheat issue, and just don't want to update the hardware to fix the problem? And yeah, I'm not impressed with their answer either. It's almost like they're trying to white wash the issue.

He's suggesting that you have a defective unit, otherwise the cooling should be adequate. That Asus admitted to reports of faulty units suggests that a problem exists and is being looked into. And considering your temps, it's unlikely that a software resolution would fix your unit, but they are exploring all possibilities.

 

[dfran1]

The router was by itself on a desk with rubber feet attached to give 8-inch clearance underneath with an 80 mm USB fan under it to increase air flow. Last temp reading was 114° C with only 7 users.

I do not know what my temps are BUT I do notice it warmer than 5 months ago for a fact tho.

tonight I could not get the lag out of my router with the PS4, I made absolutely no changes in the router, it just would not give me lag free ps4 play no matter what, reboot ect.

So I
1. put a laptop cooler under it
2. Loaded the latest firmware again
3. WPS reset
4. used the asus restore utility with the latest firmware


Now still minimal setup, just a password, wifi, and change of network to 0.1 instead of 1.1 THAT IS IT. Now lets see how long the no lag lasts.
just played for 2 hours, no lag at all. Its friday night so lots of people surfing, movies ect. meaning I usually see lag and I had none. WOW just WOW.

Now it looks like this is a POS for sure, What I do not know is if mine is damaged by heat now and its life span is just after the warranty?

Edit: I changed the order in what I actually did them

 

[RMerlin]

So does that mean they already know there's a overheat issue, and just don't want to update the hardware to fix the problem? And yeah, I'm not impressed with their answer either. It's almost like they're trying to white wash the issue.

I don't know. Nobody seems to know what's the max Tj for the Quantenna chip, so it's impossible to tell if it's overheating or not. All I can say is that your particular router's temperature is much higher than everyone else, so looks like you actually have a defective unit.

What I noticed over the years is that Asus's tech support is overzealous at recommending customers to RMA their device. I've seen cases where "just RMA it" was their answer to something that was an obvious software or configuration issue.

 

[8undy]

Could you describe how you do the router/router setup? I can't seem to get my second router to stop trying to be the WAN....

Thanks

When you set up the second router, under administration setting, keep the 'operation mode' on wireless router mode.

Since upgrading to new FW the configuration has been stable for over 40 hours. The previous config of Router/AP would drop signal after 6 hours and force me to reboot both routers.

 

[Richard1864]

No one at Quantenna or ASUS was able to answer our questions about the max temps with the QSR1000 (the 5 GHz chipset used in the 87U/R and Netgear X4). However, we were able to reach some very helpful engineers at DLink and Netbear.

Both engineers said they've found that QSR1000 would start developing connectivity issues between 70-80° C, with complete failures starting at 90° C. These higher temps were being achieved when the QSR1000 was using the RGMII interface, with temps holding at 70-75° C. When using a PCIe interface, the temps would drop to 55°, an enormous drop. Heat sink was the same in both cases, and is the one used in both the 87U/R and X4.

They also found that when using a Qualcomm chipset for primary processor and 2.4 GHz chipset, power requirements dropped from 13 watts for the 87U/R to 7 watts, with identical wifi range and similar throughput. QSR1000 chipset temps dropped to 50° C. Similar power requirements and temps were seen when using Broadcom instead of the Qualcomm with the QSR1000 and using PCIe interface, so the RGMII interface is involved in someway with the high temps on the Quantenna.

For a comparison, the latest Qualcomm and Broadcom chipsets can take temps up to 115° C before having connectivity issues and 124° C and 127° C respectively for total failure, according to the engineers.

They've also had problems getting maximum temp data from Quantenna and had to do their own experiments to determine max chipset temps, and still have connectivity issues with the QSR1000 even at the lower temps. DLink has no plans to use Quantenna chipsets because of this, and Netgear is re-evaluating using them in the X4 with a possible v2 of the X4 without the Quantenna chips in the near future. The low heat tolerance and poor responsiveness from Quantenna is a big issues with them.

Thought you guys would appreciate the information above.

 

[TheDude54]

How to determin temps?

sorry, I know this has been posted before but I can't find the command(s)... I want to see the temps for my rt-ac87r. Thanks in advance

 

[chele809]

Anyone Knows why App Analysis Only shows General ( in traffic Details. Once I remember it Detailed traffic individual. . NOT as General Please anyone?

 

[oric1]

sorry, I know this has been posted before but I can't find the command(s)... I want to see the temps for my rt-ac87r. Thanks in advance

here you go http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=21702&highlight=qcsapi_sockrpc+get_temperature

 

[richdbenson]

When you set up the second router, under administration setting, keep the 'operation mode' on wireless router mode.

Since upgrading to new FW the configuration has been stable for over 40 hours. The previous config of Router/AP would drop signal after 6 hours and force me to reboot both routers.

Thanks...sorry for the questions but did you mean that it has been up for 40 hours in router to router mode? How did you get the 2nd router to have an IP assigned on the first router. When I switch on my 2nd router and change it to Wireless router mode, I can't seem to get the main router to recognize it.

Could you let me know your settings on the WAN tab and did you enable DHCP on the 2nd router on the LAN tab? How did you assign the AP on the LAN tab on the 2nd router?

 

[scottts]

114C is definitely abnormal. The vast majority of us have 80-90C top with ours (mine sits at 84C right now).

The current heatsink is sufficient, I bet just applying better thermal interface would greatly help.

I don't see how software could resolve the issue. Sounds like a generic level 1 answer to any unexplainable problems to me sadly.

I'm not sure which Quantenna temp is being measured. When I run the qcsapi_sockrpc get_temperature command I get back three temps. temperature_rfic_external always = 0, temperature_rfic_internal = 64.4C at idle (no 5GHz traffic), and temperature_bbic_internal = 70C at idle.

I started a download from my Dish Hopper, the only 5GHz client I had on at the time that ran around 25-30 Mbps for about 40 minutes. I queried the same temps periodically.

The temps rose to and stabilized at temperature_rfic_internal = 70.8C and temperature_bbic_internal = 75C.

It was about 20C in my office at the time. It took nearly 15 minutes for the temps to rise and stabilize. Just by accident my router is supported only in the center of its bottom allowing free flow of air into the bottom vents on the outer 2-3" on both sides.

Running the latest 3885 firmware.

I know this wasn't much load. I've only got two things on my 5GHz, my Dish system and my TV. The 5GHz has been very good to both of these since the latest firmware. My Panasonic TV has been absolutely flawless on 5GHz since I bought the router. I don't think Netflix or VUDU have buffered or reduced resolution once.

For what its worth, maybe I got an 87R that was built OK. Maybe lots of them are OK.

BTW, I design high power LED lighting for a living. We use a thermally conductive "tape" called Bondply to conduct heat from the LEDs to their heatsinks all the time. Some of these materials have fantastic heat transfer. I wouldn't assume the design is deficient because of the use of "tape" alone. Of course there are all kinds of poorly designed products that misuse good materials.

 

[RMerlin]

I'm not sure which Quantenna temp is being measured. When I run the qcsapi_sockrpc get_temperature command I get back three temps. temperature_rfic_external always = 0, temperature_rfic_internal = 64.4C at idle (no 5GHz traffic), and temperature_bbic_internal = 70C at idle.

From what I can guess:

rfic = Radio Frequency integrated circuit

So, rfic_external would be an external sensor (which apparently Asus isn't using in their design), internal would be inside the RF chip. No idea what the bbic is, that was added with SDK 36.7.0.31.

BTW, I design high power LED lighting for a living. We use a thermally conductive "tape" called Bondply to conduct heat from the LEDs to their heatsinks all the time. Some of these materials have fantastic heat transfer. I wouldn't assume the design is deficient because of the use of "tape" alone. Of course there are all kinds of poorly designed products that misuse good materials.

The amount of heat generated by your LEDs is considerably less than what generated by those ICs however. I would suspect that those tapes lose efficiency when you reach a certain amount of heat that needs to be transferred.

 

[RMerlin]

They've also had problems getting maximum temp data from Quantenna and had to do their own experiments to determine max chipset temps

What kind of SOC provider develops products without including thermal information in their datasheets? I find that a bit mind boggling if truly QTN can't provide that critical information to their customers, and they end up having to conduct their own experiments.

QTN isn't exactly a new player in this market despite what users think. From what I've seen, they've been developping business solutions for a few years already. Their QSR1000 just happens to be the first product aimed at the SOHO/home market. So that makes this situation even more surprising to me.

My QTN SOC currently runs at 79C here, but the living room is a bit cool at the moment (reduced heating since I'm not in that room). It reaches 83-84C once the room is up to its normal temperature.

Not surprised at Qualcomm having a better power budget than Broadcom. Qualcomm has pushed the envelope a lot over the years, as they are popular products in smartphones.

 

[scottts]

From what I can guess:

The amount of heat generated by your LEDs is considerably less than what generated by those ICs however. I would suspect that those tapes lose efficiency when you reach a certain amount of heat that needs to be transferred.

You'd be surprised. Some of our LED products conduct over 400 watts of power from LEDs to heatsinks using thermal tape type materials. They are much larger of course than the router. Its really more about power density in the area of heat transfer and less about total power. I agree that the Quantenna design may have higher power density. Cheers.

 

[Richard1864]

What kind of SOC provider develops products without including thermal information in their datasheets? I find that a bit mind boggling if truly QTN can't provide that critical information to their customers, and they end up having to conduct their own experiments.

QTN isn't exactly a new player in this market despite what users think. From what I've seen, they've been developping business solutions for a few years already. Their QSR1000 just happens to be the first product aimed at the SOHO/home market. So that makes this situation even more surprising to me.

My QTN SOC currently runs at 79C here, but the living room is a bit cool at the moment (reduced heating since I'm not in that room). It reaches 83-84C once the room is up to its normal temperature.

Not surprised at Qualcomm having a better power budget than Broadcom. Qualcomm has pushed the envelope a lot over the years, as they are popular products in smartphones.

Quantenna is the first chip company that does NOT make their chip data sheets available to everyone online - they tell you to phone them or email them for that information. I don't understand what's wrong with providing information like max and min temps, data throughout, etc freely online. But it's also interesting that very few networking companies are using their new 5 GHz chipsets in their designs and are instead going towards Qualcomm and Broadcom.

 

[richdbenson]

Thanks...sorry for the questions but did you mean that it has been up for 40 hours in router to router mode? How did you get the 2nd router to have an IP assigned on the first router. When I switch on my 2nd router and change it to Wireless router mode, I can't seem to get the main router to recognize it.

Could you let me know your settings on the WAN tab and did you enable DHCP on the 2nd router on the LAN tab? How did you assign the AP on the LAN tab on the 2nd router?

Steps to set up 2nd router in router to router config instead of AP mode

1) Turn off wireless radio on first router using button on front (this makes it easier to access only 2nd router)
2) Turn on 2nd router and access setup via wireless on 2nd router
3) Skip easy setup
4) Setup wireless radio (it will suggest doing this)
5) Keep 2nd router hooked up to WAN port (if it establishes a subnet of 192.168.2.1 then that is ok)
6) Go to LAN tab and disable DHCP, Setup up 192.168.1.1 as the DNS server and WINS server, Set up 192.168.1.2 as the 2nd router IP address.
7) Enable Static Routes (on Routes subtab)
8) Create a Static Route to 192.168.1.1 via LAN
9) Set Enable WAN, Enable NAT, Enable uPNP to "No"
10) Remove cable from WAN port on 2nd router and plug into LAN port

I'll repost if this setup has any issues with uptime. Based on prior posts, setting up router/router config should allow users to get around the Access Point preconfigured ASUS issues.

Also, there is a bug in setup on the admin tab. You have to set your system time to GMT and then save, after that you can move to your US time zone. The bug is that if you move from default mountain time that DST is not populated in the fields and system will error.