Asus RT-N66U - Looking at retiring the old girl to handle Fiber

[alphamatter]

Wonderful forum, BTW! Wealth of information and mostly easy to find.

I've been keeping my N66U going with Merlin's firmware, currently (380.61), even though I upgraded to Fiber a couple of years ago. Hello, I'm Alphamatter, I'm ashamed, I am a 'Hardware Squeezer' and I admit it. That I've pushed this back so far with it's, Rock solid 'good enough' mentality, is shameful, I know. Because NOW is the time for research and more research before taking the plunge and forking over some cash for new router(s).

I'm looking for your advice, input, feedback, cursing and general and specific knowledge sharing to make an informed choice by collectively picking your brain. For sure, my brain is also easy pickings for you.

Here are some of the Highlights of Existing Network Hardware:
Gigabit Fiber (1,000 Mbit/s)
GS108T (Splits PON into a WAN for RT-N66 and Meraki)
POE Gigabit 8 port Switch
VoIP Business Phones and VPN, point to Point setup on the GS108T.

RT-N66 Handles - WIFI (Would love better/more coverage barely enough even after WIFI boosting)
9000 SQ FT property/1800 SQ FT Home, Sticks and Drywall, 2 story)
Have (2) USB Drives
WiFi Brother Laser Printer

I also take my work to the Back yard with a my 'special' comfy chairs and table for that extra nap time in the PM, under the shade of a huge Pine Tree, you know when the workload becomes too much.

I have considered running a Cat 5e/6 cable to the Back and just adding it to the Network LAN port as an extension of the WIFI signal. I could even repurpose the N66U for this secondary task to cover the Back yard.

I have multiple Roku, Apple, Android devices, Windows Tablets and Laptops(a lone Linux Laptop has been known to live in these parts as well) roaming the homestead and would love Rock solid WIFI. The N66U has been doing a decent job, though, I worry about some Low Wifi zones, Underutilized Speed, as well as the Possibility that this old girl will drop dead, leaving me in WIFI purgatory. (I can still use the WIFI of the Meraki Router, *shutters*)

So, that is my predicament and dilemma. I've loved the Asus Router line, though, I am reluctantly open to blind dates with 'other' Wifi Routers.

I occasionally use the OpenVPN, on my Smartphone and Tablet to access my home network/Drives.

Your thoughts, questions, and ridicule are welcome!

Short list of likable Routers(anything Asus):
D-Link's DIR-879 AC1900
TP-LINK's AC3150 Wireless MU-MIMO Gigabit Router
TP-LINK AC 2600 Wireless Dual Band Gigabit

Oh, and I'm not the 'Friend' that Ramguy posted about earlier... I'm not!!

 

[alphamatter]

Oh, and I CURSE the Name Linksys so you will bring my blood to a boil if you suggest it!

 

[Chris313AllNight]

Depending on your budget, have you thought of looking into the Asus RT-AC3100? Or its 8 port counterpart, the 88U? Since you have a lot of wifi things, you might want to check out the Asus RT-AC5300

 

[alphamatter]

Depending on your budget, have you thought of looking into the Asus RT-AC3100? Or its 8 port counterpart, the 88U? Since you have a lot of wifi things, you might want to check out the Asus RT-AC5300

I do like the RT-AC3100, though, I don't think I'll need the 88U. The AC5300 looks like a crazy, on it's back, Large Spider looking for a tummy rub. Don't like the price of that one, as it blows most of my networking budget out of the water. Other gadgets and cool stuff would have to wait for next budget for network upgrades.
I COULD wait for the other gadgets and get the AC5300. mmmmm....

Either way, I don't have any devices with AC, yet. So, I'm not in a hurry for those hardware specs. I've read that even so, these AC routers will provide a better N network, so, if that's the experience with other users here, sure, AC is the way to go.

I'm also thinking that by extending a LAN cable to the back of the house, installing the RT-N66 at that rear exterior wall, it would provide all the N coverage needed for the back and side yard. So my Replacement Router in the Entertainment area near the front of the house, (current location of the RT-N66U)would not need to be tasked with Wifi Coverage of the whole house and property.

 

[alphamatter]

Also, the Netgear R7000 is looking promising as well, though, it doesn't have the ability to give it the awesome RMerlin touch.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...st-look-netgear-r7000-a-asus-rt-ac68u?start=2

 

[Chris313AllNight]

I do like the RT-AC3100, though, I don't think I'll need the 88U. The AC5300 looks like a crazy, on it's back, Large Spider looking for a tummy rub. Don't like the price of that one, as it blows most of my networking budget out of the water. Other gadgets and cool stuff would have to wait for next budget for network upgrades.
I COULD wait for the other gadgets and get the AC5300. mmmmm....

Either way, I don't have any devices with AC, yet. So, I'm not in a hurry for those hardware specs. I've read that even so, these AC routers will provide a better N network, so, if that's the experience with other users here, sure, AC is the way to go.

I'm also thinking that by extending a LAN cable to the back of the house, installing the RT-N66 at that rear exterior wall, it would provide all the N coverage needed for the back and side yard. So my Replacement Router in the Entertainment area near the front of the house, (current location of the RT-N66U)would not need to be tasked with Wifi Coverage of the whole house and property.

Yes, most go for the 3100 if they don't need the extra 4 ports. I already have a switch so I'd go for the 3100, myself. Yeah, most who saw the 5300 at first made all kinds of fun about it, looking like a facehugger from Aliens. And yes, I agree, if you're looking for an upgrade now, an AC router is the way to go. The 3100 will give you about 940, maybe more if you're lucky. Hell, the 3100 might cover your wifi situation too. If not, your N66U as extender idea sounds great.

And yeah, the Netgear R7000 can't be Merlin'd. I've read about someone who hacked it to be possible, but I'd not recommend it. Wanna use Merlin, get an Asus router and just be done with it and be officially supported.

I look forward to hearing what you do. I have an N66U myself and it'll be a rock for 4 years next April. I'm thinking I'll replace it with a 3100 and be cool for another 4 years or more.

 

[rtn66uftw]

Maybe consider this as well Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X Advanced Gigabit Ethernet Routers and Ubiquiti Unifi UAP-AC-Pro?

 

[alphamatter]

I'm still researching the Ubiquiti that rtn66uftw posted above. I like the UAP-AC-Pro, looks like it will do the work nicely.

I hadn't thought of separating the Wifi with the Router and this can be a positive. However, i found a thought on the UBI Edgerouter that an end user reported: "This is a fantastic router with a steep learning curve. If you have an internet service that delivers more than 400Mbps this is not the router for you. You CAN get upto ~850Mbps WAN under very specific configurations. If you want something that will handle Gigabit WAN and run additional packages you should skip this model."

I DO have a Gigabit WAN... I will continue to look for more info, anyone have any thoughts or experience on these UBI routers?

 

[System Error Message]

What about linksys? Some of their marvell based ones are capable of handling gigabit NAT without requiring hardware NAT.

Some routers are capable of handling gigabit NAT with no hardware acceleration while some require it. Here are some examples.

Needs hardware NAT :
All ubiquiti edgerouters
Almost all consumer routers
Using realtek NICs with low end x86
Most MIPS and broadcom ARM based routers

Doesnt need hardware NAT:
x86
TILEgx (like mikrotik CCRs)
higher end PPCs
GPUs

Still in beta but might work:
Qualcomm IPQs (if they use kraits)

As you can see all the routers that support gigabit NAT easily require skill and effort to setup/configure while the easy ones require hardware acceleration which means there will be drawbacks. Consider the CCR1009 which is far superior to ubiquiti or even some x86 in both NAT and VPN speeds. Like many recent x86 the TileGx has hardware encryption acceleration and the CCR1009 has a silent configuration while supporting speeds faster than the ERPRO without requiring any hardware acceleration while the ERPRO requires hardware acceleration and still cant beat the CCR1009 in speeds. Other than that mikrotik is more focused on being a router so you cant do what you can on pfsense or x86 based solutions but it is much easier to learn than using a linux server from scratch.

Many who use ubiquiti edgerouters will swear by them and try to avoid using features that really show ubiquiti's weakness. Their marketing is blatantly belittling better competitors by marketing their own weakness against the strength of competitors. Needing hardware acceleration is a weakness. Ubiquiti's strength is in the ability to use it as a linux OS by terminal configuration, files/scripts and installing software but speed is not in their blood. They thrive on not giving the relevant information to consumers and consumers only realise it when they actually try QoS and PPPOE. Mikrotik's strength is in their focus in which they can focus on doing router stuff well and providing faster platforms for a low price, their weakness is simply being unable to install other programs on it without some OS hacking.

So my suggestion is, get a mikrotik CCR and you will be happy if you are willing to go through the effort to learn. Since you have fibre optics you can use an SFP module so you can also ditch your modem. Or you can get x86 and use pfsense on it, Intel server NICs suggested because of driver support and better CPU load. Packetshader was an experiment showing how GPUs can accelerate routing.

For most internet users, they require NAT. Ubiquiti only shows their routing speeds on 1 setting whereas mikrotik shows the speeds for various different situations. NAT is basically equivalent to 5-25 firewall rules. Just try using all sorts of rules that help with detection and security on a ubiquiti edgerouter and they will slow to a crawl. Mikrotik also offers layer 2 firewall and NAT which is something that you wont find around except on fully managed switches such as those high end cisco catalyst that allow you to secure your own network and filter it.

 

[sfx2000]

What about linksys? Some of their marvell based ones are capable of handling gigabit NAT without requiring hardware NAT.

Hehe - don't get me started there - great HW on the WRT AC class... only to be impacted by the mess called SmartWiFi - third party FW does help quite a bit, and OpenWRT does very good - but the WiFi drivers are still what many would consider "work in progress"... but from a routing perspective, they are impressive considering what they are...

FWIW - QCA and BRCM are pretty comparable - different means to the same end perhaps, but generally they're both good enough for most - I would actually say the same to a lesser extent for Ralink (now MediaTek) and Realtek based devices.

Moving up - Cavium's are still interesting in some cases - same goes with the PowerPC device.

Then moving up again - we get into Tilera and X86, and there, performance can be very good - although, the SW around these platforms does tend to be less approachable from a lay perspective - it's very good if one has a strong network background, it's a bit obtuse if one does not, even though many do have "wizards" to get things going on a basic level...

 

[alphamatter]

I've worked on Cisco 1700's as well as Linux OS. I can work on Networking I can program and work on with ease.
So, I can work on most anything that you talk about here. I just want to see what options are available to upgrade my network without breaking the bank.

 

[mm2001]

Similar requirements here as sonic.net fibre was just installed today... following along with great interest. Gradually scaling back on geekery in favour of "it just works", so something that has:

* 3-4 gigabit ethernet ports,
* can NAT as much as possible of a 1000mb x 100mb connection
* decent wifi (> 50mbit in "good" conditions is great, though more is better)
* 2-3 SSID support

 

[mm2001]

TL;DR: Will an R7000 be stable? (I haven't had a stock Netgear router in quite a while. )

The Netgear R7000 does seem to hit a lot of the highlights, while still being reasonably priced.

Another factor: stability.

I detest power-cycling devices. I'll put up with a non-consumer setup experience just so I don't have to scratch my head every week or so, hit the screen, curse and then go and power cycle the device (or listen to family members complaining "the internet stopped working").

Hate all you want, but the Meraki gear that I've used since they were a teeny tiny startup, is rock solid in my experience. So I don't want to go backwards in stability from that (but today I discovered my MX60W maxes out WAN-LAN at 100mbit despite the GB ports). I've heard Ubiquiti is pretty good in that respect, and I never had problems with Mikrotik (though setting them up used to be painful).

 

[alphamatter]

Yes, I agree mm2001, Meraki is solid. My beef with the MX60W (That I was issued by one of the companies I work for) is the 100 mbit limitations which basically, cuts my 1 Gig fiber at the knees.
So, I've split my Dark Fiber connection, so that the MX is taking one Public IP address and the RT-N66U is taking another, using VLAN2.

If it wasn't for this data cap of the Meraki Hardware, I would have just used the Meraki as my primary Router and used a Cable run to install my RT-N66U behind it on the LAN and be done with it.

 

[alphamatter]

Microtik Routerboard RB2011UiAS

Is one that I found and love the feature set. Though, the MIPS and 128MB RAM don't seem to be too kosher for a 1 Gig WAN to LAN connection.

This is the other, Microtik router CCR 1009-GS.

I've used Sonic.net as a Service provider Years ago, when they had a kind of Dual DSL connection to boost bandwidth. They were solid service provider, though, sometimes the Last Mile, ATT, was crappy.

 

[mm2001]

Thanks @alphamatter. Interesting overlap!

Fwiw, I looked at the more expensive Meraki gear, just to see, and the newer combo devices do 250Mb. Expensive, still too slow, and I'm no longer really using the shaping and other cool features. The full-on router/switches with no wifi are too pricey. All now clearly targeted at enterprise (but, dang, we had some fun meshing them back when Meraki started!)

I've just plonked down $200 for this combo: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/netgear...lack/9241038.p?id=1219701748142&skuId=9241038 to give it a try for 15 days. I'll see how it goes. I don't strictly need the "DST" add on, but I was intrigued. Apparently it is powerline-based, not a repeater, and has a theoretical gbit capability. If it does even 500Mbit it will be useful in a part of the house that was quite adequate with a 15mbit connection, but now seems woeful (such a nice problem to have!)

I'll report back...

 

[mm2001]

@alphamatter (et al) Here are first impressions of the Netgear R7300DST...

• wow, setup has become sophisticated for home routers. Holds you by the hand without being super annoying - including getting the latest firmware yada yada
• it found the DST automagically (once I plugged the router into the wall and not the UPS)
• LAN performance maxes out around 700-800, as suggested by http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/router-chooser/detail/2327/netgear-r7300dst. I.e. not quite the 950mbit or so suggested by the R7000 or R7500 reviews
• Wi-fi performance next to the router was about 350x100 from my 2013 Macbook Air.
• Wi-Fi coverage is noticeably better elsewhere in the house than my MX60W, and, so, correspondingly is performance. A former 50mbit location is now more like 150mbit
• perhaps because of that improved coverage, I won't be using the DST. It seemed to max out around 20-30mbit -- so I won't plug the Apple TV into it after all, as it likely gets more like 150 now

So... definitely an upgrade from the Meraki MX60W, both in raw ethernet speed (doh) but also for WiFi range (and hence speed).

Next steps... I'll enjoy this over the long weekend, but will likely return it to Best Buy (fingers crossed) and then maybe try an R7000 or R7500. The setup is easy. The speed is fast. The WiFi coverage is strong. If the LAN matched the R7000 or I needed the DST, I'd probably keep the R7300 - but losing that extra 100-200Mbit will nag at me (even though it likely makes little real-world difference!)

Side note: I can't quite get my head around all this MYSSID and MYSSID-5G but I think I've worked it out. As near as I can tell, they force the separate names so that old gear doesn't drag the network down to B/G(/N) speeds. Fair enough. So I'm making my guest/IOT devices use GUESTSSD and having GUESTSSD-5G, but I'm making my private secured network be PRIVATE-2G and PRIVATE for max perf, max compatibility & minimal reconfiguration -- most IOT devices are pretty dumb.

Hope this helps...

 

[sfx2000]

TL;DR: Will an R7000 be stable? (I haven't had a stock Netgear router in quite a while. )

The Netgear R7000 does seem to hit a lot of the highlights, while still being reasonably priced.

Another factor: stability.

Early on - they're were as scary as the rest of the AC1900 Wave 1 class - Netgear has kind of focused on the R7000 in some ways over the long term, and most of the bugs have been worked out of the device - so it's a good recommendation for a home network - and Netgear does have a good 3rd party community built around this device if the factory firmware isn't sufficient for one's needs.

 

[System Error Message]

Well the CCR1009 will have no issues supporting 2Gb/s of NAT with overheads like vlans and PPPOE and other goodies you want to use on the network. You can also use mikrotik's dude server on it as well for network monitoring.

If you dont need all that fancy network features than picking up even an ac1900 router like netgear/asus with hardware acceleration would work.

 

[alphamatter]

I'm looking at WAN-LAN and LAN-WAN throughput as really, this is my primary bottleneck that I just can't get away from with my current RT-N66U, solid, for the most part, yet, unable to handle, Gig WAN speeds from my Dark Fiber.

Yes, I would like my Wifi to have a better/faster coverage. I can focus on that later. For now, I've narrowed it down to WAN speed as my primary objective. I've been considering and comparing other consumer routers as well as the Microtik and Ubiquiti. I'm still looking at the Microtik routers as the Ubiquiti seems to have a about 400 in most cases and max of @ 700 WAN-LAN throughput in a specific case. I don't like that. For the consumer routers(Thanks guys for the posts and sharing your experience and observations! Da best!), These are my top 2.

NETGEAR R7000

OR

TP-Link Archer C7

What do you say to that?

For the OpenVPN Server or 2 USB Network Drives (2.o and 3.o respectively) I can always get something else to get that feature and those drives on my network.

Yes, I don't mind slower speeds on my wifi clients, I have many, but, I want to get the MOST out of my available Fiber Internet speeds as well as my Gig Ethernet Wired Laptops and Devices.

Alphamatter