Asus ZenWifi XT8 strangeness

[Daylight_Invader]

We recently purchased the XT8 which I have to admit I am not that impressed with based on current experiences.

Firstly there appears to be no way to leave the router in full tri-band mode when use use ethernet to pipe data from one node to the next which simply does not make sense.

Wireless performance is woeful. One minute you will get very decent throughput and then a few hours later it is just awful. At first I thought it was the fact I had two nodes, but even turning off the second node and having everything just connect to the single node does not sort out the performance issues (obviously more distant devices suffer, but that bit at least is to be expected). I don't have huge numbers of wireless networks around me so I am surprised things are this poor so quickly.

I have followed the general guidance both recommended here as well as with Asus support and that is to ensure that you do a full reset whenever updating firmware, but this does not solve the issue. For the record, I am on the new 3.0.0.4.386_25524 firmware at the moment and it seems many of you seem to like this new firmware, so again I am at a loss.

Any tips on how to address overall performance issues with the XT8? Also how much spacing should exist between the two nodes? As an FYI, when I did use wireless backhaul (or strange it calls itself fronthaul), the performance was totally pants on the second node.

 

[digits n bits]

We recently purchased the XT8 which I have to admit I am not that impressed with based on current experiences.

Firstly there appears to be no way to leave the router in full tri-band mode when use use ethernet to pipe data from one node to the next which simply does not make sense.

Wireless performance is woeful. One minute you will get very decent throughput and then a few hours later it is just awful. At first I thought it was the fact I had two nodes, but even turning off the second node and having everything just connect to the single node does not sort out the performance issues (obviously more distant devices suffer, but that bit at least is to be expected). I don't have huge numbers of wireless networks around me so I am surprised things are this poor so quickly.

I have followed the general guidance both recommended here as well as with Asus support and that is to ensure that you do a full reset whenever updating firmware, but this does not solve the issue. For the record, I am on the new 3.0.0.4.386_25524 firmware at the moment and it seems many of you seem to like this new firmware, so again I am at a loss.

Any tips on how to address overall performance issues with the XT8? Also how much spacing should exist between the two nodes? As an FYI, when I did use wireless backhaul (or strange it calls itself fronthaul), the performance was totally pants on the second node.

I’d be the first to agree the XT8 is a finicky beast. Setup is important and when you download new firmware reset the router and all nodes with the WPS-power button method instead of the reset button in the web GUI or the app.

May want to describe your setup method you’re using from start to finish. I’ve got my nodes approximately 35 apart and I get a -62db signal on the 5ghz2 backhaul band. I have a love-hate relationship with the XT8, while it’s great when it’s working it’s a challenge keeping it that way but it is getting better stability wise.

 

[Daylight_Invader]

I assume you mean the reset where you place a pin into the reset hole at the bottom, hold until the amber light flashes and then leave it a bit, turn it off and then back on. That is at least the method I use unless you tell me there is another one which involves the WPS button instead. I do this to both devices before setting up again.

My method otherwise tends to involve setting up first node totally and leaving second off, before finally allowing them to pair and making a few final adjustments.

At the moment I am using Smart Connect, but I think based on what I am reading on this forum I should probably separate my 2.4G and 5G1/2 bands off to separate networks. Will make 2.4G for my IoT 802.11g network legacy devices, 5G-1 for some legacy 802.11n and 802.11ac devices, and leave 5G-2 for my 802.11ax devices. Doing a full separation might overcome some of the strange bios behaviour around backhaul/fronthaul.

Smart connect however really should be able to sort this out for you!

 

[digits n bits]

I assume you mean the reset where you place a pin into the reset hole at the bottom, hold until the amber light flashes and then leave it a bit, turn it off and then back on. That is at least the method I use unless you tell me there is another one which involves the WPS button instead. I do this to both devices before setting up again.

My method otherwise tends to involve setting up first node totally and leaving second off, before finally allowing them to pair and making a few final adjustments.

At the moment I am using Smart Connect, but I think based on what I am reading on this forum I should probably separate my 2.4G and 5G1/2 bands off to separate networks. Will make 2.4G for my IoT 802.11g network legacy devices, 5G-1 for some legacy 802.11n and 802.11ac devices, and leave 5G-2 for my 802.11ax devices. Doing a full separation might overcome some of the strange bios behaviour around backhaul/fronthaul.

Smart connect however really should be able to sort this out for you!

Use the WPS and power button reset method instead of the pin method on everything. Also setup the router and node together through the app instead of setup the router and then setup the node after, that could be why you’re having issues. I keep the 2.4 and 5ghz bands separate also but I leave the 5ghz2 band for backhaul only. I only connect AC and AX clients to the 5ghz1 band and everything else that doesn’t move on 2.4ghz. I don’t use smart connect it isint that smart and I end up with a mishmash of connections. Right now I’m about 14 hours and everything is good so far on the latest full reset. That being said if it goes down again it’s heading back to Asus and I’m done with mesh systems.

 

[digits n bits]

Use the WPS and power button reset method instead of the pin method on everything. Also setup the router and node together through the app instead of setup the router and then setup the node after, that could be why you’re having issues. I keep the 2.4 and 5ghz bands separate also but I leave the 5ghz2 band for backhaul only. I only connect AC and AX clients to the 5ghz1 band and everything else that doesn’t move on 2.4ghz. I don’t use smart connect it isint that smart and I end up with a mishmash of connections. Right now I’m about 14 hours and everything is good so far on the latest full reset. That being said if it goes down again it’s heading back to Asus and I’m done with mesh systems.

Well that didn’t last long now I’ve got short disconnects both wired and WiFi about every two hours or so. Lasts about half a second, no lights go out and the node stays connected. Time to break out the RT-AX58U’s again until this gets figured out or my wife and kids will kill me.

 

[Steve L]

I still can't figure out why my 2.4ghz network is so rubbish on the XT8 either.
I've tried tweaking most of the settings (wireless tab and professional) I can (to the point where older devices are unable to connect) and numerous factory resets.
No matter what settings I have, after a reboot a speedtest on the 2.4ghz is max 29-30mbps when I'm next to the router (or away from it).
After several hours the same test will yield anything from 8-12mbps at a very jumpy, variable rate.

Switch same device to 5ghz and speed test, smooth and stable as always.
Rebooting the router can bring it back to the 29-30mbps but even then it still seems to be a rubbish speed, I'm testing on a samsung galaxy S10.
Unfortunately devices like the nest hello doorbell (which need to have a good connection) will not go onto the 5ghz band because it's an outdoor device - so annoying!
Tired of the 'your camera has been offline for 10 minutes' notifications, and the family wrath that goes with it - this never happened on my old Asus router, so this 'upgrade' is causing me some grief!

The latest firmware has improved the node stability a lot (no more blue flashing light) but sadly I'm far from happy with it on the whole.
If I could get my 2.4ghx wifi stable, anda bit faster, I'd be much happier!

 

[OzarkEdge]

If I could get my 2.4ghx wifi stable, anda bit faster, I'd be much happier!

Are you using USB 3.0 or other cordless peripherals nearby that could be interfering with the 2.4 WLAN?

Tried other 2.4 channels?

OE

 

[Steve L]

Are you using USB 3.0 or other cordless peripherals nearby that could be interfering with the 2.4 WLAN?

Tried other 2.4 channels?

OE

Thanks for the reply!

I have tried other channels, and used a "Wifi Analyser" app on my phone. I see neighbours wifi on channels 1, 6 and 11 - but they do appear and disappear (not overly strong).
I'm currently on channel 8 (the others on 6 and 11 had a lower strength) and I've also tried 'auto'.

I also tried switching off my Sonos speakers the other day as I noticed from the wireless log that they only support wireless G, but it didn't make any difference.

Not using anything in the USB sockets, I've disabled as much as you can of the 'AI Cloud' stuff on the router.

The only thing I do have nearby is a tado dongle hanging out of the back of the router, which apparently runs on 868mhz - I may try using a longer cable on that and see if anything changes. But the speed is the same when connected to the mesh node, and there is nothing near that one.

Another odd thing last night - as I was heading to bed, I checked to see which node the nest doorbell was connected to.

Background: I switched off the mesh node, added a roaming block list entry for the nest, then powered the node back on. The previous night the camera was offline for 4-5 hours which defeats the point... and I suspected it had connected to the mesh node downstairs overnight and got disconnected somehow. But I'm still guessing.​

After sticking to the main router all day, it had jumped over to the mesh node at some point in the evening ad was offline again - I couldn't be bothered to head back down and switch off the mesh node, so from the mobile app I chose the 'remove node' option, thinking i'd deal with it another day. Camera back online again, only the main router showing in the app.

In the morning I checked, and the AI mesh node had rejoined, and devices were connected to it and still working - not sure if that's expected behaviour but it seemed odd to me! I was expecting to have to set it back up. Anyways the nest doorbell has been online all day, except for 2 blips each of about 2 minutes long.
But the speed is still no higher than 30mbps, it feels like a software thing as the 5ghz is super smooth ad reliable, but I just don't know.

Is anyone elses 2.4ghz speeds way better than 30mbps on the zenwifi ax?
I've just noticed in the speedtest app that when I test on 5ghz i get jitter of 1ms, but on the 2.4ghz I get 55ms .. does that mean anything?

 

[Daylight_Invader]

I can't speak for the 2.4 ghz bands as they in my case are really low priority. The testing I have done to date seemed to show I could get 50mbps fairly easy even with 12+ hours or more of uptime. I'm more worried about the 5 ghz bands.

FWIW, since splitting the wifi network into three networks, leaving IoT on 2.4, n/ac devices on 5-1, and ax devices on 5-2 has definitely made a huge difference. That said, the speeds are not perfect. Even a wifi 6 device 2 meters from the node does not necessarily hit my current internet connection max of 350mbps.

Also the main node really hangs on to devices, making roaming onto the secondary node even when it is physically closer hard. I've tried adjusting the 'roaming assistant' parameter, but it is effectively useless. Other threads on this forum seem to suggest others have also found this parameter does effectively nothing.

Lots of other weird things too like devices showing in the connection list which are physically attached to the primary node showing as connected to the secondary node etc. The fact that part of the router screens suggest 5-2 is a dedicated backhaul channel when it is not shows that this is firmware at it's poorest. I get the impression this latest firmware despite being probably better than the previous versions is still really is a beta firmware at best.

 

[Scottp]

I get 25-30mbps on the mesh addon router and 55-60mbps on the main router on 2.4 band, that is not much below my isp speed. I have quite a few iot devices based on esp8266 and esp32 and a legacy internet radio streamer was on, i think thats why speed is down on one of them. Jitter varies between 1 and 10ms. I have ethernet backhaul i have exposed the 5g-2 as at times 5g-1 can be disappointing 5g_2 is faster, again probably down to legacy devices including google home mini. Stability seems good though, dont glitch out much. I use a single ssid with smart connect, but i set up some guest ssid to force one band or the other for testing. Have about 30 wireless devices and another ten or so wired. With this many devices am am happy with stability over speed. I have avoided poking about with settings as they are still quite new. I use auto channels, they move channels from time to time and there is a lot of neighbour wifi so i just let it do its thing.

 

[mlai]

Would you by chance have your XT8s in AIMesh configuration instead of individual APs? I used mine in AIMesh configurations for a while and decided that they were trash, and reset each of them into individual APs for more control.

When the nodes are in AIMesh mode, I have no control whatsoever on each of the nodes' advanced parameters, most importantly, transmit power and the individual wifi channels. For roaming, bear in mind that IT IS THE CLIENT THAT ULTIMATELY CONTROL roaming behaviour (pardon all caps, but it is important to highlight.) The client decides to roam based on its own roaming preference (on Intel drivers, roaming aggressiveness) , and then on signal strength. Since, in AIMesh mode, ASUS doesn't optimize individual nodes channels and transmit power strength, it frequently results in sticky clients in dense nodes configuration. In individual AP modes, I can put the nodes on different channels (which is also important), and adjust their power individually (most important) to entice clients to roam. Once I do that, and a proper site survey to optimize individual nodes power transmission, I have very good results in my clients roaming between APs, even mixing XT8s with TP-Link Archer AX6000, and a Netgear EAX80 in my apartment........

But different channels, and optimizing individual AP transmit powers is way more important than the roam assist technologies in these Asus APs in my experience, and in AIMesh modes, there is no way to individually adjust them for different nodes. And AIMesh does not do it automatically either (Linksys Velop does by the way). So I generally stay away from AIMesh and run mine as individual APs.......

PS. Running XT8s in individual AP modes does kill the 802.11k support for the XT8s (not sure about 802.11v), but in my experience, my clients (which I have more than 30 of them) roams just fine (Netflix, youtube not dropping, voip sip calls not dropping, video conference not disconnecting.... etc).

I can't speak for the 2.4 ghz bands as they in my case are really low priority. The testing I have done to date seemed to show I could get 50mbps fairly easy even with 12+ hours or more of uptime. I'm more worried about the 5 ghz bands.

FWIW, since splitting the wifi network into three networks, leaving IoT on 2.4, n/ac devices on 5-1, and ax devices on 5-2 has definitely made a huge difference. That said, the speeds are not perfect. Even a wifi 6 device 2 meters from the node does not necessarily hit my current internet connection max of 350mbps.

Also the main node really hangs on to devices, making roaming onto the secondary node even when it is physically closer hard. I've tried adjusting the 'roaming assistant' parameter, but it is effectively useless. Other threads on this forum seem to suggest others have also found this parameter does effectively nothing.

Lots of other weird things too like devices showing in the connection list which are physically attached to the primary node showing as connected to the secondary node etc. The fact that part of the router screens suggest 5-2 is a dedicated backhaul channel when it is not shows that this is firmware at it's poorest. I get the impression this latest firmware despite being probably better than the previous versions is still really is a beta firmware at best.

 

[samep]

I made the mistake of checking out the 5G-2 controls in the Asus mobile app for Android after update said bug fixes. It's still broken. But I didn't realize the app kicked me back to radio backhaul until next day.

My Logitech Harmony hubs started playing whack-a-mole with connection to the Asus 2.4G band. This was the reason I switched from Netgear Orbi; it seemed the issue with my Orbi was that the 2.4G radio got too weak to hold a connection; at any rate, all the connections on that band would super slow down to 1 Mbps.

Anyway, this feeling was all too familiar and frustrating to deal with. One hub would connect and the other wouldn't. I looked at the mobile app and saw they were both connecting to same node. This isn't right! They should connect to closest node; the actual rooms they're located in have the XT8 nodes. Roam blocking only works when it's connected to proper node; blocking the roam won't mean it connects to nearest node unless it's already there when roaming is blocked. Several reboots and I couldn't get one node to connect to nearest node?! Nonsense!

Finally prioritizing Ethernet in the web portal got the node to default back to Ethernet. But the Logitech Harmony hub near router was still connecting to farthest node. I did set the roaming assist to account for this; it should roam back to nearest node. I called it a day and decided to wait. Next day? It's not connected at all. Did I forget the roaming block? No it's not enabled for that device.

I think it's Logitech's fault but trying to reconnect the WiFi to that had the Logitech servers timing out or even saying my WiFi password was incorrect. Very odd; I finally noticed the hub state wasn't even in correct mode to transfer the backup files when downloaded; Harmony app would just randomly restart the whole process from step one with hub not even ready. I've got notes from the last fiasco I should have reviewed because they had me skipping steps and placing hub into pairing mode manually. They could just update the app and verify states of device.

I digress. To get out of this silly loop and whack-a-mole game, I just connected the Harmony hub near router to the guest 2.4G and quit. Not to mention that meant starting all over from scratch with Harmony hub and connection. Very strange that the Harmony hubs were connected properly- day one and this issue seemed to be a passing painful memory but came back with a vengeance.

Ask Harmony support about this issue. First thing they say it's we don't support mesh routers. Next they'll say separate the 2.4G band from 5G. One of the reasons I left Netgear Orbi was the firmware lacking the user settings in menu; Asus doesn't require users to use telnet for that.

But it's looking like I may have to separate the bands and may even go with setting up individual APs. I don't want to do this but I'll consider it if the Harmony hubs start acting up again.

I played around with smart connect, roaming assist and roam blocking. But I think it may come down to the roaming of the Harmony hubs isn't playing nice. Not intelligent roaming; maybe it just faulted the WiFi connection and dumped it as invalid but why say my password was invalid? Maybe just the ready status issues.

Any thoughts on these? I'd also like WiFi calling on my Pixel 4 on TMobile to work better when pacing the house on hold. Some adjustments helped but I cannot recall what I did. But I still suspect the 524 update and the dysfunctional Android mobile app contributed very much to this issue with Harmony hubs.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Daylight_Invader]

Would you by chance have your XT8s in AIMesh configuration instead of individual APs? I used mine in AIMesh configurations for a while and decided that they were trash, and reset each of them into individual APs for more control.

When the nodes are in AIMesh mode, I have no control whatsoever on each of the nodes' advanced parameters, most importantly, transmit power and the individual wifi channels. For roaming, bear in mind that IT IS THE CLIENT THAT ULTIMATELY CONTROL roaming behaviour (pardon all caps, but it is important to highlight.) The client decides to roam based on its own roaming preference (on Intel drivers, roaming aggressiveness) , and then on signal strength. Since, in AIMesh mode, ASUS doesn't optimize individual nodes channels and transmit power strength, it frequently results in sticky clients in dense nodes configuration. In individual AP modes, I can put the nodes on different channels (which is also important), and adjust their power individually (most important) to entice clients to roam. Once I do that, and a proper site survey to optimize individual nodes power transmission, I have very good results in my clients roaming between APs, even mixing XT8s with TP-Link Archer AX6000, and a Netgear EAX80 in my apartment........

But different channels, and optimizing individual AP transmit powers is way more important than the roam assist technologies in these Asus APs in my experience, and in AIMesh modes, there is no way to individually adjust them for different nodes. And AIMesh does not do it automatically either (Linksys Velop does by the way). So I generally stay away from AIMesh and run mine as individual APs.......

PS. Running XT8s in individual AP modes does kill the 802.11k support for the XT8s (not sure about 802.11v), but in my experience, my clients (which I have more than 30 of them) roams just fine (Netflix, youtube not dropping, voip sip calls not dropping, video conference not disconnecting.... etc).

Which mode have you selected to change it from AI Mesh to just an AP? I don’t think I saw a real mode to do this!

Also what channels/bands config are you using between different APs?

 

[mlai]

Which mode have you selected to change it from AI Mesh to just an AP? I don’t think I saw a real mode to do this!

Also what channels/bands config are you using between different APs?

If the nodes are in AI Mesh modes already, your best bet is to reset the mesh nodes and do not use Add Mesh Nodes when you set them up. Set them up as individual AI Mesh Routers, and change the nodes afterwards to operate in AP mode instead of router modes.

I am running my nodes in AP modes, 2GHz in 20MHz bandwidth for IOT devices, 5G-1 in 80MHz set in 36 channel as that's the only choice I have for AC/low usage AX devices, and 5G-2 in 80MHz mode for regular devices (my location gets weather radar interference which causes DFS events for channel 120-128 so making 160MHz unusable......)

As for actual channels used, point kinda moot as each location should choose channel based on site survey, meaning what channel makes sense at that location and making sure that your own APs do not interfere with each other (tune transmit power, placement, and different channels).

And AI mesh does NOT do these for you, that's why it sucks real bad......

All these seems a lot of work, and it is. But this is what differentiates from a barely working wireless setup to a very satisfactory wireless setup.......

 

[Daylight_Invader]

If the nodes are in AI Mesh modes already, your best bet is to reset the mesh nodes and do not use Add Mesh Nodes when you set them up. Set them up as individual AI Mesh Routers, and change the nodes afterwards to operate in AP mode instead of router modes.

I am running my nodes in AP modes, 2GHz in 20MHz bandwidth for IOT devices, 5G-1 in 80MHz set in 36 channel as that's the only choice I have for AC/low usage AX devices, and 5G-2 in 80MHz mode for regular devices (my location gets weather radar interference which causes DFS events for channel 120-128 so making 160MHz unusable......)

As for actual channels used, point kinda moot as each location should choose channel based on site survey, meaning what channel makes sense at that location and making sure that your own APs do not interfere with each other (tune transmit power, placement, and different channels).

And AI mesh does NOT do these for you, that's why it sucks real bad......

All these seems a lot of work, and it is. But this is what differentiates from a barely working wireless setup to a very satisfactory wireless setup.......

You definitely have taken the extreme configuration route, and yes, you will have sacrificed a lot of the promised wifi 6 goodness by taking this route (although this of course assumes that the new functionality offered actually works, which as pretty much all of us on here will attest, is probably quite debatable!). Going down route of using different channels etc, does suggest you could probably could have gotten more by buying a single router and a few ubiquity ac based APs. In fact I am quite tempted to return this product and take exactly this route myself...

As everyone has said, Asus support is bottom of the barrel. You get a response a week later and clearly the agent just wants to close a call and not understand the problem. For those of us who are a little more technical, this is extremely frustrating.

 

[munnmann]

What boggles my mind is how many IOT devices have so poorly implemented wifi. No matter how good the router is (and I agree Asus has some challenges), it still comes down to the weakest device on the network. In my case, there are 3 devices that always cause challenges. The worst is the Chamberlin MyQ garage hub, second is the Vocolink Outlet adapters and third is the harmony Hub. The only way I have found to get them to work in my mesh system (AX1100 as main, 2 Xt-8's as mesh points) is to force channel 6 on 2.4 (neighbors be dammed I'm pushing full power), use 20mhz channel width, and turn off every smart feature (beam forming, roam assist, airtime fairness, MIMO and AX mode) and turn off WPS on 2.4. I get the channel 6, as there really are only the 3 channels in 2.4 and everything else is sort of an overlap, so forcing the middle should give peak antenna performance. In my case to test if everything had to be disabled or just a few Asus settings, I started with everything off, setup pings to all my "smart" devices, and watched logs in ausus and pings for around 48 hrs. With no drops, I tried each smart feature one at a time. No matter what, one of the devices would drop off line when I did, so my 2.4 is just for dumb (smart) IOT devices.

 

[Daylight_Invader]

What boggles my mind is how many IOT devices have so poorly implemented wifi. No matter how good the router is (and I agree Asus has some challenges), it still comes down to the weakest device on the network. In my case, there are 3 devices that always cause challenges. The worst is the Chamberlin MyQ garage hub, second is the Vocolink Outlet adapters and third is the harmony Hub. The only way I have found to get them to work in my mesh system (AX1100 as main, 2 Xt-8's as mesh points) is to force channel 6 on 2.4 (neighbors be dammed I'm pushing full power), use 20mhz channel width, and turn off every smart feature (beam forming, roam assist, airtime fairness, MIMO and AX mode) and turn off WPS on 2.4. I get the channel 6, as there really are only the 3 channels in 2.4 and everything else is sort of an overlap, so forcing the middle should give peak antenna performance. In my case to test if everything had to be disabled or just a few Asus settings, I started with everything off, setup pings to all my "smart" devices, and watched logs in ausus and pings for around 48 hrs. With no drops, I tried each smart feature one at a time. No matter what, one of the devices would drop off line when I did, so my 2.4 is just for dumb (smart) IOT devices.

Completely agree. IoT probably has a decade still to catch up to modern standards. I don't think you necessary however need to force a specific channel - you just need to make sure the extended channels on the 2.4 band that only some countries provide access to are excluded. It's basically a set to lowest common denominator type job.

 

[munnmann]

I chose ch 6 to force my system to. I could have also chosen 1 or 11, but I pulled out my Oscium WIPRI, and did a scan. There was one HP Printer from the neighbor (why those things blast wifi at high power still baffles me), and a weak signal from an xfinity router on 6. My neighbor was already on 11. As soon as I fired up on 6, xfinity moved and so did the HP printer, so at least they have some sort of auto scan for best channels. Even so 6 would be the best choice in case of poorly implemented antennas in IOT devices. Being in the center of the frequency range does provide some modicum of advantage against a bad design and implementation.

 

[Daylight_Invader]

Other weird things I have now noticed is that with this latest firmware, if you select your 5-2 band for example to be AX only, N and AC devices can still connect.

It really does feel like Asus has done zero in terms of testing.

 

[Daylight_Invader]

I love today's response from Asus CS. Basically they cannot be bothered to troubleshoot:

ASUS: 'You might be correct this might be a firmware bug. I can suggest you to update to the latest one and see if the problems occur again.
If you continue to experience the issues again I can advise to install a bit of an older one.
Here is the link for the Firmware updates : https://www.asus.com/Networking/ZenWiFi-AX-XT8/HelpDesk_BIOS/
If after that there are still the same issues then it should be a hardware error somewhere and i can only suggest a replacement unit through the place of purchase.'

I did tell that what firmware I was using. Just such a poor response.