AX86u 160 mhz

[willyburz]

It's local interference from neighbors. You cant do anything but force 36-64 if you want 160mhz.

No because of two things...
1. I use an analyzer to choose the lowest interference area and what has been around me has not significantly changed.
2. it has auto channeled and I have manual channeled into dfs channels where I am super clean and it dumps to 80hz as well.

 

[jsz]

No because of two things...
1. I use an analyzer to choose the lowest interference area and what has been around me has not significantly changed.
2. it has auto channeled and I have manual channeled into dfs channels where I am super clean and it dumps to 80hz as well.

The analyzer won't really matter in that regard as most modern hardware can switch back and forth to self adjust. AKA "Auto" on Asus routers. The router is auto detecting the best SNR sensitivity when choosing its main channel.

I don't know what you mean by auto channeled? If DFS 52-64 his radar, it will auto move you into 36-48 (UNII-1) or 149-161 (UNII-3)

You can keep static 36-48 with 160mhz bonding enabled.

 

[willyburz]

Where I live and what I see on an analyzer has not changed significantly in years, let alone the db's being high enough across all those channels to do anything, which is why on auto it just rando grabs a channel damned be a better option...I notice the next two closest neighbors will auto off from my router, which is why I would manually choose the channel historically, same thing with my 2.4 channel. The last stable 160hz I know I got, was the January 2022 firmware.

 

[willyburz]

The analyzer won't really matter in that regard as most modern hardware can switch back and forth to self adjust. AKA "Auto" on Asus routers. The router is auto detecting the best SNR sensitivity when choosing its main channel.

I don't know what you mean by auto channeled? If DFS 52-64 his radar, it will auto move you into 36-48 (UNII-1) or 149-161 (UNII-3)

You can keep static 36-48 with 160mhz bonding enabled.

I know I normally have a channel or two in the 36-48 where I should not have any issues then I manually set it. Last night when I wiped again, and started it. I left it auto ch and 20/40/80/160 and kept allow 160 checked up, and it went to 161...so I just did a simple router reboot and it went to ch 120 where there was nothing anywhere on or near that channel. I wake up this morning and check, it's freaking on 161 again and I see plenty of channels where interference would not force it to move to a non 160hz capable channel?!?!?!?!? I'm not in an apartment yo...W T to the F

 

[sfx2000]

I still suspect the reasons some can't do 160 MHz reliably are the result of environment and fiddling with the settings.

I'm in an area where I do get a lot of DFS hits, so 160 isn't really an option...

 

[jsz]

I know I normally have a channel or two in the 36-48 where I should not have any issues then I manually set it. Last night when I wiped again, and started it. I left it auto ch and 20/40/80/160 and kept allow 160 checked up, and it went to 161...so I just did a simple router reboot and it went to ch 120 where there was nothing anywhere on or near that channel. I wake up this morning and check, it's freaking on 161 again and I see plenty of channels where interference would not force it to move to a non 160hz capable channel?!?!?!?!? I'm not in an apartment yo...W T to the F

Yes.. 160mhz enabled will not keep it in the 160mhz range on ASUS routers, but whatever is "better" overall in the main two UNII blocks. There's only two main 80mhz blocks without involving DFS. 36-48 and 149-161.. AKA UNII-1+3.

It's more than likely to default to either UNII-1 or UNII-3 since these have higher power output over DFS channels which are FCC limited to 250mW... hence why your channel moved from 120>161.

Reformatting/defaulting the router and leaving it on AUTO will generally bounce between the main 80mhz configs. For the router to stay on DFS, it has to be significantly congested.. Such as a dense apartment or condo.. or homes very close together.

DFS can also cause issues with certain clients such as Roku devices that do not support it. (I think its avoidable if using a 160mhz block with a main 36-48 config that extends into 52-64). Thats aside from being in an area where local radar/govt can knock you off.

Again, just leave it on a manual channel. AUTO will keep bouncing back to the UNII-3 block in your case. It's possible some neighbors have devices that are just in range and 149-161 is cleaner. WIFI is one of those things that can be very RNG... Kitchen appliances will also typically block and degrade signal.

If you don't want to worry bout signal degradation, but another router for wired backhaul.. or something triband that supports ASUS DWB. my2c.


PS: WIFI 6E/5G UNII4 is suppose to solve this issue, but clients are stagnated. Most developers rather buy last gen AC/N hardware at lower cost from distributors. Updating clients to support UNII-4 seems to be on the backburner too. Only really see it updated in mesh devices such as the 2019 ASUS XT8.

A lot of 6E router are also low power.. which seems very odd given the 6Ghz spectrum is innately weaker than 5Ghz.. UNII4.. which is basically high 5G/low 6Ghz has an overpowered FCC limit in the 4W range though.. lol

Again, clients are very limited. I blame the industry.

 

[willyburz]

I sat and worked the analyzer for awhile as usual, manual locked at 48, and still have 20/40/80/160 and check up 160hz as always, router just lives at 80hz.

PS.
There is NO way that auto channel is programmed worth a shirt. It's so random in where it goes, compared to what you see when you monitor an analyzer. Straight clown show.

 

[jsz]

I sat and worked the analyzer for awhile as usual, manual locked at 48, and still have 20/40/80/160 and check up 160hz as always, router just lives at 80hz.

PS.
There is NO way that auto channel is programmed worth a shirt. It's so random in where it goes, compared to what you see when you monitor an analyzer. Straight clown show.

Are you sure you have a 160mhz client? If you're talking about WIFI analyizer in ASUS routers it only shows 80mhz wide channels...This is likely the case for any 3rd party app too.

The only way to confirm 160mhz functionality is on a desktop with an intel AX 2XX/4XX card. You should also be fairly close to router as PHY at distance will not have a max connection speed. 2x2 client = 2400mbps.

Alternatively you can go into your router > go to system log>>wireless log and it will show current specifications.

HE Capable:
Chanspec: 5GHz channel 42 80MHz (0xe02a)
Primary channel: 36
HT Capabilities: 40Mhz SGI20 SGI40
Supported HT MCS : 0-31
Supported VHT MCS:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
Supported HE MCS:
80 Mhz:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
160 Mhz:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11

chanspec shows 80mhz on AX routers because most clients use 80mhz bonding, but supports 160mhz on intel clients and or alternative options.

The only time i've seen chanspec display 160mhz is on a BCM4336E based router with 160mhz capability in 80+80 mode.. IE GT-AC2900.. grant this is a worse option as it disables the radio into 2x2 + 2x2 mode across a 36-64... Meaning 80mhz clients get screwed @ distance relatively speaking.. as the client only "sees and grabs" from a 2x2 broadcast.

 

[willyburz]

Are you sure you have a 160mhz client? If you're talking about WIFI analyizer inASUS routers it only shows 80mhz wide channels...

The only way to confirm 160mhz functionality is on a desktop with AX2XX/4XX card. You should also be fairly close to router as PHY at distance will not show max 2.4mbps.

Yes, I have 5 160hz AX capable clients...Pixel phone with analyzer app will show you the correct information, WiFiAnalyzer is damn rocksolid and what I use, as are others. It'll break down all, show you what is bonded and the Mbps of said channel in regards to what is bonded and strength, versus all others hitting it under the access points tab, the channel graph will also channel graph 20-160 over the spectrum, frequency windows, security of all, hardware tag, strength, and channel ratings, etc.

 

[jsz]

Yes, I have 5 160hz AX capable clients...Pixel phone with analyzer app will show you the correct information, WiFiAnalyzer is damn rocksolid and what I use, as are others. It'll break down all, show you what is bonded and the Mbps of said channel in regards to what is bonded and strength, versus all others hitting it under the access points tab, the channel graph will also channel graph 20-160 over the spectrum, frequency windows, security of all, hardware tag, strength, and channel ratings, etc.

The only thing I can think of is radar is being detected on 52-64, preventing you from accessing these channels. Theres no other reason.

 

[willyburz]

The only thing I can think of is radar is being detected on 52-64, preventing you from accessing these channels. Theres no other reason.

I hear you, possible...BUT nothing in my area has changed, so it's essentially radar that just started after the January firmware. That's why it's just odd overall. I got the router early on when it first came out, so I guess I'm basing my wtf glitch on something on the backend in the firmware making it wierd. I've had 160hz maxed out for it's lifetime until the spring or summer update, can't member when those were.

 

[jsz]

I hear you, possible...BUT nothing in my area has changed, so it's essentially radar that just started after the January firmware. That's why it's just odd overall. I got the router early on when it first came out, so I guess I'm basing my wtf glitch on something on the backend in the firmware making it wierd. I've had 160hz maxed out for it's lifetime until the spring or summer update, can't member when those were.

It's just very odd.. I don't think its a hardware issue, but you should try an identical model to make sure.

RADAR detection would explain why the router keeps getting reset though.

 

[bbunge]

Thought I would do a test and capture Wireless Log data to show how my AX86U is working for me. This was done with default WIFI settings and DFS not enabled.
The first shot is from first thing this morning when no 160 MHz clients have connected.

SSID: "xxxxxx"
noise: -87 dBm Channel: 44/80
BSSID: 3C:7C:3F:E1:EB:54 Capability: ESS RRM
Supported Rates: [ 6(b) 9 12 18 24(b) 36 48 54 ]
HE Capable:
Chanspec: 5GHz channel 42 80MHz (0xe22a)
Primary channel: 44


Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode : AP Only

DFS status: state IDLE time elapsed 0ms radar channel cleared by DFS channel 44/160 (0xEA32)

Stations List
----------------------------------------
idx MAC Associated Authorized RSSI PHY PSM SGI STBC MUBF NSS BW Tx rate Rx rate Connect Time
4C:82:CF9:xx:xx Yes Yes -61dBm n No Yes No No 2 40M 270M 300M 06:29:48
18:4E:CB:C4:xx:xx Yes Yes -76dBm ac Yes Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 390M 6M 10:13:19
08:AA:55:08:xx:xx Yes Yes -59dBm ac Yes Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 390M 6M 12:26:26
EC:CE7:35:xx:xx Yes Yes -61dBm ac No Yes No No 1 80M 433.3M 433.3M 12:31:42
F0:B51:A1:xx:xx Yes Yes -52dBm n Yes Yes No No 1 40M 135M 6M 12:58:33
B8:27:EB:62:xx:xx Yes Yes -47dBm ac No Yes No No 1 80M 433.3M 24M 12:59:54
38:817:3D:xx:xx Yes Yes -70dBm n Yes Yes No No 1 40M 150M 6M 13:00:17


In all fairness I need to say that after I had captured the first data we had a three hour power failure. A car hit a pole and had power off to 1/3 of our county.

Next, with the power back on, two 160 MHz clients connected. The top AC and AX clients. At this point RADAR had been detected.

SSID: "xxxxxx"
noise: -88 dBm Channel: 36/80
BSSID: 3C:7C:3F:E1:EB:54 Capability: ESS RRM
Supported Rates: [ 6(b) 9 12 18 24(b) 36 48 54 ]
HE Capable:
Chanspec: 5GHz channel 42 80MHz (0xe02a)
Primary channel: 36


Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode : AP Only

DFS status: state IDLE time elapsed 150ms radar channel cleared by DFS channel 36/160 (0xE832)



Stations List
----------------------------------------
idx MAC Associated Authorized RSSI PHY PSM SGI STBC MUBF NSS BW Tx rate Rx rate Connect Time
4C:03:4F:9B:xx:xx Yes Yes -58dBm ac No Yes Yes Yes 2 80M 866.7M 866.7M 00:04:23
94:EA:32:53:xx:xx Yes Yes -65dBm ax Yes Yes No No 2 80M 1201.0M 24M 00:27:18
4C:82:CF9:xx:xx Yes Yes -67dBm n No Yes No No 2 40M 270M 300M 00:35:28
EC:CE7:35:xx:xx Yes Yes -62dBm ac Yes Yes No No 1 80M 390M 24M 00:43:27
44:61:32:E9:xx:xx Yes Yes -57dBm ac No Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 390M 6M 01:00:36
18:4E:CB:C4:xx:xx Yes Yes -71dBm ac Yes Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 390M 6M 01:01:19
F0:B51:A1:xx:xx Yes Yes -54dBm n Yes Yes No No 1 40M 135M 6M 01:01:26
08:AA:55:08:xx:xx Yes Yes -69dBm ac Yes Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 433.3M 6M 01:02:27
2C:1F:23:E3:xx:xx Yes Yes -54dBm n Yes Yes No No 1 40M 135M 24M 01:02:43
B8:27:EB:62:xx:xx Yes Yes -47dBm ac No Yes No No 1 80M 390M 390M 01:03:13
38:817:3D:xx:xx Yes Yes -69dBm n Yes Yes No No 1 40M 135M 6M 01:03:43


Radar cleared and the two clients are connected at 160 MHz.

SSID: "xxxxxx"
noise: -87 dBm Channel: 36/160
BSSID: 3C:7C:3F:E1:EB:54 Capability: ESS RRM
Supported Rates: [ 6(b) 9 12 18 24(b) 36 48 54 ]
HE Capable:
Chanspec: 5GHz channel 50 160MHz (0xe832)
Primary channel: 36


Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode : AP Only

DFS status: state In-Service Monitoring(ISM) time elapsed 36450ms radar channel cleared by DFS channel 36/160 (0xE832)



Stations List
----------------------------------------
idx MAC Associated Authorized RSSI PHY PSM SGI STBC MUBF NSS BW Tx rate Rx rate Connect Time
B4:0EE:6D:xx:xx Yes Yes -38dBm ax No Yes Yes Yes 2 160M 2268.5M 490M 00:00:03
4C:03:4F:9B:xx:xx Yes Yes -63dBm ac No Yes Yes Yes 2 160M 1560M 1300M 00:00:33
94:EA:32:53:xx:xx Yes Yes -66dBm ax Yes Yes No No 2 80M 1134.2M 24M 01:16:14
4C:82:CF9:xx:xx Yes Yes -70dBm n No Yes No No 2 40M 270M 300M 01:24:24
EC:CE7:35:xx:xx Yes Yes -64dBm ac Yes Yes No No 1 80M 390M 24M 01:32:23
44:61:32:E9:xx:xx Yes Yes -60dBm ac No Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 390M 433.3M 01:49:32
18:4E:CB:C4:xx:xx Yes Yes -72dBm ac Yes Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 390M 6M 01:50:15
F0:B51:A1:xx:xx Yes Yes -59dBm n Yes Yes No No 1 40M 135M 6M 01:50:22
08:AA:55:08:xx:xx Yes Yes -71dBm ac Yes Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 390M 6M 01:51:23
2C:1F:23:E3:xx:xx Yes Yes -56dBm n Yes Yes No No 1 40M 135M 24M 01:51:39
B8:27:EB:62:xx:xx Yes Yes -46dBm ac No Yes No No 1 80M 390M 390M 01:52:09
38:817:3D:xx:xx Yes Yes -71dBm n Yes Yes No No 1 40M 135M 6M 01:52:39

 

[sfx2000]

DFS and false positives are always a problem - as mentioned earlier, to really examine what's going on inside DFS at the chip level usually requires NDA's - ath9k is probably the exception, and even there, it's a bit obtuse...

Nice discussion here - warning, PDF link

http://www.linuxwireless.sipsolutions.net/attachments/en/developers/DFS/Vancouver2011-Slides-DFS.pdf

It was one thing in 11n, but with 11ac and 11ax and greater deployments in 5GHz, DFS is an even bigger challenge - know that most implementations need to make a decision quickly if getting what might be a DFS hit, so most will err on the side of caution...

 

[L&LD]

@willyburz, you are probably sabotaging your progress by using a WiFi analyzer app.

Simply test each Control Channel manually (I would reboot the router after changing the channel and begin testing 10-15 minutes afterward).

The analyzer you have cannot show channel utilization (and even if it did, you would need to be logging for a week or more to see it accurately), nor can it show non-WiFi interference either. In addition, when such an app is running, it is usually degrading to the network it is running on.

With all the above said, using an analyzer is a waste of time for most people. And simply testing different Control Channels is a better use of that time.

Don't test for maximum download speeds either, (although that is important too, of course). I tune a network for lowest latency every time. Nobody complains about the results ever.

Control Channel Setup 2021

Reset Mini Guide + Control Channel Setup Details

Control Channel Setup (more)

 

[willyburz]

I hear you,

@willyburz, you are probably sabotaging your progress by using a WiFi analyzer app.

Simply test each Control Channel manually (I would reboot the router after changing the channel and begin testing 10-15 minutes afterward).

The analyzer you have cannot show channel utilization (and even if it did, you would need to be logging for a week or more to see it accurately), nor can it show non-WiFi interference either. In addition, when such an app is running, it is usually degrading to the network it is running on.

With all the above said, using an analyzer is a waste of time for most people. And simply testing different Control Channels is a better use of that time.

Don't test for maximum download speeds either, (although that is important too, of course). I tune a network for lowest latency every time. Nobody complains about the results ever.

Control Channel Setup 2021

Reset Mini Guide + Control Channel Setup Details

Control Channel Setup (more)

I hear you loud and clear but in reality I simplify it very easily... where are my decibels of strength, then where are they stacked at and said decibels of strength go too high or not in where I choose my manual channel locks. I know my busiest areas of signal interference and where they max out within my household, I see across all spectrums very few spikes that would f with my signal or kick something. Historically even prior to this asus router, ALL asus routers auto channel horribly in my opinion...so I've never trusted the programming of auto channel, especially when I know if I get on a clean channel the two closest neighbors auto won't toggle to mine as I've seen historically.

 

[L&LD]

WiFi is more nuanced than mere dBm signals. Routers must communicate with the other routers in the vicinity, to share time equally. However, if, for example, your router is utilizing the same channel as a router on a busy network, it will get significantly less airtime. Even if your router 'sees' it very faintly (it still has to negotiate air time with it, but it will get significantly less than a router right next door to yours but with very little utilization of the band/channels.

The same thing (or worse) can happen when you're considering/not considering non-WiFi interference. You can have the strongest signal, but for whatever environmental reason, the WiFi performance of the network will be dreadful. Your dBm measurements (and therefore your selection of Control Channel) simply cannot account for that.

Even if you hire/have a multi-thousand dollar meter that accurately monitors Channel utilization, and you leave it for a week/month or more to get an indication of the best channel for your setup, that doesn't mean it won't change next month either. And you're back to looking at numbers, instead of just directly solving the problem (by just picking a different Control Channel).

Simplify, we must. But only enough! To get us valid results for our networks. That is what my suggested guide offers (by taking all WiFi interference into account). Rather than just going by one aspect of WiFi performance.

 

[Rolitranco]

Because of DFS... no space available there.

go to the lower end of the band, and keep in mind, with 160MHz channels, your neighbors are going to impact things there...

This worked, thank you.

AX86U Pro + AX86S in Aimesh mode, Russia, the entire Ch100 - 144 range totally free of any neighbour interference.

Yet with Control channel Autoselecting Ch 116, and the Channel bandwidth set to 20/40/60/80/160, the router would invariaby set an 80MHz bandwidth. Forcing 160MHz resulted in an AX laptop and an Android phone not being able to connect at all.

Following your advice, I manually selected control channel 100, and voilà - the router switched to 160MHz immediately, with the AIMesh node following automatically a minute later.

BTW, the Wi-Fi Analyzer for Android DOES seem to report these things correctly, contrary to what another poster suggested.

PS Not sure if I have any device that will take advantage of this, but it's fun to mess around with settings

 

[bbunge]

PS Not sure if I have any device that will take advantage of this, but it's fun to mess around with settings

Glad you are having fun! I backed the 5 GHz to 80 MHz with DFS enabled. ALL of my 5 GHz clients are very happy! 160 MHz worked for me except for one tablet that got wonky at times. With the 5 GHz set to 80 MHz it has no problems.