AX86U connection to AX58 Media Bridge - link rate gradually slows down.

[Damun]

I have an AX86U as my main router and i am using a AX58U in Media Bridge mode (connected to my sons PC).
After a "fresh" reboot of the media bridge and then main router (in that order) i get Tx/Rx link rates at around 3600Mbbps/2400Mbps (see attached picture, bottom row).
After a day or two the link rate drops to around 2400Mbps/1200Mbps (Tx/Rx) and eventually to 1200/1200. NSS also goes down eventually to 2 instead of 4
Rebooting the main router (AX86U) only, usually resets the link rate back to 3600/2400. If i only reset the media bridge (AX58U) the link rate remains low.

Based on this, I am guessing that the problem is with the main router (AX86U).

Both are running latest stock firmware.

Anyone having any experience with this? Is there anything i can do to keep up the high link rates?

 

[bbunge]

First I would use the AX58U as an AiMesh node. Yes, you can still connect a wired client to the node.
Wifi settings for the AX86U: Use Dual Band Smart Connect, 2.4 GHz at 20 MHz on channel 1, 6 or 11, 5 GHz on channel 36 to 44 at 160 MHz. Use WPA2/WPA3 (note: this may cause issues with some older clients so use WPA2 if in doubt).
You will get lots of recommendations for WIFI settings but these work for me on Asus firmware and Merlin. Using the Dual Band Smart Connect, same SSID for 2.4 and 5 GHz will allow clients to switch to 2.4 GHz if the 5 GHz gets bounced by RADAR.

 

[Damun]

Thanks for your reply @bbunge

I was actually using the AX58U as an AiMesh node, originally. However, that prooved to be problematic: Clients either all connecting to node and not to router, or vice versa (I'm guessing "too much" WiFi, if there is such a thing). Unfortunately there's no option to use a wired backhaul.

I was thinking of buying a new AX WiFi-adapter for my sons PC, but then I read a couple of threads and posts here on the forum, where it was suggested to use a router as a WiFi adapter for wired clients by putting it in Media Bridge mode. Having allready bought the router i gave it a go. The speed is amazing, when it's working at full speed.
Unfortunately it only lasts for a few days.

IIRC it could run for several weeks/months at top speed on the prior firmware.

 

[L&LD]

What firmware versions are the routers using? When was the last time you did a full reset to factory defaults after flashing the latest firmware? On both routers.

Did you try to simply remove the AiMesh node, perform a WPS button reset (using the appropriate method for your router in question), and then re-associate it?

That isn't the recommended method anymore. Not even by Asus

[Wireless] ASUS router Hard Factory Reset | Official Support | ASUS Global

Fully Reset Router and Network

Best Practice Update/Setup Router/AiMesh Node(s) 2021

Media Bridge Mode

About L&LD

 

[Damun]

What firmware versions are the routers using? When was the last time you did a full reset to factory defaults after flashing the latest firmware? On both routers.

Did you try to simply remove the AiMesh node, perform a WPS button reset (using the appropriate method for your router in question), and then re-associate it?

That isn't the recommended method anymore. Not even by Asus

[Wireless] ASUS router Hard Factory Reset | Official Support | ASUS Global

Fully Reset Router and Network

Best Practice Update/Setup Router/AiMesh Node(s) 2021

Media Bridge Mode

About L&LD

Thanks for your reply @L&LD

Earlier this year i spent many weeks setting up AiMesh following your guides, but could not get it to work properly.
First with two AX58U's and then with an AX86U and an AX58U. Even tried wired backhaul. However, AiMesh was most likely overkill for my apartment.
I ended up using only the AX86U, which has worked reasonably well.

My son is gaming quite a lot (not pro or anything), but unfortunately we can't connect his PC to the AX86U using a LAN cable. Well, we can, but it would require a lot of work (drilling, removing pieces of floor etc.). His built in adapter on the motherboard is only AC and i was thinking of getting him an AX adapter, but having allready spent money on two AX58U's and an AX86U, the economy is already stretched.

Then i read some of your posts where you reccomended to use existing routers in Media Bridge mode and here we are now.
Works really good, except for that drop in link rate every few days

Current firmware:
AX86U - 3.0.0.4.386_44130
AX58U - 3.0.0.4.386_43406

The firmware on both routers was updated about two weeks ago from following versions:
AX86U - 3.0.0.4.386.42840
AX58U - 3.0.0.4.386.42095

No reset was performed before/after firmware update.

Before setting the AX86U up with the AX58U as Media Bridge (a couple of months ago) everything was fully reset (full network and router reset), following your excellent guides.
In short:

1. Reset both from GUI
2. Update firmware on both (AX86U - 3.0.0.4.386.42840, AX58U - 3.0.0.4.386.42095)
3. Reset from GUI on both
4. WPS-reset on both
5. Setup AX86U as router (following your best practice guide)
6. Setup AX58U as Media Bridge (following your guide)

 

[L&LD]

It's probably a long shot, but the different firmware versions between the two routers is a clue to me that it may be an issue.

That is why RMerlin firmware is suggested. All supported routers are more likely to be on the exact same code base.

 

[bbunge]

Thanks for your reply @bbunge

I was actually using the AX58U as an AiMesh node, originally. However, that prooved to be problematic: Clients either all connecting to node and not to router, or vice versa (I'm guessing "too much" WiFi, if there is such a thing). Unfortunately there's no option to use a wired backhaul.

I was thinking of buying a new AX WiFi-adapter for my sons PC, but then I read a couple of threads and posts here on the forum, where it was suggested to use a router as a WiFi adapter for wired clients by putting it in Media Bridge mode. Having allready bought the router i gave it a go. The speed is amazing, when it's working at full speed.
Unfortunately it only lasts for a few days.

IIRC it could run for several weeks/months at top speed on the prior firmware.

OK, but what are your wireless settings on the AX86U? That is where I would look with AiMesh or media bridge mode. As I understand, gamers seek low ping rates. You just might do better with his built in AC adaptor and the AX86U set to WPA2 and 80 MHz on 5 GHZ.

 

[Tech9]

After a day or two the link rate drops to around 2400Mbps/1200Mbps (Tx/Rx)

Your main router switches from 160MHz to 80MHz. Lock it on 80MHz and don't use DFS channels. AX58U has Gigabit ports only, no need to push it to 160MHz anyway. Your son can use the built-in AC Wi-Fi just fine. 2-stream AC with good signal can reach >400Mbps. Games will run the same way.

 

[Damun]

@L&LD
When i get the time to do a complete reset again (probably this summer) i may switch over to Merlin.

@bbunge
Everyhing is kept according to L@LD's setup. My son actually gets better performance using the current setup, mainly because the better placement of router/antennas compared to his built in AC adapter. The built in WiFi adapter has no external antenna and his desktop pc is on the floor under his desk - as far away from the router as it can get. The Media Bridge is placed much closer to the main router and is wired (Ethernet) to his PC.

@Tech9
Thanks for your suggestions. As i live in an apartment the non-DFS channels are getting crowded here. I'll have a look into changing the channel (currently 56).
Regarding the built-in AC: See my response to @bbunge above
Could you please explain why the Gigabit ports are limiting when using 160MHz? I am not that much into this tech.

 

[Tech9]

As i live in an apartment the non-DFS channels are getting crowded here.

Many networks around doesn't necessarily mean crowded. You may see 10+ networks in lower channels 36-48 and still have the available channel bandwidth to push your full 400Mbps ISP speed to common 2x2 AC/AX client. I would use channels 36-48 at 80MHz for connection reliability.

Could you please explain why the Gigabit ports are limiting when using 160MHz? I am not that much into this tech.

Link speeds above 2400Mbps exceed Gigabit port throughput. Link speeds above 867Mbps (2x2 AC) won't make much difference on your 400Mbps ISP. 160MHz and DFS channels only lower your connection reliability without adding advantages. The AX58U router is not needed. It doesn't make your son's gaming much better. In both cases (internal adapter or Media Bridge) you have a Wi-Fi connection to the PC. Wired is the best for gaming, but as you said your son is not a pro or a competition gamer.

 

[Damun]

Thanks for that explanation @Tech9

 

[Tech9]

How many devices do you have, @Damun? The screenshot above shows only eight, with one only AX and BF capable. Don't use 40MHz on 2.4GHz in a condo building, you're making things only worse for everyone around.

 

[Damun]

How many devices do you have, @Damun? The screenshot above shows only eight, with one only AX and BF capable. Don't use 40MHz on 2.4GHz in a condo building, you're making things only worse for everyone around.

That screenshot was taken right after a reboot so not all devices were connected (and it's only for the 5GHz band).
Right now i have 16 devices connected but we have up to 22 devices when working from home.
A few of my devices are on the 2.4GHz band. I have the 2.4GHz set to 20/40MHz by default - never touched it. I can see that it runs at 20MHz bandwith atm. Most of the settings are left on default - apart from the ones that are changed according to L&LD's setup guide. Most of our devices are on the 5GHz band and i curently have 4 devices on AX (1 more comming soon).

 

[Tech9]

Use fixed channel @20MHz for 2.4GHz. The general recommendation is 1-6-11, but since no one around follows the rules select one 1-11 with higher bandwidth available. Test and see what works best in your environment. Hold your ground and don't change the channel often. Use fixed channel 36-48 or 149-161 @20/40/80MHz for the 5GHz band for better stability. Test and see what works best - lower or higher channels. Don't use SmartConnect for more control where the devices connect and to avoid unwanted band switching. If your AX clients are phones/tablets, none of them need high bandwidth. If you have AX capable laptops, they already have full ISP speeds. 5GHz @160MHz is not needed and not recommended in dense Wi-Fi environments and the AX58U Media Bridge is doing very little to improve your son's gaming.

 

[Damun]

Thanks @Tech9

 

[Tech9]

I own an apartment downtown. The Wi-Fi environment there is very dense. I use channel 4 @20MHz for 2.4GHz and channel 40 @80MHz for 5GHz. The ISP speed is similar to yours - 300Mbps cable. 2.4GHz band throughput is about 60Mbps most of the time, 5GHz band gets the full ISP speed. No issues with Wi-Fi connectivity for 4 years. My recommendations come from real life experience. Lock the channels and hold there. Most routers around work on Auto and in time will give you some space. You have to fight for bandwidth in apartment buildings.

 

[illusion]

Glad I foudn this thread.

OP - I am facing a similar problem. My link rates gradually drop to 1200 mbps after a day for all my AX laptops. A reboot fixes the issue and the link rates go back to 2400 mbps. Is there no one else who is facing this ? Is this a hardware issue ?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Glad I foudn this thread.

OP - I am facing a similar problem. My link rates gradually drop to 1200 mbps after a day for all my AX laptops. A reboot fixes the issue and the link rates go back to 2400 mbps. Is there no one else who is facing this ? Is this a hardware issue ?

No. And yes, by design.

You are probably using 160 MHz bandwidth that requires DFS channels. If the router is forced (by law and design) to use non-DFS channels for DFS reasons, it cannot continue to use 160 MHz bw and will drop back to 80 MHz bw, halving your AX link rate from 2400 to 1200.

See my install notes for some clues and recommended configuration. You can try 160 MHz across two different channel ranges, but if DFS disruption continues because of where you live, you either tolerate it (I would not) or use 80 MHz across non-DFS channels.

OE

 

[Damun]

Glad I foudn this thread.

OP - I am facing a similar problem. My link rates gradually drop to 1200 mbps after a day for all my AX laptops. A reboot fixes the issue and the link rates go back to 2400 mbps. Is there no one else who is facing this ? Is this a hardware issue ?

I have noticed a couple of things:

1) I changed the 5GHz channel to 56 and it seems to have stabilized the speed drop quite a bit.

2) On the last stock firmware (AX86U v.3.0.0.4.386.45934, AX58U v.3.0.0.4.386.45934 from oct/nov 2021) my system was VERY stable: It didn't drop speed and stayed at 160MHz bandwith all the time. On the newest stock firmware (AX86U 3.0.0.4.386.46061, AX58U 3.0.0.4.386.47029, both from jan 2022) i have had a couple of speed drops/bandwith reduction (i check the logs once or twice a week).

Apart from firmware updates i haven't changed a thing.

 

[illusion]

I have noticed a couple of things:

1) I changed the 5GHz channel to 56 and it seems to have stabilized the speed drop quite a bit.

2) On the last stock firmware (AX86U v.3.0.0.4.386.45934, AX58U v.3.0.0.4.386.45934 from oct/nov 2021) my system was VERY stable: It didn't drop speed and stayed at 160MHz bandwith all the time. On the newest stock firmware (AX86U 3.0.0.4.386.46061, AX58U 3.0.0.4.386.47029, both from jan 2022) i have had a couple of speed drops/bandwith reduction (i check the logs once or twice a week).

Apart from firmware updates i haven't changed a thing.

Thats good to know but are you still connecting at higher than 1200mbps link rates