Best advice for laying out (and upgrading) my home network

[namurt]

Apologies for the long post. I just want to be sure I'm giving as much info as possible.

My current configuration is as follows:

ISP: FiOS 75/35
Primary Router: Linksys WRT320N (running dd-wrt)
Secondary Router: Actiontec Rev F

I live in a three story townhouse (plus basement).

My FiOS ONT is in the corner of the basement. I have it provisioned for ethernet, and cat 5e feeds into the Linksys, which is also in the basement. The Actiontec is bridged with the Linksys via a LAN-to-LAN configuration. Its wireless is turned off. It's only in the mix so I can get guide and VOD data to my FiOS set top boxes. (The Actiontec is also in the basement.) Ideally, I think I'd like to get rid of the Actiontec and replace it with just a MoCA Adapter (like the ECB2500). I really have no need for the routing capabilities of the Actiontec.

My typical wireless network usage consists of mostly streaming (Netflix and Hulu) to two Chromecasts, one on the first floor and one on the second floor. I also have two laptops, a tablet and three smartphones that are often in use simultaneously. All of these devices are N clients or better (one smartphone and one laptop are AC capable).

I've had the WRT320N for quite some time, and I've used it to tinker with and learn dd-wrt. I've had it running overclocked for a good long while (almost a couple of years) and I think it's finally about to crap out. I get a lot of random reboots and returning to stock firmware hasn't helped.

So I'm looking at getting a new router, but at the same time, I would like to add an AP to help spread out coverage. Coverage is currently pretty spotty on the third floor and out in the backyard.

I have my eyes on the R7000. I'm not sure what to get for the AP. I don't need anything super fancy. Perhaps the Asus NT-12?

Now here's where my question finally comes in. How should I set all this up? I only have one cat 5e run coming from the basement up to the second floor. If I place the R7000 on the second floor, I'll only be able to hook the desktop PC in my office into it, and this will leave a few other devices that I normally leave hard-wired (such as my Boxee and NAS) hanging out to dry. I can't consolidate all of my hard-wired devices into my office because it's a reaaaalllly tiny office and some of the devices need to be in my entertainment center on the first floor anyway. It's not feasible for me to do any more ethernet runs because I rent and don't have landlord permission to do any sort of wiring whatsoever.

Do you think it will be okay to put the R7000 in the basement and run all 5GHz traffic off that and then get an N AP (again, maybe the Asus NT-12) and put it on the second floor and run all 2.4GHz traffic off that?

I'm looking to maximize coverage and performance. Of course, aren't we all?

 

[CaptainSTX]

Use the MOCA capabilities of the Actiontec to put hardwired Ethernet connections anywhere you currently have coaxial cables.

Plug inexpensive routers into the MOCA adapters and repurpose them as APs to give your self multiple WiFi APs plus additional Ethernet ports for hardwired connections.

Try to plug your home media server NAS device to the same switch/router where most of the traffic will originate and or terminate.

 

[Razor512]

Your network setup is already fine, you did the main good thing with fios. After the first 2 days of using the service I ended up setting my actiontrc crap to a LAN to LAN config so that I can use my own router at the time. (the issue with the actiontec crap is that it struggles to handle a large number of connections, and is inconsistent in its throughput, because it is always doing something in the background. It also has a remote access feature that cannot be turned off (allows verizon to configure the router over the web)

While the MoCA functions seem interesting, It performs nowhere near as good as ethernet, and the way verizon implements it, makes it so that it is not very compatible with other devices (the adapters are also expensive) for the price you can often buy an 802.11ac router and configure it at a bridge + AP to expand coverage if you cannot run ethernet cable through the home. (from my testing,the moca to ethernet translation that the actiontec does, seems to add about 2 milliseconds of latency).

For best performance with your setup, (if you go with the R7000) you will have to go with having the ethernet cable run from the ONT, to the R7000, then have the R7000 locates in as central of a position as you can manage in the home, then do a LAN to LAN connection to the actiontec router and see how far you can have it away from the R7000, and if far enough, use that as a secondary access point for devices that do not need much more than about 20mbit/s of throughput.

I currently now use an R7000 as my main router, and it provides enough 2.4GHz and 5GHz coverage to cover the entire 3 level house, (basement, ground level, and upstairs)(house is a little under 2500 square feet), though I still have an extra AP which is my WNDR4700 because it gives extremely good 802.11n performance, and is my main DLNA server since it offers far better storage performance than the R7000.

 

[abailey]

Can you tell us a few more details?
What devices are on each floor and are they currently wired or wireless?
Are there devices that are currently wireless that could be wired if you could get a connection to them?
Do you currently use MOCA?
Do you have COAX outlets that are located close to where you could use a wired Ethernet connection?
Is your house located in a residential neighborhood or is it relatively secluded (meaning at least 600 feet from the next house or business)?

 

[namurt]

Can you tell us a few more details?
What devices are on each floor and are they currently wired or wireless?
Are there devices that are currently wireless that could be wired if you could get a connection to them?
Do you currently use MOCA?
Do you have COAX outlets that are located close to where you could use a wired Ethernet connection?
Is your house located in a residential neighborhood or is it relatively secluded (meaning at least 600 feet from the next house or business)?

What devices are on each floor and are they currently wired or wireless?

Basement: FiOS ONT, Linksys (wired cat5e - from ONT), Actiontec (wired - cat5e lan-to-lan with Linksys), NAS (wired cat5e)
1st Floor: Boxee (wired cat5e), Panasonic HDTV (wired cat5e - only for firmware updates), XBox360 (wired cat5e), FiOS STB (wired coax), Chromecast (wireless)
2nd Floor: Desktop PC (wired cat5e), MacBook Pro (wireless - spends most of its time on this floor), FiOS STB (wired coax), Chromecast (wireless)
3rd Floor and Backyard: Occasionally take iPad, MacBook and Smartphones to these locations

iPad and Smartphones are all over the place.

Are there devices that are currently wireless that could be wired if you could get a connection to them?

No.

Do you currently use MOCA?

Only for the FiOS STB's to provide guide and VOD data. MoCA network is managed by the Actiontec.

Do you have COAX outlets that are located close to where you could use a wired Ethernet connection?

No. There's a single coax run (literally one cable) to the 1st floor STB and a single coax run (again, literally one cable) to the 2nd floor STB. It's a really old row home and I rent. I can't install new outlets or do any wiring runs.

Is your house located in a residential neighborhood or is it relatively secluded (meaning at least 600 feet from the next house or business)?

I live in a block of row homes. Tons of wireless traffic all around me. I can easily see 15+ ssids with a quick search.


My main concern is making my wife happy. She complains from time to time that she's losing wireless signal in the office on the second floor where she works on her MacBook. She also has been having difficulty with wireless signal in the backyard on the patio when she takes the iPad or her MacBook out there. Other than that, I do see some issues with the 2nd floor Chromecast now and again.

I'm wondering if I might just be okay with the R7000 by itself? I'm assuming the upgrade from the Linksys will give me at least a little bit of extra coverage, especially after reading Razor512's post.

My situation is just really screwy because I can't add any wiring and the way my devices are layed out, it's hard for me to put the main router (R7000) anywhere but right in the basement next to the ONT. I just want the most robust network I can manage.

Thank you for the replies!

 

[azazel1024]

My suggestion would be get a halfway decent N router for the basement, like the TP-Link WDR3600 (I hype it only because I have a couple and they work great for me) to handle routing duties and wireless coverage for basement and some of the first floor. Then get the R7000 or whatever and located it on the 2nd floor as an AP. Then you can have everything wired you want to still.

If you need to expand wired coverage and don't need screaming speeds for the new wired devices, expand with powerline. It isn't super fast, but if it is mostly stuff like game consoles and streaming boxes, you don't need a whole lot of throughput. It is shared medium, but with some good adapter it should be no problem getting 50-60Mbps of throughput, if not more. Which is plenty for a bunch of streamers.

Afterall, these are mostly internet devices, so if the powerline adapters can come close to saturating your internet connection, its enough throughput (now if you need fast LAN access, that is a different story).

Also...you upgraded your FIOS yet? Verizon just changed to symetrical speeds. They'll roll it out to all new customers and everyone else this fall, but they also gave people the option to sign-up for member+ and get the speeds now. I read the fine print, really no extra conditions or hidden "we'll screw you over later".

My 75/35 was changed to 75/75 within about an hour. My speedtest results went from 82/36 to 83/91. Not that I really need the extra upload generally, but it can't hurt. I think the only place that was limited by my upload pipe was Onedrive, as Dropbox was and is generally hitting around a 20-25Mbps cap, though I haven't tried it since Verizon made the changes yesterday.

 

[azazel1024]

Oh and if you want to get rid of the actiontec router crap, I can deffinitely recommend the ECB2500. It was PnP for me. Just wait 30 seconds and the DVR is all internet connected and everything again. A lot smaller and lower power and nice that I OWN it, instead of worry about Verizon demanding rental fees on it at some point (which they do appear to be doing with some new customers).

 

[namurt]

Also...you upgraded your FIOS yet? Verizon just changed to symetrical speeds. They'll roll it out to all new customers and everyone else this fall, but they also gave people the option to sign-up for member+ and get the speeds now. I read the fine print, really no extra conditions or hidden "we'll screw you over later".

My 75/35 was changed to 75/75 within about an hour. My speedtest results went from 82/36 to 83/91. Not that I really need the extra upload generally, but it can't hurt. I think the only place that was limited by my upload pipe was Onedrive, as Dropbox was and is generally hitting around a 20-25Mbps cap, though I haven't tried it since Verizon made the changes yesterday.

Yeah, I saw the thread over at dslreports and signed up for the rewards program and was re-provisioned within 30 minutes. I'm pulling 84/87. I've seen a lot of folks hitting around 91 or 92 up, but I guess it's not in the cards for me. I'm in the Philly suburbs.

I hesitate to go with powerline for my wired devices on the second floor, namely my desktop pc. I do a lot of large transfers to/from my NAS and also a lot of torrenting. I want every ounce of speed I can get, especially now that my FiOS is symmetrical.

I am heavily leaning toward the ECB2500. Don't need anything but the MoCA capabilities of the Actiontec so a straight up MoCA adapter makes sense.

 

[azazel1024]

If you are looking for maximum speed, the new TP-Link AV2 powerline adapters seem to be where it is at. SNB tested them at around 160Mbps or so with a good connection. Granted, you might not get that, but that is a lot faster than you can get with MoCA 1.1, at least with most MoCA adapters as they have fast ethernet ports, so 100Mbps maximum.

In the one test with my ECB2500 I did for curiosities sake, I got low 90's Mbps (like 91-92Mbps) for file transfers.

It does work great to ditch the actiontec router and use the ECB2500 for my DVR though.

 

[stevech]

SNB tested them at around 160Mbps or so with a good connection. .

It would be so helpful if we all make a habit of clarifying if a speed number is raw bit rate on the medium (WiFi, PowerLine, MoCA) versus the net yield for an IP layer transfer; the latter is all that matters. The net yield in WiFi is on the order of 60% of the raw, and similar in other mediums. Readers can guess or assume, but that's not good.

The difference is due to channel-busy latency (CSMA/CA), half-duplex medium, modulation order, and coding (forward error correction). Some of these vary in time. They all contribute to overhead.


Lay persons read a "megabits" number on a product package, or whatever, and get snookered.

Much like the recurring confusion with "mbps - bits or bytes? 8-fold difference. The convention is B for bytes and b for bits.

 

[azazel1024]

It would be so helpful if we all make a habit of clarifying if a speed number is raw bit rate on the medium (WiFi, PowerLine, MoCA) versus the net yield for an IP layer transfer; the latter is all that matters. The net yield in WiFi is on the order of 60% of the raw, and similar in other mediums.
The difference is due to channel-busy latency (CSMA/CA), half-duplex medium, modulation order, and coding (forward error correction). Some of these vary in time. They all contribute to overhead.


Lay persons read a "megabits" number on a product package, or whatever, and get snookered.

Much like the recurring confusion between mbps - bits or bytes? 8-fold difference. The convention is B for bytes and b for bits.

To clarify, that was the net yield, not the link rate that SNB managed. I don't think they mentioned what the link rate was.

Obviously it doesn't help anyone, but I never mention link rates or pretty much never do and if I do, I state I am mentioning link rates. Link rates are meaningless really (other than telling you how it is modulating things). Net yield is all that matters to me.