Bonding two DSL connections

[ZachB]

Hello!

We have two identical DSL FTTN x2 connections (Sonic, which is rebranded AT&T U-verse). Originally I was hoping to load balance at the router (Asus RT-AC88U) but from testing that and reading more online, that doesn't work, at least with the asuswrt routers. For now I put in 32 load balancing policies that split up our clients, which is alright.

However, because we're close to the AT&T cabinet, AT&T was able to deliver the full 50 Mbit that we're paying for from a single pair -- each of our "FTTN x2" connections is actually a single pair. Does anyone know, if we were to rewire our jack or cable going to the modem (5268AC) so that both pairs are connected to a single modem, would that result in true bonding?

Thanks!

 

[sfx2000]

No, not like that...

Need to reach out to your provider, and they can assist with bonding the two connections..

 

[Nullity]

If you have two separate ISPs, there is no simple solution. You can use an external VPN to bond your connections, but that is usually an academic persuit where the rewards do not outweigh the effort.

 

[sfx2000]

If you have two separate ISPs, there is no simple solution. You can use an external VPN to bond your connections, but that is usually an academic persuit where the rewards do not outweigh the effort.

It's the same ISP, but he's got two connections - which means at the CO, he's got two DSLAM's assigned, each with their own config - it's possible to bond them, and many ISP's can do this, but typically this is done at layer 2...

Internet -------- DSLAM ------ NID/Modem ------- (if NID, then RG, otherwise PC/Router)

Either the bonding happens in the NID (uVerse as an example), or it happens in the modem with two RJ11 lines in...

How can one tell if they have a NID - the connection on the "modem" will be RJ45 (ethernet), otherwise it's likely RJ11, which is a single link... a NID for bonded, that is preferred, FWIW...)

 

[Nullity]

My ISP supports VDSL2 bonding (G.Bond), but the bonding is done via a single consumer device that accepts two lines (two separate 2-wire lines or maybe a single 4-wire RJ11). Bonding two separate modems is uncommon and will likely require technology that your ISP does not support, making the whole project implausible.

Like sfx said, contact your ISP.

 

[System Error Message]

im not sure how you would do it with ASUS but i did something similar to this with mikrotik although you would have to define the path if there are multiple layer 2 paths. Technically if you use PPPOE you would need 2 PPP servers to connect to and than just set your NAT rule to general purpose , give them the same weightage and you should be able to do it. There are many non consumer routers that can do what you ask but the load balancing is done with the router and not the modem.

You can do load balancing but you would need a modem that supports it. I remember that draytek sells them and that they're quite good when it comes to modems and load balancing modems. It is much better to do bonding on the modem if it is multiple lines but the same account and ISP unless however if your ISP has multiple PPP servers and uses PPPOE which you can than use your router to do load balancing instead but you would need a ppp scanner or to get your ISP to give you the details. In my case my ISP had 4 PPP servers i could connect to.

So if you want to load balance multiple modems you need mikrotik but if you want to load balance the layer 2 links (VDSL lines) than draytek might have what you're looking for. This is assuming it comes from the same ISP. Bonding is only possible if both you and the ISP do it otherwise it is just load balancing.

 

[sfx2000]

So if you want to load balance multiple modems you need mikrotik

pfSense can deal with this - right as rain...

I think what you might have considered to suggest is that many consumer Router/AP's cannot do this out of the box...

 

[System Error Message]

pfSense can deal with this - right as rain...

I think what you might have considered to suggest is that many consumer Router/AP's cannot do this out of the box...

pfsense and linux server can, ubiquiti however cant do it as easily because they restrict quite a lot of things so you "dont shoot yourself in the foot". So even some non consumer routers cannot do this as easily. I keep forgetting one brand that does VPN bonding that does this too.

With mikrotik it is very easy to deal with complicated network setups just like with cisco IOS and while using a linux OS/server will let you do way more it is more difficult/tiresome to set up. At the very least with a non consumer solutions it is much easier to choose as they all have clear differences.

So correcting my statement consumer routers cannot do this normally, but i know openwrt is capable and probably RMerlin's firmware if you dont mind doing it the hard way and reusing what you have as they both have configurability.

 

[sfx2000]

Getting back to OP's question - the Telco can configure the DSLAM's and Modem to bond - and load balance/aggregate/failover as needed with a single IP to your Router/AP.

Talk to the telco - might consider business class vs. coach here... might be cheaper in the end run, and a better service level...

 

[System Error Message]

just came across this :http://www.metanoia-comm.com/product_d.php?id=21 and there may be more.

So another solution you could use is a router with multiple SFP and connecting these directly to it for load balancing. A managed switch must be used and it must be able to assign switch groups (change so not all ports are switched to each other) and vlans (for extra protection) if you want the cheaper route since switches with SFP are cheaper than routers with SFP. Also if your ISP uses vlans this can help take some load off the router.

So if you you plan on using multiple DSL cables on the same ISP using the same account you will run into the issue of multiple NICs same IP and network which many routers dont like. mikrotik routerOS however can deal with this if you use PPPOE non physical interfaces arent restricted on routerOS (you can have a 65KB frame non physical interface and all sorts of weird things and connect them how you like). Configuration can be a pain though. I can confirm that this works on routerOS because i had 2 PPPOE connections to my ISP and load balanced but i only had 1 cable instead.

So while this does work your ISP must have at least 2 PPPOE servers. If you have 3 links than 3 servers needed. Load balancing doesnt require the ISP's involvement, you just need the cables and your ISP just needs to have more than 1 PPP server. Mikrotik routerOS also has a PPP scanner which is useful so you dont need to phone your ISP to do this.

Bonding variable rate links can be a problem because 2 links will have different rates. If the rates are limited and not the max possible wire rate than bonding can be done but this is usually through a virtual layer 2 thing and requires both ends to support it so not only must your ISP be willing to do it but your equipment must support it (the modem in this case).

@sfx2000 sorry but im not particularly sure that pfsense is capable of 2 PPPOE links that have the same IP address and network.

 

[sfx2000]

@sfx2000 sorry but im not particularly sure that pfsense is capable of 2 PPPOE links that have the same IP address and network.

Tangent - and please be specific here with your statement.

One will not have two separate links with the same IP address - that'll need a bond after the fact..

 

[sfx2000]

So while this does work your ISP must have at least 2 PPPOE servers.

DSL does not "require" PPOE, btw... in some countries and operators perhaps, but not all...

 

[sfx2000]

So while this does work your ISP must have at least 2 PPPOE servers. If you have 3 links than 3 servers needed. Load balancing doesnt require the ISP's involvement, you just need the cables and your ISP just needs to have more than 1 PPP server. Mikrotik routerOS also has a PPP scanner which is useful so you dont need to phone your ISP to do this.

In other words, making a lot of assumptions without knowing all the details, eh?

 

[System Error Message]

DSL does not "require" PPOE, btw... in some countries and operators perhaps, but not all...

Arent you reading what i said? Ofcourse PPPOE isnt required but im saying is that in the OP's condition which is
-Trying to load balance across 2 VDSL links
-Uses the same ISP and account for both links
Using PPPOE with mikrotik lets you load balance with the same IP address across 2 interfaces.

Its not an assumption if it has already been done and i already have done it before using mikrotik in which both PPPOE interfaces i used in mikrotik having the same IP address and by adjusting the weightage and a few settings packets used both links at the same time. My ISP had 4 PPPOE servers. So it is definitely doable.

In mikrotik routerOS PPPOE is treated as a tunnel just like a VPN interface in terms of configuration so you can actually have multiple interfaces with the same IP address.

 

[sfx2000]

you can actually have multiple interfaces with the same IP address

I'll repeat - you cannot have two end-points with the same IP address - one can bond at the layer 2, but the IP layer has to be unique.

Can bond at the DSLAM, having two layer 2 addresses, and this is brought back together at the terminating end (NID/Modem). This is what bonding does, esp. with the provider that OP has, and I know a thing or two about them that you might not know...

 

[sfx2000]

And going back to OP's original post - both DSL lines are provided by the same operator, so the DSLAM's are co-located in the same CO, whether it's traditional DSL or FTTN - so it's down to the premises equipment...

having two consumer grade modems - each having it's own pair and login over PPOE is inefficient at best, but some operators that is all the offer...

Lightspeed DSL, which is what ATT offers, the NID/Modem does the pairing and auth, so what you get on the other end of a bonded connection to the customer is an RJ45 ethernet connection, which is either static (business) or dynamic DHCP, so basically any router/AP will work in that case...

'nuff said... (mic drop)

 

[Cloud200]

Well you really have two options;
1) call your ISP in order to bond the connections.
2) buy a router that does a better job at QOS and load balance the connections.

 

[cobra_shipwreck]

IN my case with bonded DSL, I am stuck with the cruddy modem my ISP provides. That modem is the only one that does what it does. If I could afford Metro e fiber connections I would switch to that in a heartbeat. Comcast is out the window as it is 18k to get comcast (they have to run cable.)

Regardless, at this point DSL is such a unique creature and constantly evolving that I notice that mainstream adaptation in common household devices doesn't quite keep paste with the newest innovations deployed to the field for those requiring the fastest connections possible.