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derBauer first raised concerns a few weeks ago while he was at Asus' offices, as he burned an X3D sample during overclocking tests Asus said at the time they would limit voltages. Apparently they didn`t limit it enough because I think I`ve seen photos of burned Asus motherboards as well.

AMD locked overclocking on the 5800X3D chip, and people complained. With 7000 series they unlocked things, and now people are burning their CPUs. Sometimes, when an engineer decides to lock down something, it`s for a good technical reason, not just for marketing purposes...
I did see that video he posted. The problem is Asus has not released a Bios to lower the voltages as of yet that I am aware of. Only MSI. In the meantime more folks came out and reported burnt boards/chips but no one knows if just an OC mishap by the owners or voltage issue on the vendor side. With most reports being of the Asus variety, I am suspecting Asus may be partially at fault with more aggressive voltage tweaking.

AMD also did not open voltage OC even on the 7000 X3D parts due to potentially damaging the CPUs. Board vendors took this on their own as AMD only gave access to PBO and curve optimizer overclocking this go around. I do hope the board vendors do right by the consumer and take responsibility for this.
 
On the nostalgic topic: anybody every visited https://csdb.dk/userpage/

It is a large collection of C64 demo's that used to circulate back in the day. In fact, there are about 6 among them that are mine. On MacOS, i can play them using Frodo SC.

1682447481682.png


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Latest leaks once again hint at a generational IPC improvement with Zen 5. The Zen architecture is definitely aging like fine wine since it was first introduced.

I will probably upgrade this 5900X with a Zen 5 system once it comes out, if I am still having to deal with building 15-20 firmware images at once. Going from my i7 7700K to a Ryzen 9 5900X dropped build times from over two hours to just 45 minutes. With the addition of more models I am once again back to above an hour to compile everything, and individually these newer models take 25 minutes to compile separately (a large portion of the build process is single-threaded). The combined performance gains of two generation jumps might be quite visible for my workload, assuming Zen 5 shows up in early 2024 as I suspect.

On the nostalgic topic: anybody every visited https://csdb.dk/userpage/

It is a large collection of C64 demo's that used to circulate back in the day. In fact, there are about 6 among them that are mine. On MacOS, i can play them using Frodo SC.

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I have never heard of that until now. I vaguely remember using C64 to play wheel of fortune, Jeopardy, and a few other games in school. When not using the C64 we used some old and at the time new Apple computers and I remember playing Oregon Trail... Such an addictive game lol.

My best memories were playing in the age of Adventure games with Kings Quest III being my entry in to a new world of gaming at the time.

Today I still like playing classic games along with new and I do highly recommend Launch Box as a way of bringing it altogether. I remember finding by pure accident as I was looking for emulators and a good front-end. Launch Box is on version 13.2 and the Big Box mode premium feature gives you a really good 10ft GUI that you can now launch into right from boot up. I am eventually looking at making a console PC for the living room and will use Launch Box as the UI for it. It has tied all my games from Steam, Epic, GOG, and Origin/EA together along with my games using various emulators all in one spot.
 
Today I still like playing classic games along with new and I do highly recommend Launch Box as a way of bringing it altogether. I remember finding by pure accident as I was looking for emulators and a good front-end. Launch Box is on version 13.2 and the Big Box mode premium feature gives you a really good 10ft GUI that you can now launch into right from boot up. I am eventually looking at making a console PC for the living room and will use Launch Box as the UI for it. It has tied all my games from Steam, Epic, GOG, and Origin/EA together along with my games using various emulators all in one spot.
Thanks for the tip. I am going to check that out. Maybe a good alternative UI for MAME64
 
I did see that video he posted. The problem is Asus has not released a Bios to lower the voltages as of yet that I am aware of. Only MSI. In the meantime more folks came out and reported burnt boards/chips but no one knows if just an OC mishap by the owners or voltage issue on the vendor side. With most reports being of the Asus variety, I am suspecting Asus may be partially at fault with more aggressive voltage tweaking.

AMD also did not open voltage OC even on the 7000 X3D parts due to potentially damaging the CPUs. Board vendors took this on their own as AMD only gave access to PBO and curve optimizer overclocking this go around. I do hope the board vendors do right by the consumer and take responsibility for this.
Looks like Asus commented about the voltage issue. They released a new Bios but also removed an older one https://wccftech.com/asus-says-late...mechanism-to-avoid-amd-ryzen-7000-cpu-damage/
 
Right now (in 2023) as an end-user, you really can`t go wrong with either of them. They both offer fantastic performance (7000 series vs 13th gen). One platform is slightly better in one usage scenario, the other is slightly better in another. And with the major price cuts 7000 series has been seeing these past few months, they are both price competitive as well.

My experience with a lot of computers and a lot of tinkering over the decades is the Intel CPUs (or more likely, the motherboards they go on) are just less finnicky and the drivers are more mature. The worst I've ever seen with an intel is thermal throttling due to the OEM not doing enough cooling, and that wasn't intel's fault, and doesn't do permanent damage (and isn't even noticed by most people). Have not run into any motherboards or CPUs burning out like AMD seems to have every few years (happening right now even).

Obviously its just my bias from those past experiences, and things change over time, but systems with intel just seem more mature and stable, and the correct drivers for everything are easy to find and install.

My last AMD was a "586" back in like 95 or 96 (actually that one was fine from what I recall), but I've worked on plenty of desktops and laptops with them since then, just always got frustrated dealing with it.

Like I said I think it is more the fact that motherboards and chipsets supporting intel are just more common and more mature. Probably not really an issue with the processors themselves. Both have squeezed amazing power into a tiny chip.

Similar to how I'll never recommend an HP laptop (not the home ones anyway, even the business ones are kinda shoddy). Maybe they've gotten better, but I've fixed so many that developed bad solder joints on the motherboard (have reflowed several mobos in the oven) and other crappy design related problems, like a heat sink that doesn't even make contact with the GPU, wrong thickness thermal pad was used on several I saw. After a few class action lawsuits, it is time to just give up on a company.

I reflowed one in the oven and replaced the silicon thermal pads with copper shims and Arctic silver, it ran for years and they said it was faster than when new (not surprising, as thermal throttling was no longer kicking in constantly).

HP's official fix was to release a BIOS update so the fan ran non stop. If the heatsink isn't even touching the chip, that isn't going to fix it guys.

Of course I lean toward reliability and stability over the absolute highest speed and power. For gamers and overclockers it may be worth the hassle, right now they're neck and neck but other times AMD lets you squeeze a lot more out of it if you're willing to take the risk and deal with all the trial and error.
 
Prescott P4s and Pentium Ds for example were both pretty notorious for overheating with very sub par / awful performance vs the competition. I switched to an Athlon 64 from a P4 Northwood and an Barton Athlon, after seeing reviews for the Prescott models. Can’t blame OEMs when a lot came with Intel’s own coolers. Let’s not forget RDRAM issues when that was advocated by Intel. I went back to Intel during AMDs Phenom and Piledriver (awful) era and back again to AMD with the Ryzen 5000 series. If you look closer you will find architectural duds on both sides. Can’t say I personally ever faced any platform/driver issues on either side though.
 
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Prescott P4s and Pentium Ds for example were both pretty notorious for overheating with very sub par / awful performance vs the competition. I switched to an Athlon 64 from an P4 Northwood and an Barton Athlon, after seeing reviews for the Prescott models. Can’t blame OEMs when a lot came with Intel’s own coolers. Let’s not forget RDRAM issues when that was advocated by Intel. I went back to Intel during AMDs Phenom and Piledriver era and back again to AMD with the Ryzen 5800. If you closer you will find duds on both sides.

I had both proc models (as well as RDRAM prior, in the early 2000s), no issues with any of it other than the cost of the RDRAM to upgrade.

The pentium D had big stock heat pipe heatsinks with case cooler blowing across them (stock setups from Dell). Actually had several friends buy the same model that I did and none had issues. I still have a couple of them somewhere, Dimension E520 if I remember right. Some opted for the P4 some did the D. Actually upgraded a couple from P4 to D, just required putting in the larger heatsink at the same time.

Of course neither is perfect, just saying I've seen hardly any issues related to processor/MB with Intel and lots with AMD. Doing a wipe and clean install on Intel has always been far easier and less time consuming for me too. Obviously everyone has their own opinions and experiences.
 
Yes, as I said initially, the Intel platforms are just more business orientated, and so much more stable/reliable. Almost everyone else who says AMD is on the same level is into the gaming aspects of computing. That puts them on the same level as consoles for me.

Of course, nothing is perfect, but when even Lenovo w/AMD is a lousy combination, that tells me a lot.

What I want from a laptop is cool/quiet operation, very responsive, excellent battery life when idle, and all Windows features to work (i.e. shut off the computer when I shut it down, sleep, without it waking up, don't use 40% battery life when 'off' and unused for 24 hours or more, etc.).

I'll state it again; any AMD-based laptop I've tried in the last couple of years has been returned or sold (except for the Lenovo Carbon Edition I'm 'stuck' with today). For dependable business use, they don't make the cut by a long shot. The most annoying thing is how variable the responsiveness is with AMD systems, depending on how/when you booted/rebooted them.

And all the promises AMD made over half a decade ago have gone out the window too. AMD systems are now more expensive than comparable Intel-based ones. So much for customer loyalty.

Yes, we each have our experiences and opinions based on them, but @drinkingbird's are the closest match to mine from everyone who's responded here.
 
Like I said I think it is more the fact that motherboards and chipsets supporting intel are just more common and more mature.
That`s until they introduce major architecture changes, which may also introduce issues requiring them to provide a driver fix. 12th gen`s new hybrid architecture launch wasn`t without issues either.
 
With AMD, I've been waiting for a fix for the Lenovo Carbon Edition issues for over a year.

Having issues isn't the benchmark. How fast those issues are addressed is.
 
With AMD, I've been waiting for a fix for the Lenovo Carbon Edition issues for over a year.
I seriously doubt that there would be any serious AMD specific issue that has been unresolved for over a year. This sounds more like a Lenovo-specific issue to me.
 
Yes, maybe that's why they stopped selling them(?).

Doesn't explain other AMD-specific issues in business settings.
 
I was avoiding gettting involved in the AMD/Intel debate but I guess i'm a fool for the bait, it's as logical as the Android/Apple debate.

Let's just say that for high end CPUs, AMD hold the top 17 benchmarks, with intel appearing with 1 chip at number 18, then another 10 places from AMD before another intel appears again. Price per performance the charts are similar.

Four of my home pc's are AMD, 2 are Intel, and they all work well although the intel ones are pretty old now. One of our pc's is a Lenovo Legion 7 AMD laptop and it kicks a lot of desktops out of the park, it's fantastically built and solid as hell for gaming.

We have 25 Dell intels at work, that are about 4 or 5 years old and they are slow and horrible to use in comparison. Although they are bearable, i'm probably the only one that notices they are just not as snappy. I kinda despise Dell as a brand, probably because we are forced to use them at work and I think they're overpriced. I think 3 or 4 of the Dells we bought are now sitting idle and broken upstairs, psu failures,mobo failures etc. Same applies to their gaming range and Alienware imo.

I guess it depends what you want to use it for. That's not to say that you can't have an Intel Gaming Rig, many people do, although pretty much all gamers I know use Ryzens.

My old FX chip for example lasted 10 years, and then sold on for 60 quid or so and I assume it's still going strong in it's new life. That said if you want to type docs in word on the train, perhaps intel is better. I'm sure theres pros and cons to both and I don't have a hate of intel, more a love of AMD, but then I prefer AUDI to BMW as well, call me weird.
 
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For business purposes my requirement is Intel only. Weird or not.
 
I was avoiding gettting involved in the AMD/Intel debate but I guess i'm a fool for the bait, it's as logical as the Android/Apple debate.

Let's just say that for high end CPUs, AMD hold the top 17 benchmarks, with intel appearing with 1 chip at number 18, then another 10 places from AMD before another intel appears again. Price per performance the charts are similar.

Four of my home pc's are AMD, 2 are intel, and they all work well although the intel ones are pretty old now. One of our pc's is a Lenovo Legion 7 AMD laptop and it kicks a lot of desktops out of the park, it's fantastically built and solid as hell for gaming.

We have 25 Dell intels at work, that are about 4 or 5 years old and they are slow and horrible to use in comparison. Although they are bearable, i'm probably the only one that notices they are just not as snappy. I kinda despise Dell as a brand, probably because we are forced to use them at work and I think they're overpriced. I think 3 or 4 of the Dells we bought are now sitting idle and broken upstairs, psu failures,mobo failures etc. Same applies to their gaming range and Alienware imo.

I guess it depends what you want to use it for. That's not to say that you can't have an Intel Gaming Rig, many people do, although pretty much all gamers I know use Ryzens.

My old FX chip for example lasted 10 years, and then sold on for 60 quid or so and I assume it's still going strong in it's new life. That said if you want to type docs in word on the train, perhaps intel is better. I'm sure theres pros and cons to both and I don't have a hate of intel, more a love on AMD, but then I prefer AUDI to BMW as well, call me weird.
I’m probably the odd one out lol. I like Dell’s businesses line Latitude/Precisions they seemed to last at least for us, still have corporate hand me downs a decade old without issues, and if you speak to the right people (and the right way) even as an individual you can get steep discounts vs listed pricing at times. HP’s (computers only) quality is the one that I’m usually most skeptical about based family experience.

I do like reading all the contrasting experiences between all of us on this thread though on various things lol. In a positive sense.
 
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For business purposes my requirement is Intel only. Weird or not.
No I think that's normal for whatever reason.

HP’s (computers only)
Actually I used to feel the same, HP can be a bit of a walled garden regarding upgrading components and locked down stuff. That said their printers are amazing with the instant ink deal, saves a fortune with 2 kids constantly printing home work. Regarding the computers, again it depends on your needs. For gaming probably not the way to go, for my parents for example, a neat tidy all in one ( amd based of course :) ) was perfect for their needs and a nice upgrade from the old Dell I acquired them 10 years ago from work.
 
Yeah was gonna say their printers were pretty good in my experience.
 

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