Buffer Bloat and AC86U

[randomName]

Hi there. What features on the AC86U will cause buffer bloat? Does something like the AiProtection cause some? What else does, and how can I reduce it as much as possible??

Thanks!

EDIT: I'm currently using stock firmware.

 

[Klueless]

I think high utilization over a low bandwidth Internet service is a leading cause of "buffer bloat". Try bandwidth limiters coupled with QoS to alleviate?

 

[randomName]

Does bandwidth limiter turn off HW accelerator?

EDIT: I'm also considering CoDel, but I'm not familiar with the different versions of them.

 

[rk8531]

Hi there. What features on the AC86U will cause buffer bloat? Does something like the AiProtection cause some? What else does, and how can I reduce it as much as possible??

Thanks!

EDIT: I'm currently using stock firmware.

I have enabled AI protection, installed Diversion & stubby and is also using openVPN. I have also enabled Adaptive QOS and still I am not experiencing any Buffer Bloats though I used to have huge lag spikes while gaming on my Netgear R7800 but I have not experienced any lag on Asus RT86U. QOS is pretty good on this router even with all the features enabled.

 

[rk8531]

Does bandwidth limiter turn off HW accelerator?

EDIT: I'm also considering CoDel, but I'm not familiar with the different versions of them.

I am using SFQ queue decipline with adaptive QOS and automatic settings. I am not experiencing any lags.

 

[randomName]

I am using SFQ queue decipline with adaptive QOS and automatic settings. I am not experiencing any lags.

Is SFQ queue decipline different than FreshJR's implementation? I'm not familiar at all with any of this stuff, tbh.

The other night, for the first time, I enabled Adaptive QoS, and selected 'Games' mode. I only game on a windows PC. I also selected Automatic Settings for Bandwidth Settings. Do these other implementations offer a better solution and how? Just customizable or are there better controlling type options that is offered over Adaptive QoS?

Thanks.

 

[Klueless]

Does bandwidth limiter turn off HW accelerator?

QoS will but I "don't think" a bandwidth limiter will.

If your Internet service is less than 100 Mbps I "don't think" hardware acceleration matters much anyway. If it's over 200 it will. For home users with a high speed connection I "think" buffer bloat is of little consequence?

 

[rk8531]

Is SFQ queue decipline different than FreshJR's implementation? I'm not familiar at all with any of this stuff, tbh.

The other night, for the first time, I enabled Adaptive QoS, and selected 'Games' mode. I only game on a windows PC. I also selected Automatic Settings for Bandwidth Settings. Do these other implementations offer a better solution and how? Just customizable or are there better controlling type options that is offered over Adaptive QoS?

Thanks.

FreshJr implementation of the QoS is based on fq_codel. I didn't try fq_codel because I am not experiencing buffer bloats with SFQ mode.

 

[Dave Parker]

I would agree with Klueless, unless you have really fast internet Qos is provably best left in it's default state. I would also highly recommend you ditch the Asus firmware and flash Merlins 384.10.2 and do a factory default reset after flashing. Check out any one of L&LDs latest post and follow the steps in his signature.

 

[randomName]

I would agree with Klueless, unless you have really fast internet Qos is provably best left in it's default state. I would also highly recommend you ditch the Asus firmware and flash Merlins 384.10.2 and do a factory default reset after flashing. Check out any one of L&LDs latest post and follow the steps in his signature.

The benefits I'm looking for is reduced buffer bloat/low latency for PC gaming. I use to run his firmware on my N66U. It's nice but I'm looking for the benefits of reducing buffer bloat the most. If there is good reason to switching could you please explain why in detail? Thanks

 

[randomName]

FreshJr implementation of the QoS is based on fq_codel. I didn't try fq_codel because I am not experiencing buffer bloats with SFQ mode.

Is there a home page for that?

 

[Dave Parker]

The benefits I'm looking for is reduced buffer bloat/low latency for PC gaming. I use to run his firmware on my N66U. It's nice but I'm looking for the benefits of reducing buffer bloat the most. If there is good reason to switching could you please explain why in detail? Thanks

My main reason for using Merlins firmware is the bug fixes and security updates much sooner than Asus does, if at all. I think you'll find the majority of folks who use Asus routers use Merlin's firmware, but that's just me. Also, if you have an issue with firmware you can ask here. Merlin is usually around. Good luck trying to get an answer from Asus.

 

[Klueless]

The benefits I'm looking for is reduced buffer bloat/low latency for PC gaming

Latency is typically a function of distance and hops. Kinda luck of the draw there. I'm not a gamer, but ... some services are big enough / popular enough such that they have multiple servers, say an east coast server and a west coast server. Depending on your DNS server it may, or may not, send you to the best/closest server for your app. (Leaves me wondering if the locations of your opponents comes into play?)

Anyway, most important is how long a packet sits queued up in your router waiting for delivery; that is a huge factor in latency. That's where bandwidth limiters and QoS come to play. It could be useful if we knew what your Internet service speeds were?

Then we have the conspiracy theorists. Some, for example, feel that their local provider throttles back things like PSN (the Play Station Network).

Others feel that things like MTU come into play. The default of 1500 "should" be fine but, I suppose, there's always the chance of a weak link somewhere in the path that can't handle that large a packet. (PSNers, for example, suggest 1473.) IF that's the case things will still work but oversized packets will become two packets (fragmentation) which will add to latency.

IMO Internet speed tests that measure buffer bloat are most useful for slower speed networks as they measure a saturated network. I'm not sure how useful they are for high speed networks as most of us won't saturate a high speed link.

 

[Klueless]

highly recommend you ditch the Asus firmware and flash Merlins

Love Merlin's firmware but I'm far lazier than you. I typically "burn in" my router with stock for a few weeks. If life is wonderful I leave it be. If I find myself needing a feature (or a bug fix) I'll load Merlin. (So far out of five routers I've loaded Merlin three times.) This approach also allows me to really appreciate Eric's efforts : -)

 

[randomName]

I am absolutely 100% not referring to "low latency" as rtt, I am referring to the router bloat, or the time a packet is sitting in queue in my router. Anytime a packet is sitting anywhere it is creating latency. So a packet is sitting in my router is what I'm trying to understand and how to reduce that latency, if there is any, hah. My understanding is this is called buffer bloat or as I have interchangeably used the term latency.

I have set my router to Adaptive QoS, and used Automatic for the bandwidth setting, and then have selected Gaming for the usage scenario.

I guess the most prudent question is how does one tell if there is buffer bloat on their router? It seems from the questions you are asking me I might be asking the wrong questions first.

I'm also very interested in CoDel. This seems to be the root of all the implementations that I am seeing, e.g. FreshJr's approach, SFQ_CoDel, FQ_Codel, etc. Again I'm not sure if CoDel is the root solution for buffer bloat, or if it even was created to improve buffer bloat, but if I am trying to turn a wrench by asking how do I use an orange to turn said wrench, let me know, hah, thanks.

 

[L&LD]

I am absolutely 100% not referring to "low latency" as rtt, I am referring to the router bloat, or the time a packet is sitting in queue in my router. Anytime a packet is sitting anywhere it is creating latency. So a packet is sitting in my router is what I'm trying to understand and how to reduce that latency, if there is any, hah. My understanding is this is called buffer bloat or as I have interchangeably used the term latency.

I have set my router to Adaptive QoS, and used Automatic for the bandwidth setting, and then have selected Gaming for the usage scenario.

I guess the most prudent question is how does one tell if there is buffer bloat on their router? It seems from the questions you are asking me I might be asking the wrong questions first.

I'm also very interested in CoDel. This seems to be the root of all the implementations that I am seeing, e.g. FreshJr's approach, SFQ_CoDel, FQ_Codel, etc. Again I'm not sure if CoDel is the root solution for buffer bloat, or if it even was created to improve buffer bloat, but if I am trying to turn a wrench by asking how do I use an orange to turn said wrench, let me know, hah, thanks.

As far as I know, Adaptive QoS and Automatic (bandwidth) don't work properly.

Use a site like dslreports.com/speedtest and make sure you click the speedtest that matches your ISP connection.

Change the Auto bandwidth to Manual and now make changes, waiting at least 10 minutes after making a change in the GUI before running another speedtest from dslreports.

You'll soon find out that there is a sweet-spot for these settings with regards to bufferbloat and maximum up/down speeds. Choose the compromise that you can live with. What you will notice doing this is that the whole network is more responsive, including surfing the internet, of course.

 

[randomName]

As far as I know, Adaptive QoS and Automatic (bandwidth) don't work properly.

Use a site like dslreports.com/speedtest and make sure you click the speedtest that matches your ISP connection.

Change the Auto bandwidth to Manual and now make changes, waiting at least 10 minutes after making a change in the GUI before running another speedtest from dslreports.

You'll soon find out that there is a sweet-spot for these settings with regards to bufferbloat and maximum up/down speeds. Choose the compromise that you can live with. What you will notice doing this is that the whole network is more responsive, including surfing the internet, of course.

Thank you for the recommendation

What CoDel works best?

Or is Cake better?

 

[L&LD]

Thank you for the recommendation

What CoDel works best?

fq_codel.

 

[randomName]

fq_codel.

Is Cake better?

 

[L&LD]

Is Cake better?

Cake? Yes, chocolate cake is always better!

But I haven't used that on a router.