Solved Cable Modem->VLAN Tagged Switch->MoCA Adapter->MoCA Adapter->VLAN Tagged Switch->AX86U Router

[DeDragonSlayer]

That is so weird. I also have Netgear GS308T switches, and have them configured as pasted below - which I believe is logically identical to what @drinkingbird you suggested.
And it works just fine. No messing with management VLAN or anything else. I think it's the cleanest configuration possible.

On the router side switch I have the following connections:
g6 and g7 with VLANs 3 and 4 connected to respective router WAN ports ( have Dual WAN configured)
g1 with VLAN1 connected to any free LAN port on router
g8 is the trunk that carries all three VLANS with VLAN1 untagged and that goes to the MOCA adapter.

@GHammer - Apologies for jumping in the discussion, but it might be a helpful datapoint. Might it possibly be some missing setup on your router side?

 

[GHammer]

That is so weird. I also have Netgear GS308T switches, and have them configured as pasted below - which I believe is logically identical to what @drinkingbird you suggested.
And it works just fine. No messing with management VLAN or anything else. I think it's the cleanest configuration possible.

On the router side switch I have the following connections:
g6 and g7 with VLANs 3 and 4 connected to respective router WAN ports ( have Dual WAN configured)
g1 with VLAN1 connected to any free LAN port on router
g8 is the trunk that carries all three VLANS with VLAN1 untagged and that goes to the MOCA adapter.

@GHammer - Apologies for jumping in the discussion, but it might be a helpful datapoint. Might it possibly be some missing setup on your router side?

No problem jumping in.
I wonder what the difference is then?
I have everything up and running at the new location, and I simply did as I said, port 1 is VLAN 1, ports 2-6 are VLAN 20 (LAN), port 7 is tagged VLAN 10 & 20 (Trunk), port 8 is VLAN 10 (WAN)
I changed the management VLAN to 20 and have access to both switches from any LAN PC.

Why didn't I add port 1 to VLAN 20? No reason except I'm gunshy at this point. Not going to change a thing as it is not mine at this point. I like the setup enough that I may well retire my godawful Microtik switch in favor of a couple of these switches. The Microtik is only bad in its VLAN configuration. Its why I went with the Netgear for this. The Microtik does switching just fine, past that, well...

 

[GHammer]

Just change both switches to be managed in VLAN 20, and you're golden.

Ha! I did just that before reading.
Port 1 is VLAN 1, ports 2-6 are VLAN 20 (LAN), port 7 is tagged VLAN 10 & 20 (Trunk), port 8 is VLAN 10 (WAN)
I changed the management VLAN to 20 and have access to both switches from any LAN PC.

Port 1 was left alone because I'm kinda gun shy at this point.

Still and all, without your advice/tutelage, I would not have delivered a well received solution last night. They are SO happy to have internet again, and I was happy to provide it.
Popped right up all is working so well, I may rid myself of the Microtik switch and replace them with these switches. Can't beat them for USD60 each.

 

[GHammer]

@ColinTaylor @Crimliar

You were not far off, just that the PVID needed to be added to untagged ports and I could not get VLAN 1 to pass through the trunk, so I changed the management VLAN.
See right above for the final solution.

 

[drinkingbird]

Ha! I did just that before reading.
Port 1 is VLAN 1, ports 2-6 are VLAN 20 (LAN), port 7 is tagged VLAN 10 & 20 (Trunk), port 8 is VLAN 10 (WAN)
I changed the management VLAN to 20 and have access to both switches from any LAN PC.

Port 1 was left alone because I'm kinda gun shy at this point.

Still and all, without your advice/tutelage, I would not have delivered a well received solution last night. They are SO happy to have internet again, and I was happy to provide it.
Popped right up all is working so well, I may rid myself of the Microtik switch and replace them with these switches. Can't beat them for USD60 each.

Yeah unfortunately had I known your model supported changing the management VLAN (it looks like that feature may have been added at some point with firmware update, as when I originally googled it, found a discussion where they said it could not be changed, but the latest copy of the manual says it can), would have just stuck with the VLAN 10 and VLAN 20 original suggestion and not even mentioned the further steps to change to VLAN 1 for LAN. Not using 1 is cleaner, technically a bit more secure (not that it is an issue in home environment) and no need to fiddle with some things being tagged on the trunk and others being untagged.

What you have now is the ideal setup so you're good to go. I wouldn't worry about leaving a port in VLAN 1, it is basically inactive at this point, but if you've got the extra ports, no harm. Technically if VLAN 1 is still untagged on the trunk, those two ports should see each other and could be used if they ever needed some private ethernet connection between the two locations for something.

 

[GHammer]

What you have now is the ideal setup so you're good to go. I wouldn't worry about leaving a port in VLAN 1

Thanks again!
As you were somewhat concerned of the throughput over MoCA, here are two speed tests. One done from a machine connected to the router switch, one I took a laptop and connected it to the modem switch.
Neither are showing any loss and both are close in the measurements. This is a 600 Mbps down cable plan.

Off to put Pepsi in my Coke glass <g>.

Enjoy your weekend!

 

[degrub]

use Iperf to test across the MOCA nodes. Run one PC with server and another as client. Use about 10 parallel streams. COnfirm that you are getting full bandwidth for MOCA2 or 2.5 whichever you have. You may be able to log into the modems and check the diagnostics pages to see the sync rate.

 

[GHammer]

use Iperf to test across the MOCA nodes

Why? They have great internet speed.

 

[degrub]

What MOCA modems are you using ? i looked back but did not see the model #.
Why ? , for when you want/need full Gbit/s bandwidth or higher locally.
If not, then no worry.

 

[GHammer]

What MOCA modems are you using ?

I had an extra pair of goCoax MoCA Adapters WF-803M, which I'm not certain are sold now. I think goCoax have went with the MA2500C/D now. Those have a 2.5 Gbe LAN port vs the Gbe port on the 803s.

I'm going to pick up a pair of the 2500C as I have a similar use for them and they worked so well in this application.

I may do the throughput test on my install with the 2.5 Gbe ports as I may occasionally want higher bandwidth for my NAS. In the install I did for my friend, they simply needed internet to their living area and this total package provided that in spades.

 

[drinkingbird]

I had an extra pair of goCoax MoCA Adapters WF-803M, which I'm not certain are sold now. I think goCoax have went with the MA2500C/D now. Those have a 2.5 Gbe LAN port vs the Gbe port on the 803s.

I'm going to pick up a pair of the 2500C as I have a similar use for them and they worked so well in this application.

I may do the throughput test on my install with the 2.5 Gbe ports as I may occasionally want higher bandwidth for my NAS. In the install I did for my friend, they simply needed internet to their living area and this total package provided that in spades.

Honestly when you get to the point of wanting >1G, it is probably time to pull a CAT6A or 7 cable. CAT6 can probably handle 2.5 but might as well be future proof up to 10G. Of course, may be easier said than done, but worst case you run it outside the house and use outdoor rated cable. If you pull multiple cables you can set up LAG between most switches (and between the switch and host) now and get multiple gigs without having to spring for 10G switches (though 2.5G are more common now and a bit more affordable).

The encoding schemes needed to run 2.5G over coax start impacting latency and are extremely sensitive to interference. And if you're sharing that Coax plant with TVs etc that makes it all the more challenging.

Also worth noting, I believe the 2.5G is half duplex. Probably not a big issue for most but if you're shoving a big file to your NAS it will actually slow to below 2.5 since the ACKs are now getting delayed/dropped and retransmitted.

It is a great technology, but it has its limitations.

 

[GHammer]

Honestly when you get to the point of wanting >1G, it is probably time to pull a CAT6A or 7 cable. CAT6 can probably handle 2.5 but might as well be future proof up to 10G.

The encoding schemes needed to run 2.5G over coax start impacting latency and are extremely sensitive to interference. And if you're sharing that Coax plant with TVs etc that makes it all the more challenging.

Also worth noting, I believe the 2.5G is half duplex. Probably not a big issue for most but if you're shoving a big file to your NAS it will actually slow to below 2.5 since the ACKs are now getting delayed/dropped and retransmitted.

It is a great technology, but it has its limitations.

Yeah, I'd happily agree, cable is always better than any transmitted alternative. It's why I have switches to begin with, more wired devices less wireless.

After the install, I did do some testing just to see if any packets were being dropped. Ping from the router to a laptop plugged into the router switch and from the router to the laptop at the modem switch. The highest difference I saw was 4 ms, lowest was 3 ms. Majority were +3 ms. For day to day use no big deal. Gamers might not like it though.

What's your opinion on lower cost 10GBase-T SFP+ like this one? Amazon SFP+
If I were to pull cable myself, I'd want to make sure I didn't need to pull again.

 

[drinkingbird]

Yeah, I'd happily agree, cable is always better than any transmitted alternative. It's why I have switches to begin with, more wired devices less wireless.

After the install, I did do some testing just to see if any packets were being dropped. Ping from the router to a laptop plugged into the router switch and from the router to the laptop at the modem switch. The highest difference I saw was 4 ms, lowest was 3 ms. Majority were +3 ms. For day to day use no big deal. Gamers might not like it though.

What's your opinion on lower cost 10GBase-T SFP+ like this one? Amazon SFP+
If I were to pull cable myself, I'd want to make sure I didn't need to pull again.

I don't have any experience with off-brand SFPs so can't really comment on that, guess you'd just have to look at the reviews and give it a shot. As far as cabling, CAT6A or 7 will both do 10G just fine as long as you follow the distance and termination rules. If you want to go to 40G or 100G then you'll probably be replacing that cable with fiber anyway. You could do 40G over 4 parallel runs of CAT6A, but that may be more wire than you want to run especially if on the outside of the house (not to mention needing 8 SFPs and switches that can handle that). I guess if you wanted to somewhat future proof for your backbone connection you'd want to run some OS2 single mode fiber (the best available right now) but that'll be a lot more expensive, and in 5-10 years they'll probably have an OS3 for 1 terabit. Unfortunately there is no such thing as future proof in this area.

Though I think it will be a really long time before 10G is not enough for the home environment.... I did my whole house with CAT6A when I redid it about 10 years ago and haven't even utilized it yet, I'm still 1G and have not seen a need to go beyond that.

 

[GHammer]

I'm still 1G and have not seen a need to go beyond that.

If I did, it would be to do it.
Like you, I'm happy with my Gb network.
I don't move large files to/from the NAS. It's more small files. Mainly used as part of my backup plan.
We watch TV off a networked cable card tuner.

If I get new switches, I'll get something with the ability to do a 10Gb trunk. But nothing I have would connect at 10, and I have no need to upgrade.

Have a good weekend.