CakeQOS CakeQoS Jitter

[SilentStorm]

The way your are setup is fine. If you set DNS on your Asus Router to opendns or on your workstation, then you will be using opendns and getting all the benefits. You Asus router sees the XB6 as it's next hop router which probably has a gig link so you are not going to overload that. The interface of concern is the one of the XB6 to the ISP's router. If you are happy with jitter in synthetic tests or to 8.8.8.8 then you are fine. If you want to test further you can get on the XB6 and see it's default gateway that's the one you want to test to. Another way to find it is on your Asus router lower left corner "Network Tools" tab. Then top left tab "Network Analysis" select Method "Traceroute: and trace to any outside host for example www.google.com
The first hop listed will be the XB6, the next one might be *** which is ok. Just use the first one that lists and test to it. The timings you see next to the address are pings.

It sounds like you are well on the way to a much better experience

Morris

Interesting, I'm still receiving quite a bit of jitter, and I even tried to ping the IP you mentioned when I did the trace route (started with 99.xxxx)

Will changing the channel on my router help with this any at all? I know it's only for WiFi.

Also, I'm not sure what the difference is between the DNS setting under LAN and the DNS setting under WAN. Can you help me with that?

I know the last time I messed with this was on stock firmware, but when I did set a DNS server there, I was no longer able to access the router page. So it was weird.

Thanks again for your help thus far.

 

[DeepWoods]

Connect your computer directly to the XB6 and run the test at this website: https://www.meter.net/ping-test/

That test is similar to the Network Analysis ping that you were doing on the router.

You should get very low jitter (1 or 2 ms). I suspect you will see much bigger numbers.

You can also run dslreports and speedtest while directly connected, but those tests don't focus on ping.

I believe there is a problem between the XB6 and your ISP's network.

When I ping google.com, I am getting 9ms avg with 3ms jitter. Something is definitely wrong.

I don't think you have anything wrong with your router (or your WiFi channel ;-) and I suspect that there isn't anything wrong with the DNS you were using (though OpenDNS is undoubtedly better). I suspect that your actual internet connection (between XB6 and ISP) is the source of all your jitter and it is outside of your direct control.

1. When you were running connmon between your router and the XB6 (10.0.0.1), it showed that your router was working GREAT (never any jitter between the router and the XB6).
2. When you run any kind of "ping" deeper into the network (whether it be a DNS server, google.com, or the first IP hop (99.XXXX) device in your ISP's network), you are seeing too much jitter.

You need to fix the fact that a computer connected directly to the XB6 results in jitter. The only way to resolve that is to talk to your ISP. Is anything else connecting to the XB6? If you are connecting your computer directly to the XB6 and you aren't getting great results, adding a router can't fix things after the fact (though limiting the bandwidth with QoS can help to avoid over-running things, it can't eliminate an underlying problem).

When dealing with an ISP issue, the ISP usually prefers that a computer be directly connected (so they aren't diagnosing problems with customer's home networks). If dslreports and speedtest don't show your jitter problem, share the results of the ping-test above. You need to collect data and nag your ISP until things are fixed, then fine tune your router. If your ping-test results look great (on a directly connected computer), I am thoroughly confused...

 

[SilentStorm]

Connect your computer directly to the XB6 and run the test at this website: https://www.meter.net/ping-test/

That test is similar to the Network Analysis ping that you were doing on the router.

You should get very low jitter (1 or 2 ms). I suspect you will see much bigger numbers.

You can also run dslreports and speedtest while directly connected, but those tests don't focus on ping.

I believe there is a problem between the XB6 and your ISP's network.

When I ping google.com, I am getting 9ms avg with 3ms jitter. Something is definitely wrong.

I don't think you have anything wrong with your router (or your WiFi channel ;-) and I suspect that there isn't anything wrong with the DNS you were using (though OpenDNS is undoubtedly better). I suspect that your actual internet connection (between XB6 and ISP) is the source of all your jitter and it is outside of your direct control.

1. When you were running connmon between your router and the XB6 (10.0.0.1), it showed that your router was working GREAT (never any jitter between the router and the XB6).
2. When you run any kind of "ping" deeper into the network (whether it be a DNS server, google.com, or the first IP hop (99.XXXX) device in your ISP's network), you are seeing too much jitter.

You need to fix the fact that a computer connected directly to the XB6 results in jitter. The only way to resolve that is to talk to your ISP. Is anything else connecting to the XB6? If you are connecting your computer directly to the XB6 and you aren't getting great results, adding a router can't fix things after the fact (though limiting the bandwidth with QoS can help to avoid over-running things, it can't eliminate an underlying problem).

When dealing with an ISP issue, the ISP usually prefers that a computer be directly connected (so they aren't diagnosing problems with customer's home networks). If dslreports and speedtest don't show your jitter problem, share the results of the ping-test above. You need to collect data and nag your ISP until things are fixed, then fine tune your router. If your ping-test results look great (on a directly connected computer), I am thoroughly confused...

Thank you so much for this helpful information.

I plugged an ethernet cord from the XB6 directly into the computer and I'm still getting some pretty high jitter numbers, so it does seem like it is an ISP issue.

There are many other things connected to the XB6, but it's nothing new.... No new devices were added (other than the router) and I've never had these problems before. The reason why I bought a high end router was to help with high latency spikes and bufferbloat (and it certainly helped, A LOT.)

I suspect it's because we recently went into lockdown here with a Stay at Home order, and it seems like perhaps because everyone's at home, the lines are getting too congested? My ISP is allowing us to upgrade to an XB7 so I'm not sure if that'll help or not. My ISP is Rogers Canada in case you're wondering.

My bufferbloat tests are great, consistent A-A+.

Question as well, when I went to go ping my ISP's DNS server (Rogers Canada), the line quality kept coming back in the 50%, is this alarming? Is this what could be causing the problem?

 

[SilentStorm]

Connect your computer directly to the XB6 and run the test at this website: https://www.meter.net/ping-test/

That test is similar to the Network Analysis ping that you were doing on the router.

You should get very low jitter (1 or 2 ms). I suspect you will see much bigger numbers.

You can also run dslreports and speedtest while directly connected, but those tests don't focus on ping.

I believe there is a problem between the XB6 and your ISP's network.

When I ping google.com, I am getting 9ms avg with 3ms jitter. Something is definitely wrong.

I don't think you have anything wrong with your router (or your WiFi channel ;-) and I suspect that there isn't anything wrong with the DNS you were using (though OpenDNS is undoubtedly better). I suspect that your actual internet connection (between XB6 and ISP) is the source of all your jitter and it is outside of your direct control.

1. When you were running connmon between your router and the XB6 (10.0.0.1), it showed that your router was working GREAT (never any jitter between the router and the XB6).
2. When you run any kind of "ping" deeper into the network (whether it be a DNS server, google.com, or the first IP hop (99.XXXX) device in your ISP's network), you are seeing too much jitter.

You need to fix the fact that a computer connected directly to the XB6 results in jitter. The only way to resolve that is to talk to your ISP. Is anything else connecting to the XB6? If you are connecting your computer directly to the XB6 and you aren't getting great results, adding a router can't fix things after the fact (though limiting the bandwidth with QoS can help to avoid over-running things, it can't eliminate an underlying problem).

When dealing with an ISP issue, the ISP usually prefers that a computer be directly connected (so they aren't diagnosing problems with customer's home networks). If dslreports and speedtest don't show your jitter problem, share the results of the ping-test above. You need to collect data and nag your ISP until things are fixed, then fine tune your router. If your ping-test results look great (on a directly connected computer), I am thoroughly confused...

Wanted to show you this graph as well.. I've let it pinging overnight (every 10 minutes). Significantly less jitter overnight, so it perhaps does seem like it is network congestion? But by who? Is it me or is it my ISP? My package is 500/20. At about 10 AM, we have an additional two laptops connected to the internet doing something overnight... It's definitely odd.

More testing done... something is definitely going on. Upload speeds are going downhill quick, and it doesn't seem like it's from me. I'm getting 2mb upload. Asked my friend who's about a block away with the same ISP and he's having the same issue. Definitely going to give them a call now.

 

[dave14305]

Question as well, when I went to go ping my ISP's DNS server (Rogers Canada), the line quality kept coming back in the 50%, is this alarming? Is this what could be causing the problem?

A DNS server's primary function is to respond to DNS requests. Responding to ping requests is a secondary concern, and probably not a priority for your ISP. Pick a different ping target.

 

[Morris]

Thank you so much for this helpful information.

I plugged an ethernet cord from the XB6 directly into the computer and I'm still getting some pretty high jitter numbers, so it does seem like it is an ISP issue.

There are many other things connected to the XB6, but it's nothing new.... No new devices were added (other than the router) and I've never had these problems before. The reason why I bought a high end router was to help with high latency spikes and bufferbloat (and it certainly helped, A LOT.)

I suspect it's because we recently went into lockdown here with a Stay at Home order, and it seems like perhaps because everyone's at home, the lines are getting too congested? My ISP is allowing us to upgrade to an XB7 so I'm not sure if that'll help or not. My ISP is Rogers Canada in case you're wondering.

My bufferbloat tests are great, consistent A-A+.

Question as well, when I went to go ping my ISP's DNS server (Rogers Canada), the line quality kept coming back in the 50%, is this alarming? Is this what could be causing the problem?

Connecting to the XB6 is without cake. I don't understand the value of what DeepWoods suggested is. Also, it's pinging far away hosts so any congestion on the internet will impact results

 

[Morris]

View attachment 30931

Wanted to show you this graph as well.. I've let it pinging overnight (every 10 minutes). Significantly less jitter overnight, so it perhaps does seem like it is network congestion? But by who? Is it me or is it my ISP? My package is 500/20. At about 10 AM, we have an additional two laptops connected to the internet doing something overnight... It's definitely odd.

More testing done... something is definitely going on. Upload speeds are going downhill quick, and it doesn't seem like it's from me. I'm getting 2mb upload. Asked my friend who's about a block away with the same ISP and he's having the same issue. Definitely going to give them a call now.

What were you pinging?

 

[DeepWoods]

The congestion (which does appear to be driven by human usage patterns) could be:

1. The "many other things connected to the XB6". Do you have any way of knowing the load which is being put on the XB6 from these other devices? Any way of controlling them? If they are putting a significant load on your connection to the ISP, that is where you need QoS to run (not one hop away on your router). 20 Mbps is a lot of upload bandwidth. You would need LOTS of people holding video conferences, or seeding bit-torrents, to use it up.

2. The connection between the XB6 and the internet (the XB6 itself, your cable connection, the ISP's network). You can't isolate anything, as a consumer. You can only complain, but it is hard to complain if you don't have a handle on #1. You need to take measurements and share them with your ISP. An XB7 could help, if the XB6 is the source of the congestion, but not if the congestion is within the ISP's network.

If you can't get the other devices removed from the XB6, and plugged into your router, you can't manage or diagnose your connection to the ISP (unless the XB6 has a GUI for you to triage the situation). You can't know the proper values to configure QoS on your router, if other devices are sharing the XB6.

I don't think any of your issues involve your router but if you don't have everything connected through your router (with only your router connecting to the XB6), you won't have control over your situation.

I suspect your problem is with your ISP, because 500/20 should be a challenge for any household to congest, but it is good to know for certain how much of a burden you are putting on the XB6 from all those other devices.

Morris does have a point about the use of the ping-test website. I just wanted to provide a quick way to test your ping from a PC, since I do not think there is any issue with your router. The best thing to ping, to isolate your problem, is the 99.xxxx address you got earlier from the traceroute (the first hop within the ISP's network). You can ping that from the router or you can ping from a cmd console on a windows PC. Both should give the same type of results, where the cause of any jitter could be your ISP or the many other things connected to the XB6.

 

[SilentStorm]

The congestion (which does appear to be driven by human usage patterns) could be:

1. The "many other things connected to the XB6". Do you have any way of knowing the load which is being put on the XB6 from these other devices? Any way of controlling them? If they are putting a significant load on your connection to the ISP, that is where you need QoS to run (not one hop away on your router). 20 Mbps is a lot of upload bandwidth. You would need LOTS of people holding video conferences, or seeding bit-torrents, to use it up.

2. The connection between the XB6 and the internet (the XB6 itself, your cable connection, the ISP's network). You can't isolate anything, as a consumer. You can only complain, but it is hard to complain if you don't have a handle on #1. You need to take measurements and share them with your ISP. An XB7 could help, if the XB6 is the source of the congestion, but not if the congestion is within the ISP's network.

If you can't get the other devices removed from the XB6, and plugged into your router, you can't manage or diagnose your connection to the ISP (unless the XB6 has a GUI for you to triage the situation). You can't know the proper values to configure QoS on your router, if other devices are sharing the XB6.

I don't think any of your issues involve your router but if you don't have everything connected through your router (with only your router connecting to the XB6), you won't have control over your situation.

I suspect your problem is with your ISP, because 500/20 should be a challenge for any household to congest, but it is good to know for certain how much of a burden you are putting on the XB6 from all those other devices.

Morris does have a point about the use of the ping-test website. I just wanted to provide a quick way to test your ping from a PC, since I do not think there is any issue with your router. The best thing to ping, to isolate your problem, is the 99.xxxx address you got earlier from the traceroute (the first hop within the ISP's network). You can ping that from the router or you can ping from a cmd console on a windows PC. Both should give the same type of results, where the cause of any jitter could be your ISP or the many other things connected to the XB6.

I'm suspecting that it is an ISP issue. This issue seems to happen when our upload speeds are having issues. There are times when our upload speeds won't exceed 10 mb. They'll jump to 10 mb then start to sink down to 1mb. Then the jitter starts spiking. We've let our ISP know about this issue and they were out yesterday working on it. I've let my router ping 8.8.8.8 overnight, and here are the results. Much better than they were before, and hoping this gets fixed.

Another thing they told me to do is unplug all cables connected to my XB6 (power, coax, etc), and leave the unplugged for a couple of minutes, and that also seemed to have helped.

As you said, 500/20 is a lot to congest. We've had the same amount of tech connected for the past year. The only addition we made was a gaming computer, and gaming doesn't require a lot of bandwidth to begin with.

We always have under 16 devices connected to the internet (which is what our ISP says is the recommended number of devices for this package, but I'm not really buying that, I don't see why you can't connect more).

 

[Morris]

View attachment 31011

I'm suspecting that it is an ISP issue. This issue seems to happen when our upload speeds are having issues. There are times when our upload speeds won't exceed 10 mb. They'll jump to 10 mb then start to sink down to 1mb. Then the jitter starts spiking. We've let our ISP know about this issue and they were out yesterday working on it. I've let my router ping 8.8.8.8 overnight, and here are the results. Much better than they were before, and hoping this gets fixed.

Another thing they told me to do is unplug all cables connected to my XB6 (power, coax, etc), and leave the unplugged for a couple of minutes, and that also seemed to have helped.

As you said, 500/20 is a lot to congest. We've had the same amount of tech connected for the past year. The only addition we made was a gaming computer, and gaming doesn't require a lot of bandwidth to begin with.

We always have under 16 devices connected to the internet (which is what our ISP says is the recommended number of devices for this package, but I'm not really buying that, I don't see why you can't connect more).

The ISP guidelines for how many devices to connect is a generalization and not based on the load a device can produce. Gaming may not demand bandwidth yet some games can generate very high packet rates and this can tax a router that dose not have a powerful enough CPU. As the Jitter on that 8.8.8.8 ping is fine I think you don't need to worry. If you can get similar low jitter while loading the link you are fine.

Morris