Can someone explain the ins & outs of router speeds to me?

[louwin]

I have an N600 gigabit modem/router at the moment. I also have an iPad Air, iPhone 5S, new desktop with inbuilt Wifi, an old desktop(wired), a laptop, a 3Tb NAS and a new Smart 3D TV. My (new) desktop is currently also wired into the modem. The laptop is wireless and the TV is wireless. Both the laptop and the new desktop are Windows 8.1 Pro, the old desktop is Windows 7.

If I try to watch a large 3D video file(over 12Gb) on my TV, off (a shared folder on) my desktop or off my NAS, the movie constantly "buffers" (the dreaded spinning arrow). This suggests to me that the TV can't stream fast enough from the shared folder on the desktop or NAS. Right?

So I bought a new super duper Netgear 3200AC Tri-Band Wifi Router. It does N600(2.4GHz) and 2 X 1300AC(5GHz) Wifi bands. I have read extensively about wireless speed comparisons etc but I still have a couple of basic questions?

I assume 1300AC is faster than a wired gigabit connection? So if I go "wireless" from my desktop it should be faster than "wired"? Right?

The NAS is gigabit "wired" so no improvement there? Right?

The Smart TV is currently limited by the N600? Right? So the AC1300 SHOULD vastly improve it's streaming? Right? From the desktop AND from the NAS? Right?

Assume that when I'm watching TV the desktop is switched on, obviously the TV is switched on, the laptop is switched off, the iPad maybe on and the iPhone is basically off. Assume that everything is new enough to use the "AC" band.

So the 2 X AC1300 should be a vast improvement on the N600? Right?

I also have a WD TV SMP which will use the 2.4GHz band and, since it isn't sharing the band, should be faster? Right?

Even though I have been programming for 40 years I am terrified of "hardware". The thought of turning my functional modem/router to bridge mode and connecting my new router frightens me. What if it doesn't work? And I can't go back? What if the new router is faulty? How will I know? Besides it not working?

I am going to switch now so, hopefully, I will read your responses through my super duper router

I would appreciate an answer from a "Wifi expert".

Thanks in anticipation.....

 

[stevech]

802.11ac is often/usually a minor improvement over good 802.11n.

Two things

Have you connected the TV to the router using a cat5 cable? Temporarily strung on the floor if need be. This is to prove that streaming can work, if WiFi is not in the path.

Then, tell us what the signal strength is and the connection WiFi raw bit rate. You should get good streaming with $75 WiFi gear. If the signal strength and WiFi raw bit rates are BOTH good, but still have buffering, then have you put the router in manual channel choices of 1, 6 or 11? Some of those channels may be intermittently loaded with traffic at a neighbor's home's WiFi on or within 2 channels of yours.

Streaming 1080i is if'y on WiFi long term unless you're in a rural area.

Once we exhaust these options, then we look at using HomePlug/HPNA or MoCA instead of WiFi. Or buy 5.8GHz WiFi gear to get away from the crowded 2.4GHz band. But it is likely that crowded channels are not the problem.

 

[AdvHomeServer]

Directly and indirectly, you asked a lot of questions.

Directly, you wondered about how much routers, wired, and wireless affect getting the file to the end device. Indirectly, you asked a lot of questions about basic networking and how it works. There's no way to cover that range of direct and implied interest in a few paragraphs.

To skim off the surface ...

Wireless speeds are theoretical. Nobody ever gets anything close to them in real life. Lots of things matter, such as router capabilities, interference from neighbors using the same channels, congestion from someone else downloading at the same time, distance the signal travels and the obstacles encountered, problems with router firmware, G,N,AC, and more.

Wires from the router to the end device are best, but not always practical. HomePlug is a great innovation but may not work the same for 'A' as it does for 'B'.

Not all N600 routers are the same. My old Netgear WNDR3400v1 is a shadow of my Asus RT-N56U but both are fine for certain levels of use. Even a N150 travel router from TP-Link does a great job in certain cases. A busy household with lots of simultaneous users would be better off with the RT-N56U than the WNDR3400V1. A couple of light users could get by with the WNDR3400v1 and possible even less, such as the travel router.

Right now I'm using two AC class routers; one is a wireless bridge and has media devices wired to it. I tested actual AC speeds between them once and they were about 300Mbits to 400Mbits between the two routers. If I had played around maybe I could have gotten better but these speeds are way beyond my media needs.

AC can't be used without an AC class card in the receiving device. To some extent, AC and 5GHz in general are marketing hype unless you have a busy network and know how to apply the technology. Just buying it will not make a hint of difference otherwise. The ads never say that. You're just supposed to know.

Like all technology, the marketers would like to make you think just buying this new thing will change your life automatically for the better. In reality, you need to actually sit down and work at learning new things. Sorry to be a buzz kill.

 

[thiggins]

Many of your questions about wireless throughput are explained here http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...316-how-to-buy-a-wireless-router-2014-edition

 

[azazel1024]

Also not entirely addressed here.

What adapter is in the TV? Getting a better router isn't likely to improve the connection to the TV much if the current router already was as fast or faster than the client in the TV (most Smart TVs are single band, or occasionally dual band single stream 11n adapters. Occasionally dual stream (IE N150 or N300 maximum speeds). What band is the TV connecting on? 2.4 or 5GHz?

How far away is the TV from the router? Same room? Within a couple of feet? across the room? Across the house?

If it is too close (within a couple of feet) or across the house, likely no upgrade will improve things. In both cases, it needs to be moved, either to several feet (WiFi generally doesn't like being within 2-3ft, unless there is obstructions in the way, as it overpowers the receiver) or within a room or too if too far away.

11ac CAN improve old 11n gear somewhat. SMB and my own personal testing has shown that, though generally only at medium to long ranges. Close range, the improvements are going to be very minor.

I would deffinitely run a cable for now to ensure that the setup is capable of doing the streaming period. If it can't, look elsewhere for the problem. You can also "upgrade" the TV if you need to. Options are things like a Fire TV (full or stick), AppleTV, Roku, WDTV, etc depending on needs/wants.

Frankly I'd NEVER consider a smart TV a desirable feature. Generally too many vulns, poor support, crappy interface, poor wireless (and/or NO wired) performance often times, etc. I'd rather standardize everything in my house across one streaming option (in my case, I prefer AppleTV and have iTunes running on my server to feed it).

At any rate, try wired if you can, even if it means you need to buy a really long cable to hook it up temporarily. If that'll work, look more at an inexpensive 11ac router. That "AC3200" "behemoth" isn't likely to preform much if any better for what you'd likely need/want than a $100-150 AC1750 router will.

 

[louwin]

Just quickly as I'm on my way to play badminton....

The TV is about 2 months old. It is a Sony 70W850B and a quick scan of the User Guide (iManual) says 802.11n and it IS 5GHz.

It is 20 feet away from the N600 modem.

I already have the new router, it is just a question whether I connect it or return it for a refund. It is the Netgear Nighthawk X6 R8000 AC3200.

I HAVE two LONG CAT-6 cables to my 2 desktops. I can pull the one off the old desktop and try it?

Thanks for your responses

 

[azazel1024]

Unless the store policy where you bought it is you can't return opened items, I'd hook it up since you already have it.

Is is 20ft line of sight? Or is it through one or many walls?

Yes, I'd still try wired to compare.

 

[colecaz]

The very first thing to realize is that your user devices (TV, Laptop, etc) HAVE to have dual stream, AC1200 rated (or higher), wifi adapters to match the wireless router capabilities. If both users and router are not equal in their wireless speed capability, the slowest one sets the speed.

And lots of devices advertise being N class wireless but don't have dual stream capability and thus don't get beyond 150 mpbs (for N class wireless).

And the fastest internal wireless user adapters I've seen are the Intel AC devices at 866 mbps for 5 GHz and 300 mbps for 2.4 GHz. There are some external adapters that are higher speed. Check Google or Amazon.

IMHO, buying anything above AC1200 is wasted money at this time.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[azazel1024]

The very first thing to realize is that your user devices (TV, Laptop, etc) HAVE to have dual stream, AC1200 rated (or higher), wifi adapters to match the wireless router capabilities. If both users and router are not equal in their wireless speed capability, the slowest one sets the speed.

And lots of devices advertise being N class wireless but don't have dual stream capability and thus don't get beyond 150 mpbs (for N class wireless).

And the fastest internal wireless user adapters I've seen are the Intel AC devices at 866 mbps for 5 GHz and 300 mbps for 2.4 GHz. There are some external adapters that are higher speed. Check Google or Amazon.

IMHO, buying anything above AC1200 is wasted money at this time.

Hope this is helpful.

Not entirely. There are a small number of AC1733 capable adpaters. Some Apple products have 3 stream ac adapters in them. Very, very few in the wild currently.

There are other advantages, namely for legacy clients that are N900. Also if there is explicit beamforming in the product, there is likely at least a small boost in gain from having 3/4 streams over 2, even when connecting to a 1/2 stream client. I'll grant the gains are likely rather small, but it is possible in some circumstances (which means higher actual throughput).

For the monetary difference, I'd say no, it probably isn't worth it. But I would not say wasted money.

 

[louwin]

Just a quick update....

Yesterday (Sunday) tried the installation....

Did all the right things.

Closed ALL programs that access the net on my "wired" desktop.

Went into the TP-Link N600 modem/router (192.168.1.1) and changed to "Bridge" mode. It released everything but I turned it off anyway. I normally use Firefox but used IE

Plugged the yellow ethernet cable into the LAN/WAN port of the modem and the other end into the INTERNET port of the router.

Moved my "wired" cable from the modem to the router.

Tried everything I couldn't get it to work (And you wonder why I am afraid of hardware)

The "Power" LED would sometimes blink orange (which suggested the firmware was being updated????). The "Internet" LED was first solid white then changed to orange. Then blinked orange

Tried everything. Even swapped the ethernet cable (used the one off my NAS that has been working for months) - no luck.

Logged into the Wifi with my iPad and logged in with (www.routerlogin.net) the Internet had an "X" on it and the tab was "greyed out".

Gave up and went to play cards for a while.

Tried again later, still no luck.

Then couldn't get the modem/router out of "Bridge" mode, had to do a "Factory Defaults" reset. Did I mention, I hate hardware?

Will give it a try again NOW. In desperation I borrowed an old Netgear DGND3700v2 to try in place of my TP-Link.

Fingers crossed....

 

[azazel1024]

Are you sure it released the IP address? Most combos that I have seen, you have to release the IP manually and then set it in to bridge mode.

 

[louwin]

After MUCH messing about I got it connected. I tried 2 desktops, 2 modem/routers, 3 cables, an iPad and a temporarily wired laptop, Windows 7 and 8.1(X2).

The final clue was the white/orange blinking power LED. I suspected it was in firmware update mode and it WAS (or whatever?).

Somehow it was stuck in firmware update mode!? It kept saying the 'net wasn't there and the ethernet cable was not connected and other misleading errors....

Did a "Factory Reset" on the router and the Genie came up in the browser. From there it was plain sailing.

Just in case anyone else hits the same symptoms