Can WiFi interfere with MoCA?

[namurt]

Quick bit of history:

1.) I have FiOS internet and TV service.
2.) I have ethernet coming from my ONT into my own router, and then the Verizon router (Actiontec) is bridged with my router (LAN-to-LAN).
3.) Via this configuration, the Actiontec is doing nothing but providing guide and video on demand data to my set top boxes via MoCA. I don't use it as a router or an AP.

For the longest time, I've had hiccups with video on demand. I get graphical glitches and audio stutters (and only with HD content, interestingly). If I remove my own router and run straight from the ONT into the Actiontec, the issues disappear.

I very recently upgraded from a Linksys WRT320N, to a Netgear R7000, and now my issues have gotten even worse.

The Netgear and Actiontec are sitting on the same shelf in my "wannabe rack" in my basement. After poking around on the dslreports.com forums, it was suggested to move the Actiontec further away from my router.

I'm running both bands on the router. Can the WiFi traffic on the router really be causing interference with the Actiontec and messing up my MoCa network?

I'm thinking about replacing the Actiontec entirely with an ECB2500 (straight up MoCA adapter minus all the router/AP frills that I don't need). I don't want to do this if this interference could be a real possibility. The thing is, I don't really have a whole lot of wiggle room as far as moving the Actiontec (or adapter in the future) much further away from the router.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Razor512]

same setup here, actiontec is connected to the R7000 via a LAN to LAN.

The key to fixing the on demand, as well as issues with remote DVR, is to make sure that the proper ports are forwarded.

Also make sure that the DHCP on the actiontec is disabled in addition to its wifi.

Remote DVR expects the router to tell the verizon servers that it is on IP 192.168.1.100 so make the DVR have a static IP.

Also clone the WAN mac address of the actiontec router (if not, verizon eventually deactivates the remote DVR service until you connect the actiontec crap at the main router again.

Port forward settings:
forward ports (for both TCP and UDP) for the DVR
63145
63146

35000 (forward this external port to the internal port 8082)

also make sure the network layout in the actiontec settings looks like this http://i.imgur.com/cUU8oTl.jpg

also make sure that your ethernet cable between the ONT and router are in good condition (make sure it is not one of those 4 wire 100mbit capable only ethernet cables. On demand needs dedicated 30+mbit/s.

if your router is listed as

MI424WR-GEN2
Hardware Version: E

That model will only support up to 3 HD on demand streams at 1 time before you get lag issues.

You may occasionally run into issues with the caller ID info showing up on the TV on set top boxes that are not on the DMZ. I have no idea why this happens as the actiontec has no port forward rules for the caller ID, though that still does not explain why caller ID will work for more than a month at a time before you need to restart the STB

 

[namurt]

Wow!

Thanks for the incredibly detailed reply. No one has ever taken the time to explain in such great detail, and I've been asking questions about this VOD issue for a looong time.

I have a followup question. I don't use DVR at all. I have two Cisco CHS 335HDC STBs, both running the latest IMG (which I think is 1.9.6).

Should I still forward all these ports? And do I still need to set a static IP of 192.168.1.100? I'm using 192.168.1.2 at the moment. (edit: Perhaps a stupid question, but I'm assuming the port forwards need to be done on my main router only and not on the Actiontec?)

My network layout matches the picture you provided. I used the dslreports.com FAQ to setup my LAN-to-LAN bridge.

I have 4-pair 24AWG Cat6 running from the ONT to the router. I have 4-pair 24AWG Cat5e running from the router to the Actiontec. My Actiontec is a Rev F.

edit #2: I thought of one last thing. On the Actiontec, can I disable DNS? I don't see why the Actiontec would need it?

 

[Razor512]

The static IP's are more for matching the setup that the STB's will be under when the actiontec is used as the main router. as the verizon servers will occasionally use the remote access functionality on the STB (it allows verizon CSR's to remotely login to the STB (port 8082), and basically see everything that is going on. Their servers seem to automatically poll the STB's and if they see a config that will look like you are not using the actiontec router as the main, then they will disable the remote DVR.

For the actiontec just disabling the DHCP is enough as at that point, it will no longer be used as a DNS server either.

PS also change the IP of the router to something like 192.1168.1.16 or any other random local IP that you are not using, this is so you can still access the router while in the LAN to LAN config.

overall, matching the IP ranges, keeps verizon from deactivating the services on https://www.verizon.com/fiostv/myservices/members/fiostv.aspx

 

[namurt]

Hmmm... I'm still having issues.

Another question for you.

Do you see TWO IPs per STB when you login to your Actiontec? I'm seeing the static IPs I assigned and then a second IP each assigned via DHCP from my router. I'm not sure why this is happening. I thought that by going LAN-to-LAN I wouldn't have any double NAT happening.

 

[Razor512]

sometimes the actiontec router will not forget the old devices, instead it will just list the old IP's as inactive

there is no double NAT happening (as you will see it list every other device on the network, even ones connected to the main router.

Also in the actiontec router, make sure that the Port configuration within the advanced settings, shows the ethernet port running at 100 Full-Duplex or higher

and while not 100% needed, you can also go into the system settings and at the bottom, uncheck "Auto Detection Continuous Trying"

 

[azazel1024]

Hmmm... I'm still having issues.

Another question for you.

Do you see TWO IPs per STB when you login to your Actiontec? I'm seeing the static IPs I assigned and then a second IP each assigned via DHCP from my router. I'm not sure why this is happening. I thought that by going LAN-to-LAN I wouldn't have any double NAT happening.

So you have zero issues if you are running the Actiontec directly? Have you verified recently, or was this only originally and you haven't tested since then?

I don't have any issues with any router I've tried and I haven't had my actiontec hooked up in months, either as a bridge or as a router. I have a dedicated Actiontec MoCA Bridge right now (ECB2500) since March and before that I was using the actiontec in bridge mode for about 2 years before with my own router and no VOD issues.

I do not use the remote DVR functionality, so I can't speak to that.

No stuttering or other issues.

I'd wonder/suspect it is an issue with the STBs you are using possibly, maybe possibly with Verizon's VOD service and the STB, but maybe the STBs themselves.

Wifi should not be able to interfere with MoCA, the frequencies are pretty far off (MoCA is in the 900-1000MHz range, generally and Wifi is of course in the 2.4-2.5GHz and 5.2-5.9GHz range).

I suppose it is always possible that, yes, the Wifi router is causing some kind of EMI with the actiontec, but that seems pretty unlikely. I also wouldn't think a port forwarding issue, as that should be a "works or doesn't work" thing.

There could be some kind of odd QoS thing going on with the router. Can you play with what firewall features are turned on and try disabling as much as possible and see if it still continues to be an issue, then try turning each feature back on to see if suddenly it stops working? I don't know how much VOD gets buffered, but if there is little to no buffering, the router could be causing some kind of odd jitter issues, resulting in the problems you are noticing (this could be because of QoS or it could be due to some kind of firewall stateful inspection or something else slowing down the passage of some of the packets across the firewall).

 

[namurt]

@razor

I do see 100 full-duplex, but you mentioned "or higher" and I'm curious about that. As I understand it, the Rev F has a gigabit switch, but I'm assuming the STBs themselves are only 100Mbit capable?

I'll have to check that "continuous detection" setting when I get home from work.


@azazel

You bring up a very interesting and important point. It's been quite some time since I've tested with just the Actiontec directly. FiOS has been pushing their new quantum speeds (and also the recent symmetrical speed bumps). As far as I know, my area (VHO8) is mostly BPON and so I wonder if there's too much saturation of the node in my local area?

As far as QOS, I disabled all QOS on the R7000 and only have QOS running on the Actiontec. I'm using the default QOS settings on the Actiontec. If I touch any of the QOS settings (or disable QOS) on the Actiontec, the problem gets 10 times worse.

I have the firewall on the Actiontec turned down as minimally as I can. (I don't see an option to disable it entirely.) Firewall on the R7000 is at defaults.

I guess I'll just have to keep playing around. When I next have some free time (a rarity these days, hah!) I'll try out your suggestion of playing around setting by setting to try to isolate the problem. I suppose I should really try a direct connection to the Actiontec again, but ugh... what a pain. My wife is the only one who watches VOD these days. I'm strictly Hulu/Netflix and that's working just fine. I definitely have to rule out that it's an issue beyond my control before I plunk down the cash for the ECB2500.

I'll update the thread as I do more troubleshooting.

Thanks guys!

 

[Razor512]

The STB's generally connect via coax to the actontec router at around 230-250mbit/s, though an actual stream will be at 30mbit/s or less.

I wanted to also include my current settings under the home network section

http://i.imgur.com/Y0KDz3O.jpg

had both STB's stream 1080p ondemand content with no lag or any noticeable performance issues.

STB1 is the DVR which is a Motorola QIP7216

STB2 is a QIP7100-P2

My actiontec junk router only has a 100mbit switch so it connects to the R7000 at 100mbit.

 

[namurt]

I checked my coax LAN stats and my STBs are at 251.43Mbps and 247.28Mbps, respectively. I wonder if the Motorolas are simply better boxes... but I doubt I'll ever find out. Every time I've ever tried to get my boxes swapped, the tech that comes out tells me they only carry the Cisco boxes on the truck in my VHO.

I compared my settings to your screenshot, everything is the same except for under the "Bridge" section where it breaks each connection down into five columns (Name, VLANs, Status, STP, Action), for "Coax" I don't even have a checkbox visible under STP, let alone have it checked. Checkboxes are visible for all other connections, and the one for "Ethernet" is checked like in your screenshot. The Rev F user manual refers to this as:

Click in the device’s “STP” check box to enable Spanning Tree Protocol on the device. This protocol provides path redundancy while preventing undesirable loops in the network.

Not sure how I would go about enabling it, but it's something I'll look into further.

I disabled WAN detection entirely (in reference to that "continuous" setting you mentioned), so we'll see if that helps as well.

 

[Razor512]

The Motorola boxes are older, with slower CPU's , but the video performance is pretty smooth. I looked up the Cisco boxes and other than some early firmware issues, they should perform better.

 

[azazel1024]

Sorry to hear that you have BPON in your service area. I am fortunate enough to have GPON, that said of course, I only have a 75/75 package, so even BPON can handle that. Though GPON would reduce the likelihood of any service area congestion issues (potentially) as well as in the future make it easier for Verizon to up speeds (both to subscribers and on the fiber).

 

[namurt]

So here's a rather interesting turn of events.

I flashed dd-wrt on both the router and ap (kong's 24345 oldd) and now I'm completely good to go. Previously I was running stock firmware (latest build) on both r7000's.

I didn't touch anything on my Actiontec.

Watched two half hour shows and a one hour show on demand in HD without a single glitch.