choose a new router

[huotg01]

Lol, stop putting people spend lots of money for things they'll never use. Don't recommend the top of the line just for the cool factor. I've spent the entire week on reviews and trying to figure out wich I would need for my upgrade. I am mostly certain that will be the AC66U, wich as I see is the sucessor of the N66U.

- If you will hook up a hdd to the router for media streaming and share files then yes, the dual core processor + the usb 3.0 can come in hand. Or if you use VPN, Aicloud, the download manager and the other featureas at the same time. This puts alot of stress on the cpu and ram.
- If you only use it for the routing thing and wifi then I really don't see why you would spend that much money.
- Beamforming is quite useless if it's not end-to-end or marginal at best.
- MU-MIMO requires end-to-end compatibility too for best results.
- The 2400 wifi or whatever won't be achieved by even the most high end hardware of today as there is no 4x4 configuration. You would normally get a 2x2 antenna or 3x3 at best in your laptop or pc.
- Asus uses kind of the same power antennas (more or less) so I don't really know how one unit provides better range than the other. I tend to believe it doesn't.
- Future proof does not exist. As I see there are a bunch of other modifications and amendments that the ac will suffer.

My N66U handles 14 devices everyday with all their needs. It's a 600Mhz processor!!! I've never had any problems connecting with my nas, streaming, and all other stuff, so I think AC66U will do the same or better. But hey everyone know what their budget is and what their needs are.

Beware of the marketing, don't believe everything, they'll try to make you spend the largest amount of money you can !

Stop presenting the RT-AC68U as the top of the line (the 87 is, at maybe 100 more$ than the 68u), and most people who answered Jheroen's questions recommend the 68u (and could have recommended the 56U for a smaller home).

Jheroen has a N66u, and wants to upgrade to something else, and he wants his money well spent. You also have a N66u, and none of the models discussed here.

 

[enr00ted]

I never presented the AC68 as the top of the line, stop putting words in my "mouth". But someone recommended the top of the line withouth too much of a substance. I never said I own them, I was just expressing my opinion and conclusions after extensive research. Is it against the rules to not agree with the majority ?

The decision is up to the OP don't you think ?

 

[huotg01]

[...] I was just expressing my opinion and conclusions after extensive research. Is it against the rules to not agree with the majority ?

Sure not

 

[hggomes]

RT-AC68P (not RT-AC68U) is the best option, no doubts about it, same price as RT-AC68U and better hardware.

You should get rid of MIPS routers when you buy a new router, RT-N18U (single core CPU) it costs 60€ and it's alot better than N66U or AC66U in terms of CPU power, but it lacks the 5GHZ band.

If you don't want to expend too much buy RT-N18U (2.4GHZ only) or even RT-AC56U (Dual Core and 2.4 & 5GHZ) it costs 80€, the unique "problem" on these last one is less coverage and internal antenas.

Now you decide based the money you want to expend.

 

[enr00ted]

the unique "problem" on these last one is less coverage and internal antenas.

Is this a proven fact of the internal vs external ? I've read alot of mixed reviews and I really don't know what to believe anymore. At the same time I'll apologize huotg01 because I did not know the RT-AC56U had similiar features and power as the AC68, less for sure, but also newer platform than the AC66.

So for me, the first choice as of now is AC56U untill someone proves me that the internal antennas are that bad. If they do then there is no other alternative than what everyone has recommended, the AC68U wich I'm not sure I'll spend my money on. Too expensive for my budget.

 

[hggomes]

With the exact same settings there's a 8-10dbm difference between AC56U and the other models, internal antenas or diferent PA design could be the cause.

RT-AC56U is a perfect clone of RT-AC68U, the only difference is the 3x internal antenas vs 3x external antenas, all the other specs are the same. Does that justify's RT-AC68U double price?!?! Definitely NOT!!!!

 

[Jheroen]

And difference between the 66u and the 68u?
I did read both tests, what is the real better point to go to the 68u from my 66u?

You see I do not know it yet...

Is the ac86u a real upgrade or not
Sorry guys

 

[Jheroen]

RT-AC68P (not RT-AC68U) is the best option, no doubts about it, same price as RT-AC68U and better hardware.

You should get rid of MIPS routers when you buy a new router, RT-N18U (single core CPU) it costs 60€ and it's alot better than N66U or AC66U in terms of CPU power, but it lacks the 5GHZ band.

If you don't want to expend too much buy RT-N18U (2.4GHZ only) or even RT-AC56U (Dual Core and 2.4 & 5GHZ) it costs 80€, the unique "problem" on these last one is less coverage and internal antenas.

Now you decide based the money you want to expend.

the 68p is also usable in the EU?
i live in the netherlands and this router is only available on best buy...

 

[jegesq]

the 68p is also usable in the EU?
i live in the netherlands and this router is only available on best buy...

The 68P is a very slight improvement over the 68U/68R (both of which are identical). The P version has a slightly faster CPU using 1 GHz Broadcom BCM4709 instead of the 800 MHz Broadcom BCM4708 used in the R and U versions. The faster processor will help with slightly faster routing (it will likely be imperceptible to you), and if you're using the device for more than just routing and wifi traffic, for things such as hanging a USB drive to access the DLNA or SAMBA server, running an FTP, or a VPN, etc., i.e. any of the more complex tasks that the device is capable of doing, then obviously, the faster processor makes things just that much faster and easier.

The AC66U/R uses the Broadcom BCM4706 running @600 MHz, so it's got a slightly slower processor than the 68U/R and the 68P. [Edit: Merlin and Hggomes insist below that the word "slightly" should not be used here, since the AC66U CPU is a single core MIPs, whereas the 68U/R/P all use dual core ARMs that are faster by at least 33% than the the 68's chip when using OpenSSL benchmarks....so in fairness to their points of view, let's just say the 66U has a "slower" processor than the 68U/R and the 68P for things like VPN, encryption keys, and file transfers via USB].

From a pure theoretical speed perspective, if you're looking at just 802.11ac on 5ghz, all of them are capable of reaching the same exact theoretical maximum speeds of 1300 Mbits/p/s. It's only on the 2.4ghz side that the 68U has the slight speed advantage, being capable of 600 (vs. the 66U/R's 450) M/bits/p/s.

All of these routers (66 and 68) have 256MB of Ram, and 128 of Flash (NV) RAM. So in the memory department they are identical. They utilize memory in slightly different ways, because the 66's are MIPs-based, whereas the 68's are ARM-based, and are, as noted above, faster when doing things like VPN and file sharing with a drive hung off the back of the router.

So from a pure wireless speed perspective, they are both about the same, and the range is the substantially the same as well.

There are some advantages to the 68U/R over the 66U/R:
1) If you're going to run the additional services and take advantage of some of the other features (VPN for one) that Asus routers can use, then the 68's definitely makes more sense;
2. If you are going to stream a lot of content that requires transcoding, or have many different client devices that will be in actual use (not just connected, but in actual use) at the same time, then the faster processors should provide a better overall experience.

On the other hand, if you won't be streaming blu-rays at the same time your kids are using their X-Box and PS4, at the same time your spouse is transferring large data files over a VPN, and you'll just be streaming one movie at a time, or browsing the web, or doing light file transfers from various computers on your own network, then the AC66U will serve you well and is still a great choice.

If you want a graphical chart, comparing all of the Asus routers ever made, check out this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asus_routers (the AC routers are near the bottom of the page).

I have no idea whether you can purchase the 68P in the Netherlands. If it is sold there, it will be set for the EU region only, and thus on the 5ghz band, the only channels that will be available for use will be 36-40-44-48 (the same with all Asus routers sold anywhere in the EU).

 

[Jheroen]

@jegesq

in the netherlands you can't buy the P version only the U version.

in the future we want to use a external drive to connect on the router for filesharing and backups etc.
the rtn66u we do have now has a usb2 port

i do not have any a/c clients yet but can sell the rt n 66 u now; is the ac68u the best option (with merlin's FW)?

 

[BreakingDad]

Yup, my N66U has an xbox1, a 360, ps3, a wii u, 5 pc's, a nas, a usb backup drive, a printer, 3 mobiles, 2 tvs, 3 tablets and a partridge in a pear tree running off it all perfectly on asus stock latest (sorry merlin).

I think a lot of people get over powered tech.

 

[huotg01]

@Jheroen If you don't have any problem with the n66u and it responds to your need, why would you change ? IF you want to change your router, many opinions expressed here goes for the ac68u (or the ac56u). Most have been said.

I have the impression here we all go round in circles, no ?

 

[Jheroen]

you're right, it's okay now.

it will be the AC68U

 

[hggomes]

The AC66U/R uses the Broadcom BCM4706 running @600 MHz, so it's got a slightly slower processor than the 68U/R and the 68P.

Wrong, BCM4708/9 ARM (AC68U/P) it's not only slightly faster, its ALOT faster than BCM4706 MIPS (N66U/AC66U) specially on tasks using encrytion like OpenVPN, USB transfers, etc.

Clock to clock speeds on ARM arch vs MIPS arch is faster.

You should have performed some benchmarks and see the results fist:

RT-N66U
======

(STOCK SPEED 600MHZ)

admin@RT-N66U-C6C0:/tmp/home/root# openssl speed aes-128-cbc
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 16 size blocks: 1866142 aes-128 cbc's in 2.99s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 64 size blocks: 502781 aes-128 cbc's in 3.01s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 256 size blocks: 127832 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 1024 size blocks: 32130 aes-128 cbc's in 2.99s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 8192 size blocks: 4015 aes-128 cbc's in 2.99s
OpenSSL 1.0.1k 8 Jan 2015
built on: Wed Jan 14 03:04:32 2015
options:bn(64,32) rc4(ptr,char) des(idx,cisc,2,long) aes(partial) idea(int) blowfish(ptr)
compiler: mipsel-uclibc-gcc -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DOPENSSL_THREADS -D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -DL_ENDIAN -DTERMIO -O3 -DLINUX26 -DCONFIG_BCMWL5 -DDEBUG_NOISY -DDEBUG_RCTEST -pipe -DBCMWPA2 -funit-at-a-time -Wno-pointer-sign -mtune=mips32r2 -mips32r2 -DRTCONFIG_NVRAM_64K -DLINUX_KERNEL_VERSION=132630 -DOPENSSL_SMALL_FOOTPRINT -fomit-frame-pointer -Wall -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM -DAES_ASM
The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed.
type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes
aes-128 cbc 9986.04k 10690.36k 10908.33k 11003.72k 11000.29k


(OVERCLOCKED TO 660MHZ) => YOU CANT OVERCLOCK IT MORE THAN THAT.

admin@RT-N66U-C6C0:/tmp/home/root# openssl speed aes-128-cbc
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 16 size blocks: 2084745 aes-128 cbc's in 3.02s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 64 size blocks: 558802 aes-128 cbc's in 3.02s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 256 size blocks: 141141 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 1024 size blocks: 35919 aes-128 cbc's in 3.02s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 8192 size blocks: 4488 aes-128 cbc's in 3.02s
OpenSSL 1.0.1k 8 Jan 2015
built on: Wed Jan 14 03:04:32 2015
options:bn(64,32) rc4(ptr,char) des(idx,cisc,2,long) aes(partial) idea(int) blowfish(ptr)
compiler: mipsel-uclibc-gcc -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DOPENSSL_THREADS -D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -DL_ENDIAN -DTERMIO -O3 -DLINUX26 -DCONFIG_BCMWL5 -DDEBUG_NOISY -DDEBUG_RCTEST -pipe -DBCMWPA2 -funit-at-a-time -Wno-pointer-sign -mtune=mips32r2 -mips32r2 -DRTCONFIG_NVRAM_64K -DLINUX_KERNEL_VERSION=132630 -DOPENSSL_SMALL_FOOTPRINT -fomit-frame-pointer -Wall -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM -DAES_ASM
The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed.
type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes
aes-128 cbc 11045.01k 11842.16k 12044.03k 12179.16k 12174.07k


RT-AC68U
========

(STOCK SPEED 800MHZ)

admin@RT-AC68U-F3B0:/tmp/home/root# openssl speed aes-128-cbc
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 16 size blocks: 4730852 aes-128 cbc's in 2.94s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 64 size blocks: 1308811 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 256 size blocks: 340155 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 1024 size blocks: 85905 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 8192 size blocks: 10783 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s
OpenSSL 1.0.1k 8 Jan 2015
built on: Wed Jan 14 05:00:52 2015
options:bn(64,32) rc4(ptr,char) des(idx,cisc,16,long) aes(partial) idea(int) blowfish(ptr)
compiler: arm-brcm-linux-uclibcgnueabi-gcc -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DOPENSSL_THREADS -D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -DTERMIO -O3 -Wall -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_MONT -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_GF2m -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM -DSHA512_ASM -DAES_ASM -DGHASH_ASM
The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed.
type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes
aes-128 cbc 25746.13k 27921.30k 29026.56k 29322.24k 29444.78k


(OVERCLOCKED TO 1.2GHZ) => YOU CAN OVERCLOCK IT MORE THAN THAT.

admin@RT-AC68U-F3B0:# openssl speed aes-128-cbc
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 16 size blocks: 8324959 aes-128 cbc's in 2.98s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 64 size blocks: 2281026 aes-128 cbc's in 2.98s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 256 size blocks: 586216 aes-128 cbc's in 2.97s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 1024 size blocks: 146351 aes-128 cbc's in 2.92s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 8192 size blocks: 18532 aes-128 cbc's in 2.94s
OpenSSL 1.0.1k 8 Jan 2015
built on: Wed Jan 14 05:00:52 2015
options:bn(64,32) rc4(ptr,char) des(idx,cisc,16,long) aes(partial) idea(int) blowfish(ptr)
compiler: -I. -I.. -I../include -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DOPENSSL_THREADS -D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -DTERMIO -O3 -Wall -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_MONT -DOPENSSL_BN_ASM_GF2m -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM -DSHA512_ASM -DAES_ASM -DGHASH_ASM
The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed.
type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes
aes-128 cbc 44697.77k 48988.48k 50529.06k 51323.09k 51637.46k

 

[Jheroen]

Okay, that means the ac68u is a good router to upgrade to.

 

[System Error Message]

i have my ac68u overclocked to 1.4Ghz. However theres nothing that stops you from buying an even better router. I use a mikrotik CCR1036 as my main router and an ASUS AC68U as my AP. For home use the CCR1036 is way overkill but theres nothing that stopped me from getting one. 28Gb/s of NAT with multi Gb/s of VPN while being 16x cheaper than the equivalent peplink while using 5x less power.

Theres nothing wrong with going for the high end if it is within your budget and fits your needs besides you can future proof things too.

Some routerboards have multiple miniPCIe slots so you could make a 6 stream or 8 stream AC wifi for much cheaper than the AC87U. Also not all architectures are equal. The dual core ARM broadcom routers use the ARM CORTEX-A9 which are a balance between power saving and performance. Your new dual core/quad core smartphones are much faster. Some MIPS CPUs are faster than the CORTEX-A9, it mainly depends on which variant you get. Ubiquiti edgerouter uses dualcore MIPS and they are faster than a 1.4Ghz broadcom dualcore ARM for NAT. Its never really a simple comparison. When i first saw ARM based routers i was shocked but than disappointed to learn that they used the A9 instead of the A15 which looked like a much better choice. new smartphones have the A15 or a custom variant similar to it.

 

[hggomes]

Please provide a openssl benchmark of a faster MIPS processor router, in these case on your statement Ubiquiti Edgerouter (Dual-Core 1 GHz, MIPS64 with Hardware Acceleration for Packet Processing).

 

[jegesq]

Wrong, BCM4708/9 ARM (AC68U/P) it's not only slightly faster, its ALOT faster than BCM4706 MIPS (N66U/AC66U) specially on tasks using encrytion like OpenVPN, USB transfers, etc.

Clock to clock speeds on ARM arch vs MIPS arch is faster.

You should have performed some benchmarks and see the results fist:

RT-N66U
======

(STOCK SPEED 600MHZ)

admin@RT-N66U-C6C0:/tmp/home/root# openssl speed aes-128-cbc
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 16 size blocks: 1866142 aes-128 cbc's in 2.99s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 64 size blocks: 502781 aes-128 cbc's in 3.01s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 256 size blocks: 127832 aes-128 cbc's in 3.00s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 1024 size blocks: 32130 aes-128 cbc's in 2.99s
Doing aes-128 cbc for 3s on 8192 size blocks: 4015 aes-128 cbc's in 2.99s
OpenSSL 1.0.1k 8 Jan 2015
built on: Wed Jan 14 03:04:32 2015
options:bn(64,32) rc4(ptr,char) des(idx,cisc,2,long) aes(partial) idea(int) blowfish(ptr)
compiler: mipsel-uclibc-gcc -fPIC -DOPENSSL_PIC -DOPENSSL_THREADS -D_REENTRANT -DDSO_DLFCN -DHAVE_DLFCN_H -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections -DL_ENDIAN -DTERMIO -O3 -DLINUX26 -DCONFIG_BCMWL5 -DDEBUG_NOISY -DDEBUG_RCTEST -pipe -DBCMWPA2 -funit-at-a-time -Wno-pointer-sign -mtune=mips32r2 -mips32r2 -DRTCONFIG_NVRAM_64K -DLINUX_KERNEL_VERSION=132630 -DOPENSSL_SMALL_FOOTPRINT -fomit-frame-pointer -Wall -DSHA1_ASM -DSHA256_ASM -DAES_ASM
The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed.
type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes
aes-128 cbc 9986.04k 10690.36k 10908.33k 11003.72k 11000.29k

blah blah blah blah blah, bublah.....

Honestly, I don't know what your problem is, but I bet it's hard to pronounce.

All that to demonstrate that a chip running stock at 800MHZ is a few microseconds quicker than a chip running at 600MHZ?

Yeah, like I said, the 68U is slightly faster than the 66U....in the real world.

 

[RMerlin]

Honestly, I don't know what your problem is, but I bet it's hard to pronounce.

All that to demonstrate that a chip running stock at 800MHZ is a few microseconds quicker than a chip running at 600MHZ?

Yeah, like I said, the 68U is slightly faster than the 66U....in the real world.

It would have helped if hggomes had formatted his post, to make the numbers more readable. Here are the important parts, formatted for readability:

600 Mhz MIPS CPU:

The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed.
type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes
aes-128 cbc 11045.01k 11842.16k 12044.03k 12179.16k 12174.07k

800 MHz ARM CPU:

The 'numbers' are in 1000s of bytes per second processed.
type 16 bytes 64 bytes 256 bytes 1024 bytes 8192 bytes
aes-128 cbc 25746.13k 27921.30k 29026.56k 29322.24k 29444.78k

That means that for aes-128 crypto calculation, the 800 MHz ARM CPU can compute more than twice as many keys per seconds, for only a 200 MHz difference. The Cortex A9 of the BCM4708/4709 is simply that much more efficient than the old MIPS architecture used in these older routers.

In real-world usage, my own benchmarks translated that into an OpenVPN throughput that was over 2.5x faster with an RT-AC68U versus an RT-N66 - about 20 Mbps versus over 50 Mbps.

 

[jegesq]

It would have helped if hggomes had formatted his post, to make the numbers more readable.

* * *

That means that for aes-128 crypto calculation, the 800 MHz ARM CPU can compute more than twice as many keys per seconds....

Yes, it's certainly more helpful when translated into English. Thank you for that. Sorry but I don't speak Portuguese....

And on the speed issue, I can see that clearly I was in error when I said "slightly faster". I now see that I understated the differences between the two when doing tasks such as OpenVPN, i.e., the benchmarking you've run.

Since I have no inclination to want to run such benchmarks when you've already obviously run them, can I ask you to share whether you see this same throughput of more than two times faster on the ARM chip than the MIPS when doing file transfers from computer to computer wirelessly and wired over one's own intranet, i.e., LAN device to LAN device? And would it also be true of the AC66U vs. the AC68U when performing tasks such as streaming HD video or Blu-ray over one's network? Would it still be more than twice as fast doing those tasks? (and I mention the AC66U even though I realize the architecture of the AC66 is supposed to be based on or perhaps identical to the N66U, because it does have the faster 802.11ac capability, which may not have any impact on the benchmarks you just cited above). And are they twice as fast at performing routing functions as well with simple DNS?

Your further input and information on this is always appreciated.