CISCO Brand Routers

[louwaydon]

Hi, all! I'd just like to get your opinions about Cisco routers. How many of you are using Cisco in your company? We are having an upgrade soon but unfortunately, our budget may not be able to fit a brand new unit if we will opt for Cisco. The reason is, we will be hiring a company to analyze our cloud storage and they will be coming up with a cloud security solution. We have taken some of our budget from other stuff (including our budget for router) to be able to accommodate this special project for the on-going cloud issues. Now, one of our IT staff suggested to go for a refurbished unit instead of getting a brand new one. He was saying that Cisco is a trusted brand and even used or refurbished ones are still reliable. That's why I'd like to hear some of your opinions / insights. Some of you might be using Cisco too...may you please share your experience? And btw, we don't have a supplier yet but I just came across this site: https://www.curvature.com/Cisco/Routers when I was looking for some reviews about refurbished routers. I have this feeling that my boss might consider the suggestion of our IT staff if I let him see the site I mentioned and other similar companies. Anyway, I will stay wait for your inputs and I will include them all include in our agenda. Thank you.

 

[System Error Message]

while i dont use cisco i do use non consumer routers and used or refurbished is good if you are on a budget but you may not get the support from cisco. However there are other brands as well that are on par with cisco and cisco does have a few models that are horrible such as the cisco RV series.

There are also other brands such as juniper or if you dont need the support than theres x86 based solutions or if you want embedded theres quite a range out there.

Buying used or refurbished electronics is totally fine except for storage drives.

It really depends on what you want from a router and if you need the support.

 

[sfx2000]

We're a cisco shop at work these days - decent enough gear, but nothing that any other vendor can't do...

When looking at Refurb/Recertified gear, most of it is good, but make sure it's not past end-of-life/end-of-support - and while saving some cash on the HW, there's still the whole licensing and support angle to be concerned about...

check with your current Router vendor, they may have means/methods with the gear already in place.

 

[Cloud200]

Generally speaking we only put refurb/used units in customer locations if;
The cost of the hardware is half or less than half of what the unit would be new.
OR
The unit would still be under warranty even through transfer of ownership (as in the case of lifetime warranties for some switches).

In addition we only use units that are within 1 generation of current as well as still in distribution. For example, the Cisco 2811 is only 1 generation off of the current 2911 but is now EOL and passed the EOS date. Thus that model would not be considered by us for customer use.

 

[louwaydon]

There are also other brands such as juniper or if you dont need the support than theres x86 based solutions or if you want embedded theres quite a range out there.

Buying used or refurbished electronics is totally fine except for storage drives.

It really depends on what you want from a router and if you need the support.

Ahh yes, I remember Juniper. That's the what my previous company was using when I was still there and yes, it's one of the best brands aside from Cisco.

 

[stevech]

You can buy better than Cisco but you can't pay more.

 

[coxhaus]

With Cisco PRO gear you really need TAC support so you get OS upgrades. There are no free updates. I would not want to buy a router without being able to get OS software updates for problems or security holes which develop. If you buy used CISCO gear, it needs to be certified for TAC support so you can buy TAC support. At least that is the way it was a few years ago so check with CISCO. Oh, there are different levels of TAC support so figure out what you need.

I agree with above do not buy gear which is EOL or end of support for production purposes.

The nice thing about Cisco gear is it does work. It is not like consumer gear where there are lots of software limitations and bugs which cause reboots. Most consumer gear is built for one class C network. Any thing beyond that and the units get iffy.

 

[System Error Message]

Some consumer routers can be as good as cisco with 3rd party firmware but the main point is cisco isnt really the best as they have some models that have limitations and really bad firmwares. Every brand has their good and bad products and there are a number of solutions you can use so dont just restrict yourself to cisco only.
Some x86 based solutions with license do have support including some UTMs.
There are lots of options out there you can choose from that would work well but if you need support it is more difficult to get used/refurbished. Other companies do have good support except for mikrotik which doesnt have any.

Pick out a few models and post them here so the rest of us can advise you on how well it works for your network (you do have to mention your requirements too).

 

[sfx2000]

Some consumer routers can be as good as cisco with 3rd party firmware but the main point is cisco isnt really the best as they have some models that have limitations and really bad firmwares. Every brand has their good and bad products and there are a number of solutions you can use so dont just restrict yourself to cisco only.

I always appreciate the work and contributions of the 3rd Party SW community, but running third party SW on a consumer grade Router/AP isn't in the best interests of a small/medium enterprise (OP has an IT Staff...) - the SW features are present, but the HW doesn't scale like purpose built HW in that market sector.

Cisco - the big thing is the vendor lock in that they try very hard to keep customers in their ecosystem - recurring revenue for TAC/Support/Licenses is how they really make their money - Don't get me wrong, they're pretty good at what they do, but consider the long term costs/benefits when going down that path.

There are a lot of great vendors in the SME space, and one can get a very capable router with support that scales for under $2K easily...

 

[coxhaus]

You need to figure out how much money per minute it will cost if the router goes down and work that into the equation. Look at the salaries of all the people which have to stop work and any sales that may be impacted. You also want somebody to call if a new firmware bugs surfaces and you need a fix. When you take everything into account I am sure you will not want to run a consumer level router.

The router is your most vulnerable network device since it is exposed to the internet. Here is a perfect case for using a layer 3 switch to run the core network instead of the router. You would hate for your whole network to be down because your router got hacked. Use a layer 3 switch to run your network.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

10 and 15 years ago we did lots of Cisco hardware for our medium to larger business clients. The PIX firewalls were common, then later some of the ASA models. We also used their Catalyst switches a lot for larger clients back then.

Also did quite a few Juniper units...I actually liked them better.

But these days...too many other "very good" firewall products at much more affordable prices, and better support. And we're all HP Procurve for switches now.

For firewalls we definitely stick to business grade hardware....we leave residential grade routers (even with 3rd party firmware) to the pizza techs.

 

[Lee Sharp]

Cisco makes good stuff, but they charge heavily for it. And Cisco support for customers with only a few devices can be quite bad. Also, they drive you to the channel partners, and some of then could not find a clue if it hit them in the head! I have replaced a lot of Cisco routers with m0nwall, SmallWall and pfSense over the years, and the customers have never been happier.

But if you have to get Cisco, these guys are pretty good. https://www.vology.com/ Mostly refurbished, but well supported.

 

[coxhaus]

I hope you are not using monwall any more as I read a while back there will not be any more support.

 

[Lee Sharp]

There are two continuations of m0n0wall that are not as heavy as pfSense or OPNsense. www.smallwall.org is one of them.