Cisco WAP571 all choose the same channels

[jasonreg]

My wife's laptop has an issue connecting in her office the WIFI printer seems to lose its connection pretty often. I also have a couple of 2.4GHz devices on a different VLAN which seem to drop every now and then and cannot reconnect until I reset my Router. The 2.4GHz devices are on Ch 6, as are both of my neighbors and the other two APs, and the office devices are on Ch 36 as are the other two APs and at least three other fairly close transmitters. So, I am hoping that a. I can figure out how to change the radio channels for the cluster, and/or b. maybe replace. It could well be I need to add another AP in her office but I do not want to add another WAP571 so I may just move to something else.

 

[jasonreg]

Or I am just scratching an itch ......happens about this time of the year ........

As an aside, I changed the channel on the radio tab and am now unable to reconnect through the SPS IP address or the address I assigned the AP individually......ugh.

 

[coxhaus]

I don't use auto channel assignments on my Cisco APs. I have tried it multiple times on 3 different sets of Cisco APs and it never worked for me. I set the channel assignments manually after scanning from the location of each AP. This has worked best for me. I set the channels on separate channels so they can transmit at the same time. If I had to repeat then I would repeat the end on the other end to keep them apart on the same channel.
Last time I looked I had 23 wireless networks in range. I have no free airtime on any channels.

If you change channels, you should be able to reconnect on the new channel. Being at home I can change channels at will to test what setup I like best.

I have noticed with Win 11 and the last security update last month has affected my wireless. I sometimes now have trouble changing wireless networks, so I have unchecked connect automatically in Win 11 to watch what happens. I can now change wireless networks better. This is a pain as when you boot up you have to select your wireless network every time.

PS
I would not change wireless right now as there are going to be changes from Microsoft coming down the pipe with WI-Fi 7 unless you have hardware failure.

 

[jasonreg]

OK - good info thx. Are you able to share or point me to an article about the coming changes?

 

[coxhaus]

I assume there are going to be changes for Wi-Fi 7 and backwards compatible doesn't always mean what it says, so no.
What bothers me is that you have to reset your router to get wireless back. What router are you running now?
I would log in to each Cisco wireless AP and set different channels for 2.4GHz use 1,6,11. The 5GHz use lower channels 80 wide for main area and upper channels for out areas. I am thinking the upper areas are on the outsides so they do not overlap. You can reverse it if you need to. Then adjust the power levels if you need to for best roaming. I do not use auto power levels either as it has never worked well for me.

If you have a wireless scanning software then I would adjust my channels based on clearest channels but use primary channels.

I have tried auto channels and power levels on all 3 different set of Cisco single point setups but after a couple months they end up setup not well. I don't know if it is because I have so many wireless networks around me or not. I have never owned the Cisco WAP571 APs only WAP371, WAP581, and CBW150ax.

 

[jasonreg]

Netgate 6100 into an SG350 switch. Routing used to be on the switch but I moved it to the 6100 when I set it up. The WAP571s get POE from the switch. I have Rogers 1.5Gbps down/50Mbps up which actually gives me 1.9Gbps/55Mbps. Rogers provided Router is in Bridge mode and am using the 2.5Gpbs port into one of my 2.5Gbps ports on the 6100 as WAN port. 6100 is connected to SG350X via SFP at 10Gbps but all ports on current switch are 1Gbps. I do have two cables plugged into the main WAP571 in LAG to Eth0 (POE) and ETH1 on WAP. I generally get 250Mbps download speeds on iPhones, which is as expected.

My issue is not that I lose WIFI actually, it is that several devices seem to "fall off" the network where there is good coverage, and my wife's laptop struggles to maintain good download speeds in her office (known area or weaker signal). Only reason to upgrade would be to improve coverage with additional WAPs with perhaps better form factors and to gain access to the 6GHz band to ease the congestion (lots of overly strong WIFI in my area). I also have quite a few wireless clients (about 70 connected at the moment with the bulk on my IoT VLAN. Two other VLANs in place (Guest and Office) plus the management VLAN.

I was able to lock two of the WAPs into 6/36 (the two outliers) and was able to change the channels on the Main WAP to other channels (1 had the least congestion and 100 had no-one on it) but I cannot seem to figure out how to change all three WAPs. I cannot seem to log into the other two WAPs, only the WAP which is driving the Single Point setup. On this WAP (the Main Floor WAP) I can log in two ways, through its assigned IP address and also through the SPS assigned address (both static).

I will see if the situation improves with the Main Floor (central) WAP on different frequencies than the upper east and basement west WAPs both on same frequencies. Seems there is a limitation with the Single Point Setup programming in these WAPs though. Many folks on line seems to only be able to get the SPS on 6/36.

 

[coxhaus]

Ok, so I am not sure about your Cisco WAPs. When I had my four WAP371 APs I had to log into each one to adjust the channel and things. The primary single point setup WAP only could update the other APs. Now with my new Cisco 150ax APs they are all accessed from 1 IP. I can select each AP and change channels or whatever. Maybe the software changed on the old ones. How do you adjust the power levels?

I never reboot my Pfsense router unless I am updating it. I don't see what rebooting does for your wireless clients?

I don't think 6GHz will help you in your weak signal areas. You need to add another one if you are running 100% power levels or move them around to where there are less walls.

 

[sfx2000]

I don't think 6GHz will help you in your weak signal areas. You need to add another one if you are running 100% power levels or move them around to where there are less walls.

Really comes down to WLAN network planning...

Use the layer cake approach, with 2.4GHz as the base for the entire property, and use the upper band for localized access - e.g. where people commonly are...

two WAP571's should easily cover 2500 sq ft when properly planned and located inside the property.

And it's not a bad thing actually to have AP's on the same channel - 20 years ago with 802.11b that might have been a thing, but 11n and later have a lot more tolerance for co-channel interference.

 

[coxhaus]

Really comes down to WLAN network planning...

Use the layer cake approach, with 2.4GHz as the base for the entire property, and use the upper band for localized access - e.g. where people commonly are...

two WAP571's should easily cover 2500 sq ft when properly planned and located inside the property.

And it's not a bad thing actually to have AP's on the same channel - 20 years ago with 802.11b that might have been a thing, but 11n and later have a lot more tolerance for co-channel interference.

I think part of his problem is he is using the same channels and they are too close together.

And 2 WAP571 APs should cover 2500 sq ft if you are ok with 2.4GHz. If you want 5GHz then you need another one and turn down the 2.4GHz power level.

 

[jasonreg]

So the house is about 3000 sq ft on main level and basement level and 2200 sq ft upper level. The three APs are staggered across the home with the main level centralized. Basement level east and upper level west. The devices which drop off the network are typically in the 2.4GHz band. Interestingly, with the main level on a channel other than 36, my wife's laptop connection in her office is now fairly solid and much faster and the 2.4GHz connections have remained intact. Will give this a week or so to see if anything else needs changing.

@coxhaus - not sure it was rebooting pfsense specifically, what I meant was when things were not connecting, I just employed a "Mac-Air" Fix (those who know will know) and just turned everything off, then turned everything on again (this included my OEM Cable modem (bridged), 6100 and both switches). Unsure of which device rebooting actually fixed things but it did.

@sfx2000 - I like the "Layer Cake" analogy. Makes sense to me and I kind of think this is how we have things set up ('ish).

 

[sfx2000]

If I recall, the WAP's can disable 11b legacy support, e.g. they will still broadcast 11n/g - this moves the basic rates up to the OFDM rate of 6MBps and this also disables DSSS support...

Also, ensure that security is set to either WPA2-only or WPA2/3 and make PMF optional

Also, as @coxhaus mentions, the AP's may be too close to each other...

 

[Tech9]

Will give this a week or so to see if anything else needs changing.

You just have to find what works best for you. I run multi-AP systems on the same or different channels depending on the environment. My EU located setup is 4x APs on Ch.36 @80MHz on very low power around 20mW. My NA located setup is also 4x APs, but split 2x2 on Ch.36 and Ch.149 on medium power under 200mW. I also have a business setup with 8x APs on four different channels @40MHz, all under 200mW. There is no universal advice what makes it better. Plan your system, execute, test.

 

[coxhaus]

Yes, turn off 11b. I always have that off.

With that much space you could use more APs for better 5 GHz. 2.4GHz should cover.

Different channels will help a lot. Because with your 3 AP setup you should be able to have at least 2 wireless clients talking at the same time because of the different channels on each frequency. Using the same will allow only 1 client at a time to talk so it is half as slow. This is per frequency 2.4GHz and 5 GHz. Half as slow using same channels.

If you want to play around with power levels for 2.4GHz you could choose channel 1 for one AP, choose channel 6 for one AP and choose channel 11 for one AP. That would allow 3 talkers at the same time on 2.4GHz which would even be faster. you would need to play with power levels so roaming would work. I do this at my house. But then again 5500 sqft with 3 APs maybe not. Test roaming, it will tell. Placement has a lot to do with it also.

I never repeat channels if I don't have to. I always try to use different channels if possible. It allows more active talkers at the same time.

 

[jasonreg]

Interesting - the deeper I dive, the more limitations I find...... So I just checked and my options on the 2.4GHz radio are:

• 802.11 b/g
• 802.11 b/g/n
• 2.4GHz 80211.n

Happy to kill of the 11b but hard for me to tell at this point if there is a downside to killing the 11g as well?

Similarly on the 5GHz band I have the following options:

• 802.11 a
• 802.11 a/n/ac
• 802.11 n/ac

Here I am assuming the 802.11 n/ac is the preferred option?

 

[coxhaus]

Interesting - the deeper I dive, the more limitations I find...... So I just checked and my options on the 2.4GHz radio are:

• 802.11 b/g
• 802.11 b/g/n
• 2.4GHz 80211.n

Happy to kill of the 11b but hard for me to tell at this point if there is a downside to killing the 11g as well?

Similarly on the 5GHz band I have the following options:

• 802.11 a
• 802.11 a/n/ac
• 802.11 n/ac

Here I am assuming the 802.11 n/ac is the preferred option?

Yes, the n/ac probably. I have not noticed any bad issues if I leave "a" running.
I would try for 2.4GHz 80211.n. If you don't notice a problem then I go with it.

 

[jasonreg]

OK - set this up as described. Will post back in a few days to report any issues or if all is good. Thx for everyone's input - much appreciated.