Comcast Hates my MoCA Setup

[Dodge DeBoulet]

Here's a crappy diagram of the layout:

   Service Connection
           |
           |            ------- Cable Modem -- (Ethernet) -- Main Router (NetGear R9000)
      POE Filter       /    (NetGear CM1000v2)                         |
           |          /                                               /
     Distribution Amp  ------- ECB6200 ------ (Ethernet) -------------
   (CommScope CSAPDU9VP)
    /       |       \
   /        |        \
Coax      Coax       Coax
Living    Media      Father-In-Law's
Room      Room       Apartment (250ft underground run)
ECB6200   ECB6200    ECB6200
    |      |   |          |
  TiVo     |  Ethernet   WiFi
  Mini     |  Switch     Access Point/Switch
         Coax      |         |
         TV Out    |     TiVo Mini
           |       |
         TiVo VOX 2TB

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

MoCA performance, as I mentioned, goes beyond the speeds that you're experiencing. However unlikely, the amount of power required to establish and maintain the MoCA connections may be a factor.

Re: the ECB6200's ... have you capped all unused "TV/STB Out" pass-through ports w/ 75-ohm terminators? And the same for any unused ports on the amplifier?

Oops. No, I haven't ... will order some ASAP. The unused legs on the amp are unterminated as well.

It would be interesting to know.

Would this doohickey be more suitable for my MoCA network?

 

[degrub]

yeah you need to terminate any open coax connection points.

Clueless about MoCA, please help.

I've read through countless forums and can't seem to find anyone with my setup. I've read through this forum and maybe I'm just not grasping the concept. To start I have Xfinity for internet and basic cable - we rarely use the basic cable, was just part of the package. My ultimate goal is to...

www.snbforums.com

looks like it would work for the MOCA 2 side of the cable plant. Not sure what comcast needs are.
here are the specs on the existing

https://www.commscope.com/globalassets/digizuite/77454-p360-csmapdu9vpi-comprehensiveexternal.pdf

Looks like what comcast installed should allow the MOCA2 bands to operate as you experience.

If they hook up the spectrum analyzer again, power off all of your equipment ( including the modem) connected to the amp, get a baseline reading of the noise present (since it may be on their side / or from your cables somewhere) - see if that situation has the issues, and then assuming it does not show any issues, power up the ISP devices and then your devices, starting with the modem, one at a time until the noise comes back. if the baseline does show noise issue, unplug your coax one at a time until only the power and input connections are connected. If there is still an issue it is on the comcast equipment.

If it does not come back, then it may be 1) heat related on one of the devices, or 2) spurious electrical noise - appliance, motors, power supply, etc that is radiating enough to be picked up on one of the cables due to a shielding fault or improper termination. Had you bought or installed any electrical powered device at about the same time the issue started ?

 

[krkaufman]

Here's a crappy diagram of the layout:

   Service Connection
           |
           |            ------- Cable Modem -- (Ethernet) -- Main Router (NetGear R9000)
      POE Filter       /    (NetGear CM1000v2)                         |
           |          /                                               /
     Distribution Amp  ------- ECB6200 ------ (Ethernet) -------------
   (CommScope CSAPDU9VP)
    /       |       \
   /        |        \
Coax      Coax       Coax
Living    Media      Father-In-Law's
Room      Room       Apartment (250ft underground run)
ECB6200   ECB6200    ECB6200
    |         |          |
  TiVo     Ethernet     WiFi
  Mini     Switch       Access Point

Is anything other than the cable modem in need of the incoming cable signal? I see a TiVo Mini, but no associated (CableCARD'd) DVR. What about any X1 TV gear? (edit: Answered, on looking more closely: TiVo VOX. Anything else I missed?)

Also, do you know to which amplifier output each of these coax runs is connected? (With main interest being whether the modem is connected to the "VoIP Out" port, and if all the others are grouped to ports 1-4.)

p.s. Impressive diagram. Such textual representations can be a bear to create, so I appreciate the effort.

 

[krkaufman]

looks like it would work for the MOCA 2 side of the cable plant. Not sure what comcast needs are.
here are the specs on the existing
https://www.commscope.com/globalassets/digizuite/77454-p360-csmapdu9vpi-comprehensiveexternal.pdf

Looks like what comcast installed should allow the MOCA2 bands to operate as you experience.

Note that these specs are for the MoCA("M") version of this amp, CSMADPU9VPI, rather than the CSAPDU9VP model stated as owned by the OP ... though I don't know if there's any material (physical, design) difference. (The vendor certainly indicates a difference, especially w/ the VoIP port having access to the MoCA signals passed between the amplifed output ports, and the "M" model having a built-in "PoE" MoCA filter ... per >this video< ... but I don't know whether this amp has an actual different design/manufacture or if they've just updated the marketing.)

... VS ... ​

​

p.s. From the CSMADPU9VPI, video:

​

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

Yes, there's a TiVo Bolt VOX that hangs off the coax TV-Out in the media room and connects to the switch there to feed the Mini's. I've updated the diagram to show it.

There's a cable connected to to the "VoIP Out" port, but it's not currently connected to anything I'm using.

I've ordered the doohickey mentioned previously. I'm going to hoe my own row for my cable plant and just have the Comcast service connection split to the TiVo VOX and cable modem. Everything else in the house and apartment is IP-based, so there's no need for those MoCA adapters to share the road with Comcast.

 

[krkaufman]

Though perhaps unrelated to your noise issue, and not knowing the answer to the "which amp outputs?" question, you might experiment with this cheap passive alternative to using a powered amplifier, isolating your DOCSIS 3.1 modem from the MoCA network (because) ...

​

​

... with the caveat that you could use an Amphenol hybrid splitter (e.g.), in place of the secondary splitter and "PoE" MocA filter, to support the MoCA section of the coax plant, with the DVR coax run connected to the hybrid splitter's low-loss output.​

 

[krkaufman]

There's a cable connected to to the "VoIP Out" port, but it's not currently connected to anything I'm using.

That amp port is another candidate for a 75-ohm terminator. (i.e. remove the cable and cap it)

Yes, there's a TiVo Bolt VOX that hangs off the coax TV-Out in the media room and connects to the switch there to feed the Mini's. I've updated the diagram to show it.

Ah, that explains why I missed it earlier! Thanks.

I'm going to hoe my own row for my cable plant and just have the Comcast service connection split to the TiVo VOX and cable modem. Everything else in the house and apartment is IP-based, so there's no need for those MoCA adapters to share the road with Comcast.

Interesting, and perhaps for the best (per previous).

Do you have 2 coax runs to the Media Room TiVo VOX location? (Which I'd think would be necessary to isolate your Comcast/cable signals from the MoCA network.)

Would this doohickey be more suitable for my MoCA network?

I've ordered the doohickey mentioned previously.

That amp is at least marketed as being MoCA compliant, so you should get improved MoCA connectivity between the outputs. HOWEVER, if you're separating your Comcast-fed devices from your IP-only MoCA-networked coax segments, then you wouldn't need a "designed for MoCA" amplifier. The MoCA segment could be supported just using a passive splitter. Amplifiers only amplify the sub-MoCA cable frequencies; "MoCA amps" are just designed to allow MoCA to flow between output ports more effectively, and to block MoCA signals from reaching the amp circuitry or out the input port.

 

[krkaufman]

Do you have 2 coax runs to the Media Room TiVo VOX location? (Which I'd think would be necessary to isolate your Comcast/cable signals from the MoCA network.)

... if you're separating your Comcast-fed devices from your IP-only MoCA-networked coax segments, then you wouldn't need a "designed for MoCA" amplifier. The MoCA segment could be supported just using a passive splitter.

For example:

​

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

I was thinking that after getting all the terminators installed it might solve the noise issue Comcast is complaining about, in which case the doohickey would simply replace the current distribution amp. And if there's still noise, I'll need some way to tie 4 ECB6200s together. I didn't realize that a simple passive splitter would be sufficient, though.

I only have the one coax run to the media room, but I really don't need to have the TiVo VOX located there. I rarely watch anything on it myself, and my wife and FiL have their own Minis in the living room and his apartment respectively.

I can stick the VOX near the cable modem where the splitter will be, and where I have an easy ethernet connection to deliver its content to the rest of the house. And I can pick up another Mini for the media room if I change my mind about watching recorded stuff.

 

[krkaufman]

And if there's still noise, I'll need some way to tie 4 ECB6200s together. I didn't realize that a simple passive splitter would be sufficient, though.

As mentioned, amplifiers just boost the signals in their targeted frequency range, 5-1002 MHz.

MoCA gear has its own built-in power amplification and reduction capability, boosting or reducing the signal to adjust to the attenuation between nodes. It's because of this built-in power amplification that I was suggesting that getting a read of the MoCA statistics would be beneficial, to determine the health of the MoCA network and whether the amp was an impediment to efficient performance -- even if not an outright roadblock.

So, yeah, a simple passive splitter (ideally spec'd for MoCA, such as one of the Holland GHS-PRO-M series models) would work for distributing the MoCA signals.

 

[krkaufman]

I only have the one coax run to the media room, but I really don't need to have the TiVo VOX located there. ... I can stick the VOX near the cable modem where the splitter will be

Ah, ok. Not ideal, but not a huge loss if you don't watch much live content, anyway.

Hopefully the terminators eliminate the noise, then. Long-shot, but better than none.

 

[Ziptbm]

Note that these specs are for the MoCA("M") version of this amp, CSMADPU9VPI, rather than the CSAPDU9VP model stated as owned by the OP ... though I don't know if there's any material (physical, design) difference. (The vendor certainly indicates a difference, especially w/ the VoIP port having access to the MoCA signals passed between the amplifed output ports, and the "M" model having a built-in "PoE" MoCA filter ... per >this video< ... but I don't know whether this amp has an actual different design/manufacture or if they've just updated the marketing.)

View attachment 27279 ... VS ... View attachment 27281​

​

p.s. From the CSMADPU9VPI, video:

View attachment 27284 View attachment 27285​

@Dodge DeBoulet which amplifier did you end up going with? CSAPDU9VP or the CSMADPU9VPI? I'm assuming the non-MOCA version did not work for you, correct?

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

I had originally ordered this unit, but Amazon managed to lose it in their Stoughton MA distribution facility. When it hadn't shown (or left Stoughton) for 2 days past its scheduled arrival I ordered this unit. It actually arrived on time and I installed it immediately, also making sure everything that was supposed to be terminated was terminated with 75 ohm caps.

I called Comcast and asked them to check my cable plant again and they found none of the high-frequency noise they saw previously. The low-frequency "electrical" noise remained, but I'm neither sure it affects my signal nor causes problems for my neighbors. The area manager that was supposed to contact me 2 weeks ago finally called and committed to have an engineer check to see if any of my noise was leaking out to their infrastructure. So far I haven't heard anything else.

Oh, and the 8 port unit eventually arrived over this last weekend. I'd already gotten my refund. I suppose the right thing to do would be to send it back. Hmmm.

 

[Ziptbm]

I had originally ordered this unit, but Amazon managed to lose it in their Stoughton MA distribution facility. When it hadn't shown (or left Stoughton) for 2 days past its scheduled arrival I ordered this unit. It actually arrived on time and I installed it immediately, also making sure everything that was supposed to be terminated was terminated with 75 ohm caps.

I called Comcast and asked them to check my cable plant again and they found none of the high-frequency noise they saw previously. The low-frequency "electrical" noise remained, but I'm neither sure it affects my signal nor causes problems for my neighbors. The area manager that was supposed to contact me 2 weeks ago finally called and committed to have an engineer check to see if any of my noise was leaking out to their infrastructure. So far I haven't heard anything else.

Oh, and the 8 port unit eventually arrived over this last weekend. I'd already gotten my refund. I suppose the right thing to do would be to send it back. Hmmm.

Fun and a nice bonus! So you had the CommScore unit that did not support MOCA (CSAPDU9VP) and tried it, correct?

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

Fun and a nice bonus! So you had the CommScore unit that did not support MOCA (CSAPDU9VP) and tried it, correct?

The CommScope amp was already installed when we bought the place 3 years ago. It seemed to work with MoCA; I used it for those 3 years with the ECB6200s from ActionTec. The only reason I replaced it was because of Comcast's actions in installing the filter that seemed to interfere with our cable modem's stability.

 

[Dodge DeBoulet]

I'll hopefully be back soon to wrap this up with feedback from Comcast, but I wanted to mention that I was feeling a bit guilty about receiving a US$94.00 PPC-9M-U/U that I hadn't paid for, so I contacted Amazon via chat to ask what they'd like me to do with it.

They told me to keep it