Coming over to "AC" from RT-N66. Looking for suggestions

[razorseal]

Hey everyone,

We bought a new home September and it's a bigger house than what we previously had (single floor 1700 ft apt vs new 2800 sq ft 2 floor home). This brought some issues with wifi that I didn't face before...

Router is upstairs and is a RT-N66. the devices upstairs work pretty well on 2.4 and 5ghz (not too cluttered on either band). However if you go downstairs, the wifi really suffers on both 2.4 and 5ghz. the strength seems to be there, but not the quality of signal. I tried to remedy with with extenders, but it just isn't working...

I just started reading up and noticed that I'm on 802.11n with my RT-N66... It looks like I can really benefit if I get a 802.11ac router (I have few devices that support it such as chromecast 2, S7 galaxy and laptops). However I have some devices that only support "n" (PS4, Nvidia Shield tablet and few other tablets, ring doorbell)

Now my 1st question is, what router? I see RT-AC88U get mentioned alot and seen RT-5300 as well. I'm assuming these are the ones I want to spend the money on... They seem very pricey, but I guess an update to a router every 2-3 years seems reasonable and perhaps worth the money (as much as I don't want to spend the $$) or do I just get the cheaper and older AC68 since I'm not a huge power user and mostly do video streaming or gamestreaming. I'm also looking at Netgear Nighthawk X4S AC2600 as well. Was highly praised in the reviews here.

Second question is, can I use my old RT-N66R as a bridge downstairs to help the upstairs AC unit out? or is that going to create problems because it isn't 'ac'?

How will this "beamforming" concept work? Will it work from upstairs to downstairs? will using RT-N66 as a bridge mess this up?

Lastly, is it worth getting another router of some type to put downstairs as a bridge? Something like a TP-LINK AC1750 range extender?

Thanks!

 

[razorseal]

and for the love of god, what are all these AC classes... 1750, 1900, 3100, 3200, 5300 etc etc etc... I tried understanding them, but I really don't. One would think to pick the highest number, but apparently it's not that simple. Seems like the manufacturers just keeping adding up the speeds and radios to come up with a number. What does this mean to me? I can connect 50 devices to one and 15 to o

 

[TexasFlood]

and for the love of god, what are all these AC classes... 1750, 1900, 3100, 3200, 5300 etc etc etc... I tried understanding them, but I really don't. One would think to pick the highest number, but apparently it's not that simple. Seems like the manufacturers just keeping adding up the speeds and radios to come up with a number. What does this mean to me? I can connect 50 devices to one and 15 to o

As I understand it, that advertised number is all about maximum speed potential. They add up the theoretical max of the 2.4 and 5 GHz bands & round it off.

 

[bbsc]

Just my 2 cents: if you're satisfied with speed but not satisfied by coverage just get one more RT-N66U and use it as access point downstairs.

 

[Klueless]

... the strength seems to be there, but not the quality of signal.

Not sure what that means / what you mean?

I tried to remedy with with extenders, but it just isn't working

I think I'd be interested in knowing a little more about the problem before just throwing money at it.

What's the layout of the two floors? Similar or is the 2nd floor more open and the 1st more walled off? In some ways your new home is smaller, it's only 1,400 sq. ft. (plus the ceiling height) versus 1,700'. (L&LD taught me that : -) Sqrt(1400) + 8/2 vs. sqrt(1700). Go figure, they both come to about 41 : -) We should be able to make this work? (Assuming normal construction.)

Where is the router upstairs? In the back corner of some room? Bring it out some, more center to the overall floor plan and/or closer to a doorway or something.

If you haven't already load a WiFi Analyzer onto your smart phone and walk around. What's really weak? What isn't? Why, what do you think is going on? Are there big differences in the same locations but different floors? (e.g. N/W corner of 2nd floor vs. N/W corner of 1st?)

But the real proof is the data, actual transfer rates. Plug a PC into a Gigabit port and a Laptop into another Gigabit port. Move data.

(Netstress is showing its age but I'm too lazy to try something new. Load Netstress onto the PC and another copy on the laptop. Follow the directions. Use 8 concurrent TCP streams and 8 concurrent UDP streams. You should see around 600Mbps.)

Leave the PC on Gigabit (that's your anchor) and move the laptop around. 2.4Ghz. 5Ghz. Direct connect to an extender. This corner. That corner. Do some things get better when you turn off the extenders? What's the data telling you? Would simply relocating the router help? Opening a door or two? Relocating the extender (correct placement can be tricky)? Re-configuring the extender to be a wired Access Point? Perhaps the incremental range improvement of a new router will do the trick?

Try something, anything and rebench. Do keep in touch.

 

[razorseal]

Not sure what that means / what you mean?


I think I'd be interested in knowing a little more about the problem before just throwing money at it.

What's the layout of the two floors? Similar or is the 2nd floor more open and the 1st more walled off? In some ways your new home is smaller, it's only 1,400 sq. ft. (plus the ceiling height) versus 1,700'. (L&LD taught me that : -) Sqrt(1400) + 8/2 vs. sqrt(1700). Go figure, they both come to about 41 : -) We should be able to make this work? (Assuming normal construction.)

Where is the router upstairs? In the back corner of some room? Bring it out some, more center to the overall floor plan and/or closer to a doorway or something.

If you haven't already load a WiFi Analyzer onto your smart phone and walk around. What's really weak? What isn't? Why, what do you think is going on? Are there big differences in the same locations but different floors? (e.g. N/W corner of 2nd floor vs. N/W corner of 1st?)

But the real proof is the data, actual transfer rates. Plug a PC into a Gigabit port and a Laptop into another Gigabit port. Move data.

(Netstress is showing its age but I'm too lazy to try something new. Load Netstress onto the PC and another copy on the laptop. Follow the directions. Use 8 concurrent TCP streams and 8 concurrent UDP streams. You should see around 600Mbps.)

Leave the PC on Gigabit (that's your anchor) and move the laptop around. 2.4Ghz. 5Ghz. Direct connect to an extender. This corner. That corner. Do some things get better when you turn off the extenders? What's the data telling you? Would simply relocating the router help? Opening a door or two? Relocating the extender (correct placement can be tricky)? Re-configuring the extender to be a wired Access Point? Perhaps the incremental range improvement of a new router will do the trick?

Try something, anything and rebench. Do keep in touch.

Heya... I'll do ya one better. How does this work.

 

[TexasFlood]

Those results look odd to me in a couple of respects. One is the 2.4GHz test upload being like 3 times the download, very unusual in my experience for the download not to be best. The other is the 2.4GHz range/througput being so much worse that the 5GHz. I can get 2.4GHz in parts of my house that get no 5GHz reception at all and same with other installations I've seen. I can't think of an explanation for those things at the moment. I'm not sure I got the layout of your house right but is your router against the wall closest to the other parts of the house you were testing in? Almost looks like the wall to your right in the first section of the video, the wall with the hallway door, might be better. I recently improved the reception in problem areas of my house by running a flat cat6 cable under my office carpet so allow relocating my router to a more central wall. Well, two cables actually, one to the router and one back to a cheap small 1Gb switch for anything I might want to plug in by my desk. As a result my daughter can now get reliable wireless in her room for the first time in memory. Just a thought. I have no idea what obstructions might be in the walls that could influence what location is best for you.

 

[Klueless]

Heya... I'll do ya one better. How does this work

LOL ... hey, you're a lot better at this stuff than me! Nice house, congratulations and double congrats on the new baby! (Hey, you're not running a 2.4Ghz baby monitor ... are you?)

• Loc #1 is by the router. Got it.
• Loc #2 is downstairs, pretty much right under the router. Open staircase, open door.
• Loc #3, living room, downstairs, pretty much opposite side of house from router.

Couple questions.

• SSIDs Xfiniti? Streaming TVs over 2.4Ghz? Since they're on channel 11 we can kinda ignore them for now?
• SSID HHC5G - I think I get.
• SSIDs - HHC - 2.4Ghz. Why am I seeing 2? Is one SSID the router and the other SSID the two (two?) extenders downstairs? I'm hard of hearing. Were you saying the two(?) extenders connect to the router via genuine make-believe Ethernet over the power line? (OK, why two extenders?)

5Ghz ...

• I guess we're happy with 90 x 9.6 Mbps in the router room. (That's pretty close to what you pay for?)
• Downstairs at 60 x 8.5 Mbps might be OK.
• Living room at 23 x 8 Mbps is, well, I'm not surprised. The outright failure was very disappointing. It is on the opposite side of house, can't get much further. Might just be the edge of your 5Ghz range? Guess that's what 2.4 is for. (Too bad that didn't even work!)

2.4Ghz ...

Eh, why bother recapping. Assuming we connected at N - 2.4 just plain didn't work right anywhere. It's almost like we kept connecting to the worst HHC SSID purposefully. I'd be curious what you get for speeds in the router room and downstairs (below the router) with both extenders disconnected?​

 

[TexasFlood]

Hey, you're not running a 2.4Ghz baby monitor ... are you?

Excellent question. I noticed a couple of devices sitting by router. One looks like a phone maybe, can't tell about the other. What are those devices and what frequency do they run on? As you stated, baby monitors, alarm systems, phones, keyboards, mice, headsets, etc, can run on 2.4GHz and interfere with the wireless but not show up on a tool like wifi analyzer. I don't really understand why the 2.4GHz speed test is so slow standing right next to the router, makes no sense. Looking at the test report here, it should be a lot better even if it's set at 20MHz - http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...1750-gigabit-router-reviewed?showall=&start=4

• SSIDs Xfiniti? Streaming TVs over 2.4Ghz? Since they're on channel 11 we can kinda ignore them for now?

I believe this is the public access hotspot comcast runs on their equipment by default under the ssid xfinitywifi. I turned that off on mine since it was causing interference in my setup. But you're right, they can probably be ignored in this scenario since they don't seem to interfere.

• SSIDs - HHC - 2.4Ghz. Why am I seeing 2? Is one SSID the router and the other SSID the two (two?) extenders downstairs? I'm hard of hearing. Were you saying the two(?) extenders connect to the router via genuine make-believe Ethernet over the power line? (OK, why two extenders?)

I think the upstairs unit just injects the wired Ethernet into the power lines, the downstairs one rebroadcasts it, seemingly only on 2.4GHz as I don't see a second 5GHz HHC-5G signal. One thing I didn't notice before was the two 2.4GHz HHC signals are on different channels, one on channel 1, one on channel 6. When I used to run a second AP and wanted to roam seamlessly them, I'd have them set to the same channel. Not sure which is right but it worked for me. Looks like the HP PC is switching between the two anyway as I see it on channel 1 at first then channel 6.

 

[razorseal]

Thanks guys...

There indeed is a baby monitor which I'm sure transmits over 2.4ghz. Here is the camera we use

SSID Xfiniti is the public access that's around my house I guess for our provider. It's not being transmitted from my router though I don't think. I have all those shut off.

HHC 5G is the 5g broadcast I have in the house. There is only one and no extenders for that.

HHC is the 2.4g broadcast. there are actually 2 extenders but one of them is unplugged. That's why you were seeing two. the extender is actually is over the powerlines, so it should be putting out a decent non interfered (from AP to extender) signal. Odd that it doesnt. Here is the extender.

The other 2.4 extender is in the garage but that is not over power line. that was unplugged I believe.


What I meant by "close to what I pay for" is the xfiniti service I have. I pay for a 90mbps service, so I reached that on 5g near the router. anything past that with internet, comcast is capping me. but that shows the good signal. I'm sure local would be much higher.

I have no idea why the HHC (2.4) is barely working even near the router. I've done this test with all extenders removed and still doesn't make a difference. I've factory reset the router and always same result... I don't remember it being this bad in the past on the other house.

So would love some help with troubleshooting here. Maybe I don't quite need a ac router? altough I wouldn't mind increasing the speed downstairs somehow on both 2.4 and 5g (playstation and few other devices downstairs are only 2.4) if I could push a stronger signal to the family room with 5g, that would be great (chromecast, laptops, phones, tablets)

 

[TexasFlood]

SSID Xfiniti is the public access that's around my house I guess for our provider. It's not being transmitted from my router though I don't think. I have all those shut off.

I'd have bet money that the xfinitywifi signals are coming from your comcast device. There's another one coming from "TheMcLaughlins" device. Even if you put a Comcast device in bridge mode disabling wireless service, it will still run a public hotspot unless you either ask Comcast to turn that off or do it yourself, see http://customer.xfinity.com/help-and-support/internet/disable-xfinity-wifi-home-hotspot/

 

[razorseal]

I'll check that when I get home and try to disable it. worst case scenario, I'll cover it in alum foil lol.

So what can I do to improve I have going on now? That's really the only location I can put the router. the desktops are hardwired into the router so...

I'm still baffled why the 2.4ghz is so weak. Maybe get another RT-N66 and put it downstairs?

will a AC3100 or something help in my situation?

I really think a 3x3 or 4x4 radio will help with MU-MIMO with so many devices that are connected in my house. thoughts?

 

[TexasFlood]

Interference is all that makes sense to me. Is the 2.4 channel width set to 20 or 40MHz? Mine's on 20 for better range, although less speed obviously.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[L&LD]

I'll check that when I get home and try to disable it. worst case scenario, I'll cover it in alum foil lol.

So what can I do to improve I have going on now? That's really the only location I can put the router. the desktops are hardwired into the router so...

I'm still baffled why the 2.4ghz is so weak. Maybe get another RT-N66 and put it downstairs?

will a AC3100 or something help in my situation?

I really think a 3x3 or 4x4 radio will help with MU-MIMO with so many devices that are connected in my house. thoughts?

Buying another identical router makes no sense. The RT-AC3100 or higher is what I would test in your environment. Then you can use the 'spare' RT-N66U as an AP if you actually need to.

MU-MIMO won't help if you have no clients that are also MU-MIMO capable.

 

[razorseal]

I'll check that when I get home and try to disable it. worst case scenario, I'll cover it in alum foil lol.

Interference is all that makes sense to me. Is the 2.4 channel width set to 20 or 40MHz? Mine's on 20 for better range, although less speed obviously.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Just don't see what can interfere besides the xfinity thing which I'll make sure to disable if it's from me.

it's on 20/40. I mean even at few feet from router it's horrible. The cordless phone base (the main base) is 1.9ghz (vtech CS6719) so I'm not sure if that could be it. the other thing next to my router is a portable radio charger, but that radio isn't on when charging. The only other thing could be the 2.4 ghz baby monitor which is in another room, and I'm can't disable that lol.

 

[TexasFlood]

Just don't see what can interfere besides the xfinity thing which I'll make sure to disable if it's from me.

it's on 20/40. I mean even at few feet from router it's horrible. The cordless phone base (the main base) is 1.9ghz (vtech CS6719) so I'm not sure if that could be it. the other thing next to my router is a portable radio charger, but that radio isn't on when charging. The only other thing could be the 2.4 ghz baby monitor which is in another room, and I'm can't disable that lol.

What are those devices sitting right by the router? A phone? What else? Nothing on 2.4GHz?

 

[razorseal]

Buying another identical router makes no sense. The RT-AC3100 or higher is what I would test in your environment. Then you can use the 'spare' RT-N66U as an AP if you actually need to.

MU-MIMO won't help if you have no clients that are also MU-MIMO capable.

I'm willing to spend the money if it'll improve performance in the house (range and speed)

I could put the spare N66U downstairs if it helps, but then I assume it will be the bottle neck and I'll lose out on the advantage the AC3100 would give me.

the Galaxy S7 is MU-MIMO so at least the 2 phones that are used can benefit from it. and I'm sure the next laptop we get will have it too along with the new tablets in the future. It's going to be the new standard.

 

[razorseal]

What are those devices sitting right by the router? A phone? What else? Nothing on 2.4GHz?

You quoted the answer to your question lol.

1 is a Vtech CS6719 home phone operating on 1.9ghz. the thing next to that is a portable radio charger which isn't on when being charged. There are no other 2.4 devices.

 

[TexasFlood]

You quoted the answer to your question lol.

1 is a Vtech CS6719 home phone operating on 1.9ghz. the thing next to that is a portable radio charger which isn't on when being charged. There are no other 2.4 devices.

That doesn't sound like a problem. No wireless mice, keyboards, headsets, Bluetooth devices, alarm systems, closeby? All that stuff typically ruins on 2.4GHz frequencies. Microwaves of course interfere but only leaky units when on.

 

[razorseal]

That doesn't sound like a problem. No wireless mice, keyboards, headsets, Bluetooth devices, alarm systems, closeby? All that stuff typically ruins on 2.4GHz frequencies. Microwaves of course interfere but only leaky units when on.

no wireless computer devices in there. The only thing are 2 receivers in the 500-900mhz range for weather station and ADS-B receiver. All keyboards and mice and wired in the room. no bluetooth headsets.

The house does have a z-wave alarm system throughout, but none of the z-wave stuff is in the room (which is 800-900mhz anyways)