conduit or not?

[PolarBear]

Another vote here for plastic conduit. The wider the better.

Metal conduit may require grounding according to your local code. Plastic will not.

You may also want to check if there are code requirements to run "plenum" conduit, which will not give off poisonous fumes in a fire. I suspect that means polythene tubing, rather than PVC, but you may want to check. Where I live they are coloured differently.

The great advantage of putting cables in tubes is that when the next networking technology arrives, you can simply pull the new type of cable (or fibre?) into the tube without reopening the walls. And of course for an additional TV you can pull coax through the tubes instead, if you wish.

The empty conduit costs very little, so you can lay lots of empty conduit and pull cable through when and where you need it, at a later date. As said above, it helps if you put string in the empty tubes as you lay them, which will help pull through the cable later.

Single strand ethernet cable is not meant to be bent repeatedly, so it will be more reliable to terminate each cable with a Cat 6 face plate at one end, and at the other end run each cable to a central location and install a patch panel.

 

[LogicalRon]

Another vote here for plastic conduit. The wider the better.

Metal conduit may require grounding according to your local code. Plastic will not.

You may also want to check if there are code requirements to run "plenum" conduit, which will not give off poisonous fumes in a fire. I suspect that means polythene tubing, rather than PVC, but you may want to check. Where I live they are coloured differently.

The great advantage of putting cables in tubes is that when the next networking technology arrives, you can simply pull the new type of cable (or fibre?) into the tube without reopening the walls. And of course for an additional TV you can pull coax through the tubes instead, if you wish.

The empty conduit costs very little, so you can lay lots of empty conduit and pull cable through when and where you need it, at a later date. As said above, it helps if you put string in the empty tubes as you lay them, which will help pull through the cable later.

Single strand ethernet cable is not meant to be bent repeatedly, so it will be more reliable to terminate each cable with a Cat 6 face plate at one end, and at the other end run each cable to a central location and install a patch panel.

 

[LogicalRon]

Yes I have decided to have the electrician run the conduit and i plan to have them run it to everywhere I plan to have cat6 or may need in the future. I'm using keystone jacks at the walls and I have a switch I am using connected to my router.

when you have a pull string run with the cables and ever have to use it do you just connect another string to the new cables you pull through? that is the only thing that makes sense to me>

 

[CaptainSTX]

you have a pull string run with the cables and ever have to use it do you just connect another string to the new cables you pull through? that is the only thing that makes sense to me>

Yes. But at some time the conduit may have too many cables to pull another cable through. With low voltage cables there is no code defined maximum number of cables. If you have locations in the conduit that will remain accessible in the future after walls are closed you might want to include some pull boxes. Even using good lube it may be very difficult to pull a cable around more than three bends.

 

[degrub]

and use long radius bends to help.

 

[Greg72]

Yes. But at some time the conduit may have too many cables to pull another cable through. With low voltage cables there is no code defined maximum number of cables. If you have locations in the conduit that will remain accessible in the future after walls are closed you might want to include some pull boxes. Even using good lube it may be very difficult to pull a cable around more than three bends.

Actually there are fill limit codes for even LV wiring. Ethernet can carry Power if used for POE and has to still abide by the fill codes whether it is POE or not. https://www.ecmag.com/section/codes...nd-amapacity-calculations-low-voltage-systems

 

[Greg72]

This code applies with wiring used for Communications also, regardless if Data or Telecom, since they like LV lighting, can be used to carry power, especially Ethernet used doe POE. https://www.ecmweb.com/content/code-rules-low-voltage-lighting

 

[CaptainSTX]

Perhaps I should have said communication's wiring instead of low voltage wiring. Since most communication's wiring is jacketed I have no idea how you would calculate the allowable number in cables in a conduit since each cable has multiple conductors. For normal electrical circuits I do know that you are not supposed to run jacketed cables such as Romex in conduits.

 

[Greg72]

You calculate fill with the fill tables, regardless of what kind of wiring that it is.

 

[CaptainSTX]

From the article you posted:

Note 5 allows multiconductor cables to be installed using the actual dimensions (diameter of the cable) to be inserted into the formula for the area of a circle =1/4 times p times diameter squared or 0.7854 X d2. Note 9 is an extremely important note that allows a multiconductor cable of two or more conductors to be treated as a single conductor for calculating the percentage of conduit fill.

In reading the article you attached the conduit fill for multi conductor cables is calculated based on the diameter of the cable including jacket. That is a different approach than what is done with electrical power systems where multiconductor cables are not normally run in conduits.

From another article: (Author Richard Neuman )

Recommended conduit sizing for Cat6 cables are:

(3) Cables – 1/2″ Conduit
(5) Cables – 3/4″ Conduit
(8) Cables – 1″ Conduit
(14) Cables – 1- 1/4″ Conduit
(19) Cables – 1- 1/2″ Conduit
(32) Cables – 2″ Conduit

The sheer bulk of Cat5e or Cat 6 cables and the ability to get them through a conduit is probably going to be the limiting factor on the number of cables.

If you use the the diameter of an Ethernet cable as .1702 inches and the the inside diameter of a PVC40 conduit as .602 inches, then using the standard 40% allowable fill limit you could theoretically run five Ethernet cables in a 1/2" conduit. Good luck with that.

The purpose of limiting wires in a conduit is to prevent overheating of the insulation and possible fires. I have never felt a warm data cable. Even with the low power used by POE devices cables and where either two or four conductors are being used, I have never noticed the cable being warm.. The one POE device I have uses just 12 watts. Therefor I doubt that you would need to reduce the number of cables to prevent over heating.

If you live in a jurisdiction where electrical inspectors force you to calculate and furnish conduit fill data for both data and telephone cables in conduit all I can say is wow!

NOTE: I made my calculations above using the calculations as outline in the NEC (Chapter 9 Table 4 ) and not using the formulas included in the articles you attached.

 

[PolarBear]

and use long radius bends to help.

.... or use corrugated plastic smurf tube, which can be bent to whatever radius you like

 

[LogicalRon]

.... or use corrugated plastic smurf tube, which can be bent to whatever radius you like

Thanks for all the replies,

I just checked out the smurf tubing you suggested and it says it is code for com wiring and would make sense. It also looks very easy to install. with a bit of advice from my electrician I would assume that I could run 1" tubing to all the areas I need and some I might need in the future and run extra cat6 cables to all locations with the 1" tubing, I also like the quick connect fittings and blue boxes that the tubing uses.

I also have a general question about my wifi I hope it's okay to add that question to this thread. I'm building a 1800 sq.ft. single story rambler. I'm trying to figure the best location for my home network, router,switch and cable modem to be located so that the wifi signal will be good thought the house. There is nowhere at this point in the middle of the house that I'd like to have everything without it being a eye sore.

I have an office on one side of the house that I want to base the network out of and run cat6 to all data outlets which isn't an issue since I will be running cat6 to all the main locations for all devices that will be connected via cat6. With just wood studs and drywall I shouldn't have any issues with my networking equipment being able to broadcast a good strong wifi signal throughout the house without any slow or dead spots? I'm not concerned about the wifi extending outside.

I put my equipment in my signature so anyone who wants to give input can see what I am using. If this is the wrong forum for this question please say so and I will gladly edit my post and start a new thread but I think this all goes together??

 

[CaptainSTX]

In addition to where you want to install your network equipment you need to take into consideration where your Internet service will come into your home. In most jurisdictions to satisfy code and grounding requirements your service provider will want this location to be within a few feet of where your electrical service enters your home. At this location your ISP will install their demarc. If your service will be provided by a cable company you will need to run a coaxial cable from their demarc to your office.

As for wifi you can try covering your home from a single router but to hedge your bets install at least one Ethernet location in a centrally located ceiling position for a future AP. To give yourself maximum flexibility you should also need to provide AC power at this point. It is possible to install a box that has both the AC and a Cat6 cable. If you don't provide the AC power then you will need to power the AP using POE. There are pluses and minus to either approach.

 

[PolarBear]

I would assume that I could run 1" tubing to all the areas I need

If you find the size of the tubing makes it difficult to route around obstacles, you could always run 2 or more smaller tubes in parallel.

If this is the wrong forum for this question please say so and I will gladly edit my post and start a new thread

We are generally a tolerant lot here but your question might indeed have better visibilty in a different section. But as we are both here I will venture a few comments

With just wood studs and drywall I shouldn't have any issues with my networking equipment being able to broadcast a good strong wifi signal throughout the house without any slow or dead spots?

The main sources of attenuation would be kitchen appliances (metal), bathrooms (tiled walls) and fireplaces (brick or stone chimney stacks.) So you may want to arrange things so that these items do not get in the line of sight between your router and the devices you wish to use.

But a WiFi signal attentuates with distance, especially the 5GHz band. A signal passing through a wall at a very shallow angle will be more attenuated than a signal passing through perpendicular to the wall. And radio propagation is always somewhat unpredictable.

So you may want to seize the never-to-be-repeated opportunity to run conduit to the far end of the house, where you could later install a WiFi Access Point if you find the signal from the main WiFi router is too weak.

(An Access Point using a wired connection back to the main router will always be easier to set up and give better results IMHO than using some form of repeater which also uses WiFi to communicate to the main router.)

When running cable, the mantra is "structured cabling", which means running all cables back to a central point. It seems as though your office would be a good place for this, as you mention that you will base your network from there.

The house build sounds like an exciting project and I wish you lots of enjoyment with it !

 

[degrub]

show us a floor plan view of your house.
there are a lot of ways to get 1800 sqr. ft area.

You may be able to put ceiling boxes in while the framing is open that you can mount an AP to now or in the future.
Most look like a smoke detector.

 

[coxhaus]

Conduit sounds fun and exciting but once you get your cabling done you will never touch it again. If you made a mistake with some of your cable drops then conduit is not going to help and maybe cause more problems trying fix it. I would just hire someone that knows code and does cabling. Mark on your blue print where you want your drops and be done with it.

 

[LogicalRon]

In addition to where you want to install your network equipment you need to take into consideration where your Internet service will come into your home. In most jurisdictions to satisfy code and grounding requirements your service provider will want this location to be within a few feet of where your electrical service enters your home. At this location your ISP will install their demarc. If your service will be provided by a cable company you will need to run a coaxial cable from their demarc to your office.

As for wifi you can try covering your home from a single router but to hedge your bets install at least one Ethernet location in a centrally located ceiling position for a future AP. To give yourself maximum flexibility you should also need to provide AC power at this point. It is possible to install a box that has both the AC and a Cat6 cable. If you don't provide the AC power then you will need to power the AP using POE. There are pluses and minus to either approach.

Thank you for your reply, yes I'm well aware of how my cable company has to install my Internet. Currently I live in a two-story rambler in my Internet is connected to a demark board in my basement and then I run a coaxial from that connection to my cable modem. In my new home it will not be any different, the demark will be in a mechanical room. I will then run coaxial from that point to the area where I will have my modem router and switch.

I see your point about wiring for future AP but with my current equipment being able to cover a two-story house very well I doubt I will run into any problems on a single story, however your point about a future AP is noted and appreciated.

 

[LogicalRon]

If you find the size of the tubing makes it difficult to route around obstacles, you could always run 2 or more smaller tubes in parallel.




We are generally a tolerant lot here but your question might indeed have better visibilty in a different section. But as we are both here I will venture a few comments




The main sources of attenuation would be kitchen appliances (metal), bathrooms (tiled walls) and fireplaces (brick or stone chimney stacks.) So you may want to arrange things so that these items do not get in the line of sight between your router and the devices you wish to use.

But a WiFi signal attentuates with distance, especially the 5GHz band. A signal passing through a wall at a very shallow angle will be more attenuated than a signal passing through perpendicular to the wall. And radio propagation is always somewhat unpredictable.

So you may want to seize the never-to-be-repeated opportunity to run conduit to the far end of the house, where you could later install a WiFi Access Point if you find the signal from the main WiFi router is too weak.

(An Access Point using a wired connection back to the main router will always be easier to set up and give better results IMHO than using some form of repeater which also uses WiFi to communicate to the main router.)

When running cable, the mantra is "structured cabling", which means running all cables back to a central point. It seems as though your office would be a good place for this, as you mention that you will base your network from there.

The house build sounds like an exciting project and I wish you lots of enjoyment with it !

Thanks for all the great information, many of you have mentioned a future AP and I will take that into consideration. With the set up I'm planning is to hardwire every device that would need access to the Internet like smart TVs, computers, areas where laptops could be used. Like I said in a previous post my current Internet networking equipment covers about 2800 square feet right now without any problem when it comes to Wi-Fi. The house on building is a single-story 1800 Sq. Ft. with no rock, tile or anything else that could cause problems with the Wi-Fi signal. In my office there's a huge walk-in closet and I plan to locate my networking equipment in a corner of that walk-in. To the rest of the house there's only one main wall before the great room, the knook and the kitchen. I seriously doubt they will be anything that would interfere with my Wi-Fi signal from where I'm planning on placing everything. Like I said I design this house with many things in mind and that was one of them.

I do appreciate all the advice

 

[CaptainSTX]

Whatever you decide to install be it loose cables, conduit or smurf tube be sure to install nail plates on both sides of any wooden stud where the cable passes through a stud on a horizontal run. Nothing ruins a cable faster than having a drywall screw drilled into it or a nail from hanging something on the wall.

 

[LogicalRon]

Whatever you decide to install be it loose cables, conduit or smurf tube be sure to install nail plates on both sides of any wooden stud where the cable passes through a stud on a horizontal run. Nothing ruins a cable faster than having a drywall screw drilled into it or a nail from hanging something on the wall.

Thanks I will keep that in mind