Diary Of My Switch To Internet TV
- Thread starter flamaest
- Start date
flamaest
Regular Contributor
It should be out anytime now.. You can sign up on the Dlink site and they will send you an email to get the $199 unit. It's a steal for what you are getting. http://www.dlink.com/boxeebox
My video on this unit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_07oasmLIA4
My video on this unit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_07oasmLIA4
You do not have to wait for the Boxee box. You can download the Beta now onto any Windows (or other) system and try it out for yourself.
The WAF ("Wife Acceptance Factor") is the big barrier. I don't think you overcome it with any of the solutions out there right now. I currently have a WDTV Live serving content off a HP Media Smart server, and I like the combination a lot, but the WAF on even that is low (even with a Harmony remote). TV options for that set up are extremely limited, but apps like Playon can open the web up to you through the WDTV Live.
But the WAF remains. We are keeping our Dish system for now, even though she complains about the cost (nearly $90 a month).
My venture into a HTPC was entirely unsuccessful, but I was using an older Compaq computer without HDMI. Not suitable with our new TV.
We do not get OTA service by antenna, so local stations have to be from cable or satellite. Basic cable in our area, after you add in the taxes and fees, runs about $30. IF you can get network locals with an antenna, you can pare down your costs quite a bit.
Sites like clicker.com and hulu.com help, but I'm not sure you could automate viewing and time-shifting in a TiVO like fashion.
So I think we're close, but not close enough yet.
But the WAF remains. We are keeping our Dish system for now, even though she complains about the cost (nearly $90 a month).
My venture into a HTPC was entirely unsuccessful, but I was using an older Compaq computer without HDMI. Not suitable with our new TV.
We do not get OTA service by antenna, so local stations have to be from cable or satellite. Basic cable in our area, after you add in the taxes and fees, runs about $30. IF you can get network locals with an antenna, you can pare down your costs quite a bit.
Sites like clicker.com and hulu.com help, but I'm not sure you could automate viewing and time-shifting in a TiVO like fashion.
So I think we're close, but not close enough yet.
Mr. Fahrenheit
New Around Here
Read your reasoning about an HTPC with interest, because I have just started down the same rutted road. Thought seriously about the WD TV Live, but in the same vein as getting a TV that has widgets, how long before the widgets are worthless? In my case, I'm looking at something that will do wireless streaming too -- I know full HD streaming might be problematic, but I'm willing to cross that bridge when I come to it. In the meantime, I am thinking an HTPC with a Bluray drive and a wireless N connection should do fine for a good while.
FWIW, a friend of mine is using a mac mini layered with Plex Media Center and is very happy. The fact that there's no hdmi / bluray mac minis out there and the cost of a mini are keeping me away for now.
Something the form factor of a mini or a Dell Zino would be nice, I may just end up waiting for prices to drop somewhat.
FWIW, a friend of mine is using a mac mini layered with Plex Media Center and is very happy. The fact that there's no hdmi / bluray mac minis out there and the cost of a mini are keeping me away for now.
Something the form factor of a mini or a Dell Zino would be nice, I may just end up waiting for prices to drop somewhat.
I've tried the boxee beta software and I'm unhappy with the way some of the content is presented (e.g. hulu content always displays incorrectly and truncates picture). I tried updating my codecs and software per boxee's recommendations, but it was very frustrating and didn't yield anything positive.
I'm hoping that the boxee box will fix all the "software" issues and will be able to show everything it promises.
jferguson75
New Around Here
Windows Media Center!
I've been using Windows Media Center for over 2 years (both Vista and now Windows 7) and I couldn't be happier.
Because I couldn't afford to get a standalone computer for it back then, I opted for the new extenders (at the time). I got the Linksys without the DVD player.
I tried doing it wirelessly at first but 802.11g just wasn't good enough for SD TV, even now that I have 802.11n, it still has a bit of trouble. Wireless is just not good for this kind of stuff. It worked most of the time but you'd get pauses and a network issue every so often. Luckily my computer got moved upstairs and I was able to run an ethernet cable directly to it.
Now I have all of my movies (and more importantly my kids' movies) on the hard drive. We ditched cable/dish and now use OTA broadcasts exclusively. The only thing that makes this work is the built-in DVR functionality of WMC. It makes it so that we only end up watching the shows we truly want to watch.
As for internet TV, hulu, CBS, youtube, etc is accessible via PlayOn and a WMC plugin called vmcPlayIt. They haven't always worked well, but they're currently in a good state. And this is all via an extender!
I recently bought a new computer so my old computer is exclusively being used for media now. I don't have a graphics card that outputs SD and I'm still watching TV on an old tube so I'm still using the extender.
The WAF is high and so is my satisfaction with the system. My kids can use the remote and queue up their own shows and movies. Eventually I do want a directly connected standalone media center computer when I can get one. It eliminates some of the complexity of the system. But for now I'm happy with it until I can get the second media computer.
If you're going to stick with dish or cable, it doesn't make sense to do this. You might as well use their integrated dvr and get some sort of streaming DLMA client for movies and internet tv. But if you want to get rid of the cable bill, this is the only way to go!
I've been using Windows Media Center for over 2 years (both Vista and now Windows 7) and I couldn't be happier.
Because I couldn't afford to get a standalone computer for it back then, I opted for the new extenders (at the time). I got the Linksys without the DVD player.
I tried doing it wirelessly at first but 802.11g just wasn't good enough for SD TV, even now that I have 802.11n, it still has a bit of trouble. Wireless is just not good for this kind of stuff. It worked most of the time but you'd get pauses and a network issue every so often. Luckily my computer got moved upstairs and I was able to run an ethernet cable directly to it.
Now I have all of my movies (and more importantly my kids' movies) on the hard drive. We ditched cable/dish and now use OTA broadcasts exclusively. The only thing that makes this work is the built-in DVR functionality of WMC. It makes it so that we only end up watching the shows we truly want to watch.
As for internet TV, hulu, CBS, youtube, etc is accessible via PlayOn and a WMC plugin called vmcPlayIt. They haven't always worked well, but they're currently in a good state. And this is all via an extender!
I recently bought a new computer so my old computer is exclusively being used for media now. I don't have a graphics card that outputs SD and I'm still watching TV on an old tube so I'm still using the extender.
The WAF is high and so is my satisfaction with the system. My kids can use the remote and queue up their own shows and movies. Eventually I do want a directly connected standalone media center computer when I can get one. It eliminates some of the complexity of the system. But for now I'm happy with it until I can get the second media computer.
If you're going to stick with dish or cable, it doesn't make sense to do this. You might as well use their integrated dvr and get some sort of streaming DLMA client for movies and internet tv. But if you want to get rid of the cable bill, this is the only way to go!
I'm having a similar experience that I will describe further in the series.
One of the issues is that you need a machine that's fast enough. Just what that is, is under debate. Some say a single core machine like the Aspire Revo 1600 is fine. Others say you need dual-core.
The other issue is the ongoing battle between Boxee and Hulu. Hulu doesn't want Boxee accessing their content, so they keep changing things to break Boxee. Right now, I notice that NBC shows (Chuck, 30 Rock) are coming from NBC.com and not Hulu. Playback on the Revo 1600 is terrible, most likely because of the boxee browser workaround they need to use.
But accessing the same content via Hulu desktop plays nicely.
The Boxee box will have appropriate hardware (it better!). But the content that will be available and the hoops Boxee needs to go through to access it will be an evolving story.
In other words, don't assume the Boxee box will solve all the problems you currently see with the Boxee Beta!
Excellent advice, Tim. I plan on waiting a bit and reading boxee box reviews first, so I can make an "informed" purchase. I'll be all ears when you get your hands on one.
As for your other comments above, I'm running a similar set up to yours, but I'm using the aspire revo 3610 with windows 7. The 3610 has a dual core processor, and I can tell you that non-hulu boxee content plays fine on it. From what I've read, the only difference between the aspire revo 3610 and 1600 is the ion processor and the ability to use adobe flash 10.1. Flash content does play very well on it, but not all of my media is flash based.
But as jferguson mentioned above, the most seamless application for media browsing and playback for my system is Windows Media Center. It's simply the best interface for playing ripped DVD's, internet TV, and even viewing photos on the big screen.
The next step for me at this point is over the air HD channels for free. I'm still researching the best way to do this (e.g. which antenna to buy, how to connect, etc.).
convergent
Occasional Visitor
I'm also on this same journey. I have 3 Tivos... 1 HD and two Series 2. My frustration began with Time Warner blocking any multi-room viewing of most channels, blocking even recording MLB Extra Innings, and now their fiasco called Switched Digital Video which results in dropped channels all the time from the Tivo. Their own box is flakey as well, so its not Tivo's problem. Not to mention they charge a small fortune for this stuff. Then I ordered and returned two Tivo XLs around Christmas because they had a bug in them that would cause them to hang when starting. So I started looking at ways to cut the cord.
I am a Mac user for the last 2 years, and Windows also going back to the beginning of PCs. I am still experimenting on using either an Acer Revo 3610 or a Mac Mini for my home theater PC. We are already using Harmony One remotes on our TVs, so the switch should be a lot easier for the family with some remote programming.
I've gone deeper with the Revo so far, and found that it holds up pretty well for the important stuff, but is very sluggish in moving through the WMC menus. I've talked to someone that runs Windows 7 on a Mac Mini doing the same thing and it is very snappy. Be that as it may, I am using it connected to a Sony 46" and Sony receiver via HDMI. For TV input I'm using a dual tuner HDHomerun. I have Hulu Desktop and Boxee both setup to launch from within WMC. It streams some things exceptionally well, and some not so much. It struggles most in Boxee, yet with current drivers and Flash 10.1 beta, it isn't straining the CPU at all, so not sure why its struggling. It is capable of very good playback. In fact, any 1080P trailers on YouTube playback flawlessly. So I am guessing my inconsistency is tied to the server side of these various sources. Hulu is pretty consistently good. I did some torture tests last night and it held up well. I had it recording an HD channel via HDHomerun and then was able to watch other HD channels, watch a Netflix movie via WMC, and even watch a show in HD on Hulu... and the recording was flawless.
On the Mac Mini side, the biggest deficiency is there isn't a media center base that has built-in Live TV and DVR like WMC. I like Plex the most and it seems to have some great potential. For one thing, it has a plug-in to stream straight from my Tivos. My Tivo HD has lifetime on it, so I could conceivably set that up for OTA recording and just let it collect shows Tivo style, and then access them from Plex. I am looking at how I can use the Harmony one to get me in and out of Live TV/DVR via EyeTV which is the best solution there. There are some people that have integrated LiveTV DVR into Plex, but its kind of sketchy and experimental... not something I want to turn over to the wife.
My biggest disappointment is MLB.TV. It seems to be very inconsistent, and is almost always bad on the Revo. On my Mac, it does well half the time, and others it struggles. MLB claims they aren't fully up and running for this year yet, but even the archived games are inconsistent. I'm not sure why this is because they claim they only need 3mbps down for highest quality, and the Revo is only hitting 35% CPU when its playing. I have 20mbps down from Road Runner Turbo. It definitely plays better on the Mac. Unfortunately, they aren't going to turn on their Boxee plugin until regular season starts. I'd like to test that. Its surprising that they don't have an MLB.TV plug-in for WMC too. There is a very basic live streaming MLB.TV plug-in for Plex that works... but no DVR or playing archived games.
That's where I'm at. I need to buy a Mac Mini so I can test it further and reach a final decision.
The best place for a guide to setting up your Revo is http://www.pauljroberts.com/my-personal-revo-3610-set-up-that-works-well . His guide got my Revo from being unusably slow to not too bad.
I am a Mac user for the last 2 years, and Windows also going back to the beginning of PCs. I am still experimenting on using either an Acer Revo 3610 or a Mac Mini for my home theater PC. We are already using Harmony One remotes on our TVs, so the switch should be a lot easier for the family with some remote programming.
I've gone deeper with the Revo so far, and found that it holds up pretty well for the important stuff, but is very sluggish in moving through the WMC menus. I've talked to someone that runs Windows 7 on a Mac Mini doing the same thing and it is very snappy. Be that as it may, I am using it connected to a Sony 46" and Sony receiver via HDMI. For TV input I'm using a dual tuner HDHomerun. I have Hulu Desktop and Boxee both setup to launch from within WMC. It streams some things exceptionally well, and some not so much. It struggles most in Boxee, yet with current drivers and Flash 10.1 beta, it isn't straining the CPU at all, so not sure why its struggling. It is capable of very good playback. In fact, any 1080P trailers on YouTube playback flawlessly. So I am guessing my inconsistency is tied to the server side of these various sources. Hulu is pretty consistently good. I did some torture tests last night and it held up well. I had it recording an HD channel via HDHomerun and then was able to watch other HD channels, watch a Netflix movie via WMC, and even watch a show in HD on Hulu... and the recording was flawless.
On the Mac Mini side, the biggest deficiency is there isn't a media center base that has built-in Live TV and DVR like WMC. I like Plex the most and it seems to have some great potential. For one thing, it has a plug-in to stream straight from my Tivos. My Tivo HD has lifetime on it, so I could conceivably set that up for OTA recording and just let it collect shows Tivo style, and then access them from Plex. I am looking at how I can use the Harmony one to get me in and out of Live TV/DVR via EyeTV which is the best solution there. There are some people that have integrated LiveTV DVR into Plex, but its kind of sketchy and experimental... not something I want to turn over to the wife.
My biggest disappointment is MLB.TV. It seems to be very inconsistent, and is almost always bad on the Revo. On my Mac, it does well half the time, and others it struggles. MLB claims they aren't fully up and running for this year yet, but even the archived games are inconsistent. I'm not sure why this is because they claim they only need 3mbps down for highest quality, and the Revo is only hitting 35% CPU when its playing. I have 20mbps down from Road Runner Turbo. It definitely plays better on the Mac. Unfortunately, they aren't going to turn on their Boxee plugin until regular season starts. I'd like to test that. Its surprising that they don't have an MLB.TV plug-in for WMC too. There is a very basic live streaming MLB.TV plug-in for Plex that works... but no DVR or playing archived games.
That's where I'm at. I need to buy a Mac Mini so I can test it further and reach a final decision.
The best place for a guide to setting up your Revo is http://www.pauljroberts.com/my-personal-revo-3610-set-up-that-works-well . His guide got my Revo from being unusably slow to not too bad.
Thanks, everyone, for your posts. Lots of useful info that I'll be following up on.
I'm surprised at the multiple suggestions I've seen regarding Windows Media Center. Last time I looked (well over a year ago), their TV options were very slim. Have offerings really improved that much?
I'm surprised at the multiple suggestions I've seen regarding Windows Media Center. Last time I looked (well over a year ago), their TV options were very slim. Have offerings really improved that much?
My wife and I have been doing the internet TV thing for about a year now.
I've looked at the packaged soluations like boxee, the various media boxes and they all come up lacking as far as I am concerned so right now we just use our computer hooked up to a HDTV with a NAS to store ISOs.
We have a netflix subscription, use hulu, PBS, and some channel specific websites. I really wish boxee had just a little more functionality but I like the interface. Anyways, some day here in the future I'll hopefully be able to switch to some set top box like boxee.
I'm very interested to see what you come up. Your howto type articles are my fav.
-e
I've looked at the packaged soluations like boxee, the various media boxes and they all come up lacking as far as I am concerned so right now we just use our computer hooked up to a HDTV with a NAS to store ISOs.
We have a netflix subscription, use hulu, PBS, and some channel specific websites. I really wish boxee had just a little more functionality but I like the interface. Anyways, some day here in the future I'll hopefully be able to switch to some set top box like boxee.
I'm very interested to see what you come up. Your howto type articles are my fav.
-e
Price complaints
I've been seriously considering cutting the cable cord, too...and the recent rumors that Apple possibly might be coming out with an HDMI-equipped Mac Mini got me even more interested.
Frankly, though, I'm a little perplexed by the seeming-obsession with the cost of the device that one could use. I mean, who cares if the device (Mac Mini, Acer Aspire, etc.) costs $150 or $600? Or even a couple hundred more?
I currently pay $135 a month for cable. Even if I put together a system that costs $1000, I'll recoup the full cost in less than 8 months!
Like many folks out there, I already have many of the pieces in place. I have a 52" LCD, a PS3, a 5.1 HT receiver. Something I haven't seen (anywhere, including here) is an actual step-by-step "how-to"-style compendium of information and advice that can tell me how to get the process started with a minimum of headache.
(Specifically, I want my cable-free solution based around a Mac Mini, so if anyone knows of a like-themed website, please point me in the right direction.)
I've tried to glean info from these (and other) forums, but trying to pull out the nuggets of valid information from within all the sniping and posturing makes my eyes roll back in my head....
I've been seriously considering cutting the cable cord, too...and the recent rumors that Apple possibly might be coming out with an HDMI-equipped Mac Mini got me even more interested.
Frankly, though, I'm a little perplexed by the seeming-obsession with the cost of the device that one could use. I mean, who cares if the device (Mac Mini, Acer Aspire, etc.) costs $150 or $600? Or even a couple hundred more?
I currently pay $135 a month for cable. Even if I put together a system that costs $1000, I'll recoup the full cost in less than 8 months!
Like many folks out there, I already have many of the pieces in place. I have a 52" LCD, a PS3, a 5.1 HT receiver. Something I haven't seen (anywhere, including here) is an actual step-by-step "how-to"-style compendium of information and advice that can tell me how to get the process started with a minimum of headache.
(Specifically, I want my cable-free solution based around a Mac Mini, so if anyone knows of a like-themed website, please point me in the right direction.)
I've tried to glean info from these (and other) forums, but trying to pull out the nuggets of valid information from within all the sniping and posturing makes my eyes roll back in my head....
I see two big complications to this whole TV/Movies via the computer.
1) Sound, It is a complete an utter pain if you want to do surround sound and HiDef. The new ATI cards can pass through the sound to your reciever and let it decode the sound. Anyways, so far I've just said heck with sound and go with 2 channel.
2) Congregating all your content in an easy to find/easy to use area. Boxee is a great step in that direction but right now Hulu doesn't work..you can't go to the various channel specific websites for the most parts, etc etc. We just run a wireless keyboard and mouse to get by this, but it is far from ideal from an ease of use stand point. Boxee is great because of the ease of use but the content is lacking in my opinion.
My previous post was light on detail on how we do stuff. We use anydvd to rip ISOs to our NAS. Mplayer Home cinema is a great Blueray player for unencoded content (which anydvd will strip from bluerays) So far compressing Blueray content is a pain.
TV content we get from Hulu, Netflix, abc.com nbc.com PBS, etc. Some stuff we have to wait from to come out on DVD/blueray. Overall I don't miss cable at all, but everyonce in a long while the whole thing is a little bit complicated...luckily my wife is understanding.
-e
1) Sound, It is a complete an utter pain if you want to do surround sound and HiDef. The new ATI cards can pass through the sound to your reciever and let it decode the sound. Anyways, so far I've just said heck with sound and go with 2 channel.
2) Congregating all your content in an easy to find/easy to use area. Boxee is a great step in that direction but right now Hulu doesn't work..you can't go to the various channel specific websites for the most parts, etc etc. We just run a wireless keyboard and mouse to get by this, but it is far from ideal from an ease of use stand point. Boxee is great because of the ease of use but the content is lacking in my opinion.
My previous post was light on detail on how we do stuff. We use anydvd to rip ISOs to our NAS. Mplayer Home cinema is a great Blueray player for unencoded content (which anydvd will strip from bluerays) So far compressing Blueray content is a pain.
TV content we get from Hulu, Netflix, abc.com nbc.com PBS, etc. Some stuff we have to wait from to come out on DVD/blueray. Overall I don't miss cable at all, but everyonce in a long while the whole thing is a little bit complicated...luckily my wife is understanding.
-e
Dan Gravell
New Around Here
I haven't seen MythTV mentioned yet. This is what I use, and have found it excellent and stable, although I think it does generally take more effort to get running in the first place.
The WAF of Myth is very high in my experience. When we had some downtime due to a hard drive crash she repeatedly asked me "when are you going to mend Myth?".
The latest versions are nicely compatible with the Revo, utilising the VDPAU API. It can show HD with low processor usage.
The WAF of Myth is very high in my experience. When we had some downtime due to a hard drive crash she repeatedly asked me "when are you going to mend Myth?".
The latest versions are nicely compatible with the Revo, utilising the VDPAU API. It can show HD with low processor usage.
I'm open to looking at anything. But how does a DVR free me of cable / satellite TV?
Dan Gravell
New Around Here
It depends on the motivation for having cable/satellite in the first place. A lot of people (this depends on your country of origin) are attached to the idea that it is the TV providers who provide timeshifting capability. Of course, this isn't the case.
Adopting a DVR can give you much more control over how you view TV, allowing you to pick your own hardware (such as the Revo), stripping out adverts etc. You get HD _implied_ rather than an 'upsell'. Plus DVRs are more than recorders these days, they are more like aggregators, sucking in other content from online sources e.g. Hulu (again depending on your country).
But ultimately if the content is only accessible via the cable/satellite service then yeah, you'll still have to have a subscription to that service.
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