Discussion: General consensus on ASUS vs LINKSYS vs NETGEAR vs TP-link?

[RMerlin]

There's still some Linksys legacy in the Cisco SMB product lineup - the RV's where Linksys designs...

And they are all nearing EOL now (I believe the last models will be EOL in September 2022).

 

[L&LD]

I'm fast approaching the '75-year-old relative' bracket, many of my customers are there and above. Asus + RMerlin is still the best solution for them (for many, only with my help).

I don't offer my services to anyone that can do it on their own. Although I have helped a few get started with RMerlin, firmware, and routers (in general) over the years.

The reasons are the same. WiFi isn't a one-and-done solution. It is something that is constantly evolving and needs the ability to tweak as required at that future time (the 'hooks', that RMerlin provides). While a two-button setup is great when it works today, it is trash when tomorrow it doesn't. And firmware jumping (particularly downgrading) isn't an option either in today's world.

In this last decade (and at the beginning, very, very slowly), I have slowly learned the basics of 'routers' and am able to quickly and effectively deploy them in a stable and reliable state and one that also meets the customer's expectations for performance too.

I've tried to use NetGear, Apple, Linksys, and other solutions over the years, not because I wasn't already sold on Asus/RMerlin, but because the customers insisted those options be used. Eventually, they all moved to an Asus/RMerlin solution.

Today, I am able to choose the customers I want to help. And they are using exclusively Asus/RMerlin supported hardware. Not because of some blind loyalism. But because it is the system I've found that works for the long run.

Yes, the above still may be considered only my opinion. The facts though, speak for themselves.

 

[TheLostSwede]

What can be said about the different manufacturers? What are their typical traits? What is this forums consensus on them? What are they known for, good and bad?

So far this is my impression:

• Linksys: Expensive, less intrusive looks-wise, stable firmware, but few features and long between updates
• Netgear: Can get very expensive, looks appealing to gamers, but firmware is unstable and buggy
• TP-Link: Great value, top of the line hardware, but sold cheap reflected in build-quality and firmware
• ASUS: Expensive, good performance, feature rich and stable firmware. Not family-room friendly looks.

Not used Linksys for ages, they seem to be a bit of a mess since they were first taken over by Cisco, then Belkin and finally Foxconn. Not a company that sells products where I currently live.

Netgear seems to have improved their support, I guess I'm biased based on my R7800 being the best router I've ever owned in terms of stability and I don't say that lightly, as I used to work for a router manufacturer that at the time made some of the best supported products out there. Obviously Voxel's firmware support helps immensely here as well.

TP-Link picked the right name, as they really are TP when it comes to firmware updates, support etc. Hardware tends to be fine, but it's not great and they have way too many minor hardware revisions that require different firmwares, which means that support for the previous hardware revision is dropped like a hot turd.

Asus has some very nice products, but support seems to vary a lot, especially models that aren't sold in North America are very poorly supported, as Asus is not under the FCC agreement to support those products. Merlin's firmware helps immensely here as well. Support is better than average for most products.

 

[Tech9]

There is a line of elderly “customers” waiting for someone to come and setup custom firmware router for them. The same elderly customers readily pay >$500 for hardware, plus the “services” to set it up. They all have symmetric Gigabit service and the latency is very important for the games they play. All facts, I guess. My elderly “customers” are easy - 2 people with 5-6 devices. They get TP-Link v2 for $100, few years later another TP-Link v3 for $100.

 

[TheLostSwede]

First, there is no perfect product. Forums tend to focus on product negatives because they are where people go to seek help. So you can't judge products solely by the amount of negative forum posts.

The SNBForums audience is very skewed toward ASUS since we host discussions on RMerlin and others' firmware and ASUS router add-ons. So if you are looking for input from a broad range of product fans, you're unlikely to get it here. @L&LD's response will be typical.

ASUS Wi-Fi routers have the broadest feature set you'll find and they are decent performers. They expose more controls than any other manufacturer. Far more than the average user knows how to deal with, IMO. But if your idea of a good time is constantly experimenting with your router's settings, you like lots of knobs and switches to play with and want the ability to add features, ASUS is the one for you.

That said, NETGEAR hasn't gotten to be the market share leader by making bad product. Yes, they have had wider bricks-and-mortar retail distribution to help them get there, but, again, the products have to work.

Linksys (now owned by Foxconn) used to own the consumer networking market. But when the founders cashed out and sold to Belkin, they lost steam. And since the sale to Foxconn, new products have been few and far between.

TP-Link made a big push a few years back to try to move up a tier or two in the U.S. market. That effort failed, or at least its Taiwanese owners thought it did, because they stopped it, laid most of the U.S. staff off and circled the wagons back at HQ. That said, their Wi-Fi gear isn't the best and it's not the worst. Main weaknesses are limited feature set, outdated UI and very infrequent (if ever) firmware updates. If you're looking for good value in a switch, however, I highly recommend TP-Link.

Couple of things, on your reply here and sorry to be picky, but Linksys sold to Cisco first and TP-Link is from the PRC, not Taiwan and has no ties with Taiwan at all from what I know.

 

[L&LD]

Yes, some may find it hard to believe there is a world past their own, and what would they think if these elderly represented just a portion of the customers seen during a typical month?

While I provide what I know is the best value (if not the cheapest price), from experience, and from actually using said products, others offer the cheapest price but have no experience with them in their own use.

And the personal digs and assumptions continue. There is no $500 Asus router that I recommend today. Everybody knows that. Expect the ones not using them.

 

[Tech9]

I had to set up my friend with 2x AX86U routers for >$500 instead? Better running alpha firmware and scripts on USB stick. If I was looking to sell services - definitely. The simple fact is there are products for everyone and the best is what fits the needs best. Some people offer specific hardware only for own financial benefit, using someone else's work in form of free firmware and add-ons in the process. There is a company called Flash Routers doing the same thing for years. All the routers they offer are the best. Elderly customers are easy target.

TP-Link M4 turns out to be a very decent product on excellent price, by the way. It even has nice network stats and application filtering in the app. The signal is strong enough everywhere needed and all Wi-Fi devices reach maximum ISP speed. The ISP can be upgraded to 300Mbps and it will still work well - about 440Mbps Wi-Fi from the router and about 250Mbps from the satellite. It has somewhat wife-friendly look as well, no immediate reaction. My "customer" is very happy with it. It's currently on sale for $88 for 2-pack on Amazon, $119 for 3-pack.

 

[Tech9]

TP-Link is from the PRC

Yes, like Huawei. There are millions residential gateways out there made by Huawei. They all work well. Cosco is from USA and multiple backdoors were discovered over the years. Where the hardware originates from is not so important. Does it work for you is important and on what price.

 

[sfx2000]

I'm fast approaching the '75-year-old relative' bracket, many of my customers are there and above. Asus + RMerlin is still the best solution for them (for many, only with my help).

I don't offer my services to anyone that can do it on their own. Although I have helped a few get started with RMerlin, firmware, and routers (in general) over the years.

That is kind of my point

I've got much better things to do with my time than be unpaid tech support. It's less work for me and less frustration for them.

I can tell them - go buy "this device" and be reasonably confident it will work out of the box with little effort.

For many, the less knobs are better if the defaults are in the ballpark - which when one looks at some of the mesh systems that I mentioned earlier, they generally are. Heck, for many, the supplied gateways from the Cable/DSL/Fiber/5G are more than good enough to get folks connected, especially for the demographic we're discussing at the moment.

It's not that they are stupid, on the contrary, most are quite smart and wise in their years, it's just that networking and wireless are not core competencies they have.

I learned a long time ago that perfect is the enemy of good enough.

 

[sfx2000]

And they are all nearing EOL now (I believe the last models will be EOL in September 2022).

RV's are getting long in tooth, and the Cisco Meraki lineup of small business gateways are a good fit capability-wise.

That, and most of the coders that worked on the RV's are likely retired or dead

 

[Tech9]

Heck, for many, the supplied gateways from the Cable/DSL/Fiber/5G are more than good enough to get folks connected

This applies for at least 90% of Internet users regardless of the age group.

Here, people perhaps waiting for routers with custom firmware and installation service:

Home Hub and Pods on 2-year service agreement with TV and Phone bundle discount.

 

[L&LD]

The people on this spectrum I'm usually helping are the ones that not only don't want entry-level solutions for today only but also the ones that have that extra money to spend not only on a better overall (and long-term) product but also to have it properly set up too.

As people keep stating, having an XYZ model that has support for a year or so is a false economy, let alone the questionable security in the first place.

For those that know, for those that can read and follow the guides and suggestions I've collected from the forum members past contributors, (and, for my paying customers), a properly setup Asus/RMerlin router is just as low effort to set up too.

Seems like many, if not most, of the issues reported here, are from users wishing the firmware worked as they were once used to. And the settings, options, and variables get used out of context at times. But it is precisely this adjustability that helps with prolonging an Asus purchase when you buy new devices, a new neighbor pops in next door, or, an existing neighbor's kid discovers 160MHz wide channels nearby.

Perfect is the enemy of the good. But getting good enough comes down to the lowest dollar for many, and that is where we don't agree completely. Because to get to that lowest dollar, we've lost any sense of 'good'. Value is the true question here. For some, stealing the local coffee shop's WiFi is good enough.

 

[Tech9]

The TP-Link system above is an example of excellent value product. Easy and it works very well for under 100 bucks.

The "guides" circulating around SNB give the impression something is fundamentally wrong with all Asus routers and they need very special attention to start working "properly". Most "guides" are breakfast, lunch and dinner time for a new SNB member or with potential "customer". I'm curious - how much I would need to pay for a "proper" Asus AiMesh system setup, let's say 2x Asuswrt-Merlin supported routers?

 

[L&LD]

For some customers, I've done it for gratis. For you, the world is not enough.

The guides take 15 to 20 minutes to be connected and secured. Even translating via Google will put that within half an hour for most people that are willing to learn or just do it themselves.

Very few people need a 2x RT-AXxxx AiMesh network in their homes, even with large families. A single router is more than enough. Even an RT-AX68U, for example.

Report - 2x RT-AX68U upgrade over 2x RT-AC86U in wireless backhaul mode

(Even if the customer in the link above insisted on an AiMesh setup when none was demonstrably shown to be more than sufficient).

 

[sfx2000]

The "guides" circulating around SNB give the impression something is fundamentally wrong with all Asus routers and they need very special attention to start working "properly".

Good question/comment.

I would say that if one pulls it fresh out of the box, runs the setup wizard, it's likely good to go for most people.

With the AsusWRT WebUI, there are a lot of knobs to turn and levers to pull once people start diving into the more esoteric screens, and many of them do things that are not immediately clear to someone that doesn't have a wireless networking background.

That being said, AsusWRT probably has one of the more enthusiastic communities out there, with a lot of contributors - some of those scripts have more value than others, and there is the risk that one can do more harm than good if these are not used properly.

 

[Tech9]

With the AsusWRT WebUI, there are a lot of knobs to turn and levers to pull once people start diving into the more esoteric screens

It works well for most at default settings. This is why I would like to know how much the average "customer" has to pay for a "proper" installation of an Asus router and what's the added value compared to self installation following Asus provided setup guide? It's the paid services offered not needed or Asus guide really bad - one of the two. I don't have any companies around providing home routers installation services.

 

[AndreiV]

This is why I would like to know how much the average "customer" has to pay for a "proper" installation

Amazon and many retailers are mugging people for this "expert installation" at anywhere from £65-£95 in the UK and it is all done by phone.

The best solution for those without the time/inclination or skills is a preset ISP provided router, already set up to be safe when plugged in.

 

[AndreiV]

I'm fast approaching the '75-year-old relative' bracket, many of my customers are there and above..........

and given the level of hyperbole , reboots, resets and M+M configs were probably in their 30's when they first asked for help .

 

[TheLostSwede]

Yes, like Huawei. There are millions residential gateways out there made by Huawei. They all work well. Cosco is from USA and multiple backdoors were discovered over the years. Where the hardware originates from is not so important. Does it work for you is important and on what price.

Relevance?
Tim said it was a Taiwanese company, which is why I mentioned it, as TP-Link isn't from Taiwan.

And yes, origin does matter, maybe not so much of the hardware, but it sure does on the software side, but you clearly have little insight to the difference between a software developer in the PRC and one from a different country. That said, the Taiwanese ones aren't very good most of the time either, so it makes a huge difference as to how secure and how good the final software is.

Personally, I would never have an internet facing TP-Link device with their firmware running on the device, but hey, if you want your clients to be part of a botnet, then good for you.

Just out of curiosity, how many routers have you been involved in developing?

 

[TheLostSwede]

Heck, for many, the supplied gateways from the Cable/DSL/Fiber/5G are more than good enough to get folks connected, especially for the demographic we're discussing at the moment.

I guess we have very different experiences here then.
The devices my parents got from their service providers were woefully out of date and received zero updates, which made them a huge security concern. It was also found and this was only in little Sweden, that most ISP provided devices have poorly secured backdoors for the ISP's to access them through, often with a single password for thousands of devices.
The ISP provided devices also seem to lack a lot of "basic" features, especially with regards to security, which is just crazy.

I'm just glad my ISP is willing to set up my cable modem/router as just a modem, so I can use my own router.