Ditching the AC87.. now what ? 5300 / 3200 /88 ?

[MichaelR64]

So after a year with the AC87 i decided to ditch it because of the bad 5Ghz connections.
Actually the connections are mostly ok but i see that sometimes pictures wont load or browsing and other apps are just slow in loading stuff.
Disconnecting and going tru my LTE connection just blazes away then.

Anyway, so looking at my options : i still want another asus because together my rmerlin fw i can use openvpn .
I have 5 family members, a fiberconnected home made out of concrete floors and (i live in the netherlands , we don't have wooden houses overhere). And i use openvpn to stream my localtv when i am on holiday.
Oh and i placed the router under the wooden stairs at the ground floor, because that place is the only place in the entire house where all the floors are open at the same spot.

So when i am looking at alternatives i see the 5300 @ E449,--, 3200 @ E269,-- and the 88 @ E349,--.
How much more headroom does the 88 platform have ?
Isn't the 5300 unmountable because the 5300 doesn't have mounting studs ?

 

[SoCalReviews]

I'm quite sure neither the 88u nor the 5300u can be wall mounted without using some type of shelf or adapter.

There are many options to mount it to a wall. You could use a bracket mount like the one in the link below for either model. I used this one mounted normal installation to hold my RT-68P and a VoIP device. For the 88u or 5300u you could try mounting normally and placing the router on top of the rails or if you need to try to mount this bracket upside down and use zip ties or other nylon straps to hold and secure the router onto to the aluminum bracket. There are many different sizes of these aluminum bracket mounts. I wouldn't get one any smaller than this for the 88u or 5300u...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EUH4CSE/?tag=snbforums-20

The 88u and the 5300u should be much more stable than your 87u on the 5Ghz band. The hardware specs are improved which translates into less hardware related latency. MU-MIMO features the next wave of technology for wireless devices. The 5300u will also provide tri-band ( 1 - 2.4Ghz and 2 - 5Ghz) with smart connect. Make sure there is room for the new router you choose... both of these are very large routers.

I would avoid the 3200 as an upgrade to the 87u at this time. You won't see much improvement and it will probably be phased out of the Asus router lineup in the next few years in favor of the newer Asus router models.

 

[microchip]

I think you're staring yourself too much at the big numbers. Unless you have a specific need for one of the features the new and high-numbers-routers provide, you best stick to AC1900-class ones, still the "best" price/performance routers at then moment. In the end it's your cash, but don't think that these numbers will magically improve your range

 

[TonyH]

I think you're staring yourself too much at the big numbers. Unless you have a specific need for one of the features the new and high-numbers-routers provide, you best stick to AC1900-class ones, still the "best" price/performance routers at then moment. In the end it's your cash, but don't think that these numbers will magically improve your range

Marketing, Placebo effect, forgetting communication is 2 way affairs. Probably producing near perfect working f/w costs more man-hours than producing a new router with fancy names/numbers. Consumerism is at all time high even if economy is sluggish....

 

[SoCalReviews]

I think you're staring yourself too much at the big numbers. Unless you have a specific need for one of the features the new and high-numbers-routers provide, you best stick to AC1900-class ones, still the "best" price/performance routers at then moment. In the end it's your cash, but don't think that these numbers will magically improve your range

There likely will be a slight range improvement because of improvement in the sensitivity of the newer wireless radio hardware or at least that's what most of the performance tests have shown. 2.4Ghz wireless might be about the same range (potential buyers should reference the comparison test reports). 5Ghz should be much better since the 87u was known to be plagued with 5Ghz radio problems. The newer 88u and 5300u should also be capable of handing more devices with a little higher throughput due to the faster processing. The improvements should be noticed using older or newer wireless devices but it won't necessarily be a night and day difference. Therefore the cost vs. performance gains do have to be taken into consideration.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Marketing, Placebo effect, forgetting communication is 2 way affairs. Probably producing near perfect working f/w costs more man-hours than producing a new router with fancy names/numbers. Consumerism is at all time high even if economy is sluggish....

I'd agree except in regards to the "placebo effect" which is a real measurable effect in medicine... It is not simply a false psychological belief... In fact it is such a real effect that must be taken into account by using control groups that believe they are receiving treatment during testing. The medical scientists still don't know exactly why it happens. I'm not sure there is a "placebo effect" with wireless routers but in all seriousness we don't know since observation, choice and expectation have been proven to have an effect on real world physics experiments at the micro level. It sounds nutty and strange but it's true.

 

[MichaelR64]

Well i use openvpn for tunneling and want t be able to use it with two simultaneous connections. Apart from that i have three kids with laptops and cells and the other usual stuff.
Thats why i wanted something more robust but also beefier to handle openvpn servers.

 

[TonyH]

Well i use openvpn for tunneling and want t be able to use it with two simultaneous connections. Apart from that i have three kids with laptops and cells and the other usual stuff.
Thats why i wanted something more robust but also beefier to handle openvpn servers.

There are VPN friendly router too at prosumer level.

 

[sfx2000]

There are many options to mount it to a wall. You could use a bracket mount like the one in the link below for either model. I used this one mounted normal installation to hold my RT-68P and a VoIP device. For the 88u or 5300u you could try mounting normally and placing the router on top of the rails or if you need to try to mount this bracket upside down and use zip ties or other nylon straps to hold and secure the router onto to the aluminum bracket. There are many different sizes of these aluminum bracket mounts. I wouldn't get one any smaller than this for the 88u or 5300u...

The metal rails on the side can and likely will impact near field RF - so removing the side rails there would be recommended - or a non-metal sheld/bracket would be better...

 

[sfx2000]

There are VPN friendly router too at prosumer level.

Yep, or set up a standalone VPN server, and play with routes and DNS.

 

[TonyH]

I'd agree except in regards to the "placebo effect" which is a real measurable effect in medicine... It is not simply a false psychological belief... In fact it is such a real effect that must be taken into account by using control groups that believe they are receiving treatment during testing. The medical scientists still don't know exactly why it happens. I'm not sure there is a "placebo effect" with wireless routers but in all seriousness we don't know since observation, choice and expectation have been proven to have an effect on real world physics experiments at the micro level. It sounds nutty and strange but it's true.

Human psychology. Still RF is empirical science.

 

[L&LD]

If you have access to a BestBuy, you may want to try an RT-AC1900P with it's 1.4GHz processors for very close to the price of the original RT-AC68U. At that price ($199), you can buy two of them and have much more control over your home network needs for less than the cost of a single RT-AC5300.

You can use one RT-AC1900P as the main router (and VPN client/server) and the second as an AP that can be more appropriately placed as needed. Your overall network experience should be much better than it is now.

Keep in mind that you can use your current router as an AP too (and save even more money), but if disabling the 'router' part of the RT-AC87U doesn't make it more responsive (in addition to being more optimally placed, physically), then a second router would be necessary in any case. (Only testing will tell).

 

[sfx2000]

All three are going to perform about the same - as they're pretty much are the same except for the extras in the box - e.g. the second radio in the AC5300, and the additional realtek switch in the AC88U - so the RT-AC3100 might be the 'goldilocks' box, being "just right" for most people's needs.

The RT-AC3100, by it's nature, is the simplest one of the three, so there's less can go wrong...

Bigger numbers on the box is a classic marketing strategy in this sector, but at the end of the day, the wise/informed buyer will make the smart choice based on needs and capabilities.

 

[SoCalReviews]

The metal rails on the side can and likely will impact near field RF - so removing the side rails there would be recommended - or a non-metal sheld/bracket would be better...

Those are good points to be aware of but I believe the positives outweigh any potential negatives. Using a metal bracket is much preferred for optimum rigidity and strength. I would not want to use any other material with these increasingly large and heavy routers. I don't own an 88u but I don't believe the router will fit inside these brackets anyway...

This is why I recommended either mounting it on top of the rails or mounting the entire bracket with rails upside down. You wouldn't want to block the signal but actually the metal bracket could help disperse and differentiate the MIMO signal which could improve throughput (based on scientific explanations of how MIMO works). Mounting the router up higher usually helps the radio signal for most users. Using that exact bracket dramatically improved the signal strength, quality and reliability from my 68P router.

 

[sfx2000]

Mounting the router up higher usually helps the radio signal for most users. Using that exact bracket dramatically improved the signal strength, quality and reliability from my 68P router (of course in this case the three antennas are floating above the bracket level.

Getting the router higher up is always a good thing - even if it's a small wooden shelf - I recall seeing performance issues a long time back with a wireless AP, come to find it was sitting on top of a metal filing cabinet

The metal was affecting the RF ground plane on the near field - as soon as we moved it to a different location, things sorted themselves out... if anything, put a couple of books underneath the router, and that kind of solves the near field problems.

On the Asus routers that are more vertically oriented - it's probably a non-issue, but something like an RT-AC5300, one should keep the areas around the antennas clear...

Just sharing...

 

[SoCalReviews]

Human psychology. Still RF is empirical science.

I understand your intention was to explain the psychological component of marketing where people feel the need to purchase the latest new products... I agree. But specifically relating that to "the placebo effect"... is not a good term to use since it is not proven to be a purely psychological effect. They don't know exactly how it works. There is a growing body of physicists and medical physicians that it could be the result of known quantum effects based on choice and intent of the observer.

For example the scientific experimental evidence shows absolutely that observation by a conscious observer effects subatomic particles, light, electrons and even macro or larger than atom sized particles. It's not a psychological effect. It's pure physics or more specifically quantum physics. We also know that both light and similarly RF are subject to quantum effects from a conscious observer. Whether that translates into effecting the radio performance of a wireless router... your normal logic says no but science says it's possible... as long as you aren't actively measuring the signal... but it's probably not enough to make any real world difference...I know it's weird but it's true.

 

[sfx2000]

I'd agree except in regards to the "placebo effect" which is a real measurable effect in medicine... It is not simply a false psychological belief... In fact it is such a real effect that must be taken into account by using control groups that believe they are receiving treatment during testing.

I'm not sure if placebo effect is the right term - more along the lines of confirmation bias - where spending more must be better, because of the bigger numbers on the box, and people tend to want to believe they made the right choice, however the numbers fall - people don't want to be wrong, or considered by others that they made an incorrect choice.

We see this here - replace 3 dB antenna's with 5 dB antennas, or turn up the power, folks think and swear that it worked better, and they will firmly assert that it does - but when looking at the objective numbers, usually there is zero improvement.

Or putting two 5GHz radios inside a single AP, which doesn't make much sense from an engineering perspective, but with the terms "smart connect" and big numbers (and an equally high price tag), people will swear up and down that it's better - why?

Confirmation Bias - people don't want to be wrong... and Marketeer's do their very best to encourage it.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Getting the router higher up is always a good thing - even if it's a small wooden shelf - I recall seeing performance issues a long time back with a wireless AP, come to find it was sitting on top of a metal filing cabinet

The metal was affecting the RF ground plane on the near field - as soon as we moved it to a different location, things sorted themselves out... if anything, put a couple of books underneath the router, and that kind of solves the near field problems.

On the Asus routers that are more vertically oriented - it's probably a non-issue, but something like an RT-AC5300, one should keep the areas around the antennas clear...

Just sharing...

Good points. I agree. If possible it's best to keep the antennas above the metal rails or other metal objects that are near them or it could negatively impact performance. I had that same issue in the past when my 68P was lower on a desk side shelf with a metal barrier on one side of it.

 

[SoCalReviews]

We see this here - replace 3 dB antenna's with 5 dB antennas, or turn up the power, folks think and swear that it worked better, and they will firmly assert that it does - but when looking at the objective numbers, usually there is zero improvement...

Maybe there really was an improvement until you measured it... removed the uncertainty and collapsed the quantum probability wave function.

 

[anon2015]

Those are good points to be aware of but I believe the positives outweigh any potential negatives. Using a metal bracket is much preferred

Although I understand your thought process, I would challenge this conclusion. I have had nearly flawless wireless performance for 1.5 years. Then one day it became very finicky. Random drops, reduced distance, pages failing to load etc. The cause? One three ring binder had been placed on the desk within 6 inches of where the router sat. I moved the binder and the issues all went away. There isnt a lot of metal in a three ring binder, but man it made a difference in wireless performance.