Does anyone make a secure MoCA distribution system?

[John Poldoian]

I want to design a MoCA distribution network for a condominium building with one head-end at the fiber Internet source and 10 secure cpe locations. Actiontec and other brands appear to offer security when used in pairs, requiring 20 adapters in my application. That is messy and expensive as 11 adapters should be enough. One head end using moca 2.0 or 2.5 offers enough throughput. I'm concerned about security since all cpe's are on the same network. A different vlan at each cpe would solve it, but don't know a moca vendor who has implemented vlans or isolation tags. Is there another security method?

 

[Fyodor]

I have seen press releases for "MoCA Access" which is designed to address your particular situation. Not sure if there are any working products.

 

[sfx2000]

MOCA assumes that each end-point is within the same LAN...

If you're doing an MDU (Multiple Dwelling Unit), then talk to the carrier about security there.

 

[John Poldoian]

MOCA assumes that each end-point is within the same LAN...

If you're doing an MDU (Multiple Dwelling Unit), then talk to the carrier about security there.

Maybe I wasn't clear. My desire is to use MoCA as a substitute for Ethernet distribution to avoid new wiring costs. The carrier is not involved as they hand-off a signal via fiber or Ethernet and it's my responsibility to distribute it securely to 10 or more clients. MoCA equipment vendors should offer isolation since every end-point is within the same LAN.

 

[Samir]

Maybe I wasn't clear. My desire is to use MoCA as a substitute for Ethernet distribution to avoid new wiring costs. The carrier is not involved as they hand-off a signal via fiber or Ethernet and it's my responsibility to distribute it securely to 10 or more clients. MoCA equipment vendors should offer isolation since every end-point is within the same LAN.

So in traditional ethernet, if you wanted security between ports, you would have to use some sort of port isolation or other means like vlans. I think you should be able to accomplish the same thing with a flat Moca network with a router that does per ip/device isolation. Unless you have a block of static IPs to distribute, then isolation wouldn't even make sense.

Our old apartment complex was connected like this except via fibre. All the units were basically on the same lan, so if you did some sniffing, you could find other systems/routers that were connected to the network. But since all the IPs were public, you could have done this anyways so it didn't matter.

 

[System Error Message]

i'd love a mocha distribution system for my apartment
If the building is wired to fiber, and my internet access uses moca, i will be very mad if i were living in your building, this because we'd be restricted to cable speed packages that have slow uploads, bad for those that use the internet for their work. Just wire up the fiber optics all over, it may costs more but in the worse case scenario your building will retain its value much better. Those buildings that rely on phone cable or cable for internet, people would be wary of moving there because of how slow their internet access will be. Sure fiber optics are more expensive, but you'll get your moneys worth in the building maintenance and longevity value far better than using moca. To put it this way, if you use moca but every building around you uses fiber optics or better, it will severely effect the value of the place.

i'd like this, too bad my building will never wire it if it ever existed

Building management is very important in any managed accommodations, so go do your best. Sure budget is limited but when you upgrade to fiber optics, thats a whole other huge set of cost that you might as well have done it right the first time.

What you can use moca for is wiring up cable/satellite tv, not internet. My condo standards are high, any place that calls itself a condo but has less than 1000 sqft and no fiber optics is just a regular apartment to me. To want to wire a condo with moca for internet access, do you have no shame or standards?

 

[Samir]

But only fibre in a building isn't a total solution either as we discovered in our previous building that was originally built as condos. There is so much vendor lock-in that occurs when you only have fibre that you effectively cannot get better solutions delivered over other cabling such as coax. We literally were stuck at 25Mb Internet with fibre when I could see a building below us that had 100Mb cable Internet available.

After a year of problems, they fired their existing provider and moved to another one that was finally able to solve the 10% packet loss issue as well as improve speeds. But they were just finally catching up to what everyone around them had for the last 5 years.

Bottom line would be in new construction to run all the wire you can afford, and multiples of each because you never know what the future will hold.

 

[System Error Message]

But only fibre in a building isn't a total solution either as we discovered in our previous building that was originally built as condos. There is so much vendor lock-in that occurs when you only have fibre that you effectively cannot get better solutions delivered over other cabling such as coax. We literally were stuck at 25Mb Internet with fibre when I could see a building below us that had 100Mb cable Internet available.

After a year of problems, they fired their existing provider and moved to another one that was finally able to solve the 10% packet loss issue as well as improve speeds. But they were just finally catching up to what everyone around them had for the last 5 years.

Bottom line would be in new construction to run all the wire you can afford, and multiples of each because you never know what the future will hold.

thats why its better to use generic solutions like ethernet or normal fiber optics. Getting a media converter rather than modem is cheaper, and will give you 10Gb/s when it comes to consumers.

 

[Samir]

thats why its better to use generic solutions like ethernet or normal fiber optics. Getting a media converter rather than modem is cheaper, and will give you 10Gb/s when it comes to consumers.

Ethernet might have been a better choice except it is limited to only 1Gbps until 2.5/5Gbps becomes the norm. And the fibre installed is just 'normal'--the problem is in the games providers play when they know fibre is involved if they handle the distribution, which most any property will have do versus handle it in-house.

 

[sfx2000]

Maybe I wasn't clear. My desire is to use MoCA as a substitute for Ethernet distribution to avoid new wiring costs. The carrier is not involved as they hand-off a signal via fiber or Ethernet and it's my responsibility to distribute it securely to 10 or more clients. MoCA equipment vendors should offer isolation since every end-point is within the same LAN.

Maybe I wasn't clear - there are distribution systems that the Telco's can offer for situations like I mentioned - and that's the tech level.

those same systems can be linked to billing platforms - so one can bill per tenant, or the building as a whole...

Talk to the telco/broadband provider.

 

[System Error Message]

Ethernet might have been a better choice except it is limited to only 1Gbps until 2.5/5Gbps becomes the norm. And the fibre installed is just 'normal'--the problem is in the games providers play when they know fibre is involved if they handle the distribution, which most any property will have do versus handle it in-house.

You got it quite wrong, just read around in this thread.
Typically the ISP will terminate some form of fiber optics or link to your building/complex, they will bring their equipment with them and maybe a converter, then you just add it to your wiring and switch, but where i am many condos actually use the same wiring options as the ISP (not ISP that wire but same contractor), so the equipment used is the same (GPON and fiber optics in my case) with the switch and ports, so it'd be just like having that ISP at home.

 

[Samir]

You got it quite wrong, just read around in this thread.
Typically the ISP will terminate some form of fiber optics or link to your building/complex, they will bring their equipment with them and maybe a converter, then you just add it to your wiring and switch, but where i am many condos actually use the same wiring options as the ISP (not ISP that wire but same contractor), so the equipment used is the same (GPON and fiber optics in my case) with the switch and ports, so it'd be just like having that ISP at home.

Nope, that's exactly what our old place had, GPON and all--it was a nightmare for them--vendor lock-in and everything. If they would have ran coax too, we could have all had cable modems that were 10x as fast and reliable for Internet.

 

[System Error Message]

Nope, that's exactly what our old place had, GPON and all--it was a nightmare for them--vendor lock-in and everything. If they would have ran coax too, we could have all had cable modems that were 10x as fast and reliable for Internet.

Cable faster than GPON? Thats news for me. Currently my country's GPON ISPs all have a max of 100 Mb/s with an upgrade to 800Mb/s soon and one odd ISP of 500Mb/s max. Cant see cable getting around symmetrical speeds.

 

[Samir]

Cable faster than GPON? Thats news for me. Currently my country's GPON ISPs all have a max of 100 Mb/s with an upgrade to 800Mb/s soon and one odd ISP of 500Mb/s max. Cant see cable getting around symmetrical speeds.

Not technically faster, but just what the service providers will provide. Even when we left that building, the fastest they had available was 100/15 when cable providers had 300/15 available all around the building.

 

[sfx2000]

Typically the ISP will terminate some form of fiber optics or link to your building/complex, they will bring their equipment with them and maybe a converter, then you just add it to your wiring and switch, but where i am many condos actually use the same wiring options as the ISP (not ISP that wire but same contractor), so the equipment used is the same (GPON and fiber optics in my case) with the switch and ports, so it'd be just like having that ISP at home.

Exactly - many call it Fiber to the Premises, some still call it FTTH, and typically when ordered for a Multiple Dwelling Unit, they'll drop in the appropriate gear as needed.

The connection to the building - with Fiber, it's generally either PON or, these days GPON to the Terminal Unit for distribution to the housing units.

Good read here -- http://www.broadbandproperties.com/2006issues/aug06issues/augADC.pdf

Anyways - like I mentioned earlier - talk to the Telco/Broadband Provider - they'll have the knowledge, and equipment needed to finish the deployment.