Each Firefox download has a unique identifier

[anotherengineer]

I thought Librewolf was great, but again it would not play nicely with password managers for me and I couldn't be bothered to work out why. I figured that millions of people use firefox (unmodded) anyway, it's usp is supposed to be privacy and with additional telemetry changes, firewall and advert blockers etc it's pretty safe as any other browser to use.

I agree with not doing all the settings on all of your families computers as well, I set up the basics when I install and leave them to it, as we know to many privacy settings can screw up websites and who are they gonna call to fix it. I am considering going from firefox to chrome however for my parents as I think it may be easier for them to use.

No doubt. I don’t know if I’d ever flip over to googled chrome, but edge is basically that. My kids sometimes have to use edge for online school work since it seems google tailored google docs for chrome web engine?? I remember doing those html5 tests comparing browser compatibility. Be nice to see a comprehensive browser review/comparison by someone with good knowledge in the area. It seems to be if it works it’s “good enough “ for most people.

 

[RMerlin]

t seems to be if it works it’s “good enough “ for most people.

Interoperability is less of an issue today, in large part because the number of separate HTML engines has been reduced to a handful over the years, with three of the biggest browsers being originally based on the same Webkit engine (Chrome/Edge/Safari). Safari might be slightly different since Apple has forked Webkit. The only completely different alternative with any significant market share is Firefox and its derivative.

People should go with the browser that best matches their personal preferences. Very few sites will require a specific browser to work properly.

 

[Yota]

it's pretty safe as any other browser to use

Safe? Nope.

Privacy != Security

The most privacy people get when they switch from Google Chrome to Firefox, but for privacy paranoia I recommend LibreWolf or Tor. Actually when you use Tor or LibreWolf, they are very insecure because their security updates lag behind Firefox, they have to wait for upstream to patch bugs and release a new version before updating, which usually takes days. and Firefox is not more secure than Chrome, because of the backward design, people were complaining when Google Chrome came up and started eating RAM, but it's a huge improvement, it makes every tab in In its own sandbox, Firefox didn't introduce a similar design until a few years later in its Quantum release, but to this day still lags behind Google Chrome in terms of security.

So, go for Firefox for privacy, or the more extreme LibreWolf or Tor.

For security, choose a Chromium-based browser.

Recommend reading this article: Firefox and Chromium

Very few sites will require a specific browser to work properly.

When people pursue extreme privacy, many websites do not welcome the Tor browser, because all Tor exit nodes are already marked as anonymous, and those who use it will face constant CAPTCHA, and because many features that interact with websites are disabled by default, such as JavaScript, WebRTC, WebAssembly.

 

[anotherengineer]

Safe? Nope.

Privacy != Security

The most privacy people get when they switch from Google Chrome to Firefox, but for privacy paranoia I recommend LibreWolf or Tor. Actually when you use Tor or LibreWolf, they are very insecure because their security updates lag behind Firefox, they have to wait for upstream to patch bugs and release a new version before updating, which usually takes days. and Firefox is not more secure than Chrome, because of the backward design, people were complaining when Google Chrome came up and started eating RAM, but it's a huge improvement, it makes every tab in In its own sandbox, Firefox didn't introduce a similar design until a few years later in its Quantum release, but to this day still lags behind Google Chrome in terms of security.

So, go for Firefox for privacy, or the more extreme LibreWolf or Tor.

For security, choose a Chromium-based browser.

Recommend reading this article: Firefox and Chromium




When people pursue extreme privacy, many websites do not welcome the Tor browser, because all Tor exit nodes are already marked as anonymous, and those who use it will face constant CAPTCHA, and because many features that interact with websites are disabled by default, such as JavaScript, WebRTC, WebAssembly.

Exactly.

It would be nice if there was a list of browsers, with 'Security' and 'privacy' ratings in a table, with 1 = none to 10 = excellent and a disclaimer saying that 'privacy' rating over 7 may possibly break everything anyway, that's regularly updated. And take your pick of which one you want more.

I am actually kind of surprised this is not standard practice like virus scanners with independent testing companies??

 

[L&LD]

I am actually kind of surprised this is not standard practice like virus scanners with independent testing companies??

That's funny. You don't really believe in such things?

 

[anotherengineer]

That's funny. You don't really believe in such things?

nope, but it would be nice to believe though lol

 

[itpp20]

People should go with the browser that best matches their personal preferences. Very few sites will require a specific browser to work properly.

Try o365 with firefox... not much works or behaves at it should.

 

[RMerlin]

Try o365 with firefox... not much works or behaves at it should.

If something as prevalent as O365 truly has issues with Firefox, then someone needs to take a close look at it...

Some say this is the risk of having a single engine (Webkit) becoming so dominant. It may lead web developers to ignore proper QA on anything else.

 

[XIII]

A new option on macOS?

Meet DuckDuckGo for Mac: A Private, Fast, Secure Browser

DuckDuckGo for Mac gives you privacy by default. With one download, you get nearly a dozen protections, including built-in private search.

spreadprivacy.com

 

[cptnoblivious]

I have a vision of folks going to great extent to install a 'privacy based browser' to then go on facebook an share their personal info to the world.

Seriously though, it's a spectrum. And there are always going to be tradeoffs, especially when there are 2 sides to the communication, like email with family who use gmail / outlook etc.

Mostly, privacy is an illusion. We worry about our browsers, but carry our phones with GPS enabled. And facebook installed. And app xyz, which all know where we are. And walk into stores with our Wifi enabled so they can (if they want) track and register your MAC address. Or your BT.

In the end, it's a constant arms race between the people that want to track you and have huge budgets, and folks who'd prefer not to be tracked but have to rely on others to help them do so.

You can make marginal improvements, but in a connected world, you leave traces. That's the way it works.

Good reading is what the journalists went through who got Snowden's files. They used air-gapped, mall purchased computers that they paid for in cash.

Having said that, I do:
- Pick a browser, then try to remove all the settings that I find in appropriate
- Run uBlock and a few other extensions (of course, more extensions = more accurate fingerprinting, so it's a tradeoff)
- Use Signal (or Session / Element)
- Run duckduckgo's browser on my phone with the new tracking-blocker (very interesting results, did you know that your outlook app reports to facebook?)
- Use protonmail / tutanota / my own domain on zoho infrastructure, based on what I need
- Split my email addresses depending on the usecase, after all, why make it easy for sites to compile your profile
- VPN out for many activities (which just shifts the group I need to trust, from my ISP to my VPN provider)
- Use FreeTube instead of youtube (at times, frankly at some point it just becomes a hassle)
- I don't have "smart" lights, or TV, or Alexa or google nest ... etc etc (substitute the word 'surveillance' for any 'smart' device and you're probably right on the money)
- block roku etc via pihole / adblock
- ...

But I have no illusions, and at best I'm making marginal differences. I've been in IT (and at times Security IT) for 20+ years.
There's only so far you can go before you swear off all technology, move into the mountains and become a hermit.

Ultimately, the only thing that will make a difference long are better, audited and enforceable regulations on what companies can track, store and use to ID and target you.

Yikes that got way too long.

 

[torstein]

Mostly, privacy is an illusion. We worry about our browsers, but carry our phones with GPS enabled. And facebook installed. And app xyz, which all know where we are. And walk into stores with our Wifi enabled so they can (if they want) track and register your MAC address. Or your BT.

In the end, it's a constant arms race between the people that want to track you and have huge budgets, and folks who'd prefer not to be tracked but have to rely on others to help them do so.

But I have no illusions, and at best I'm making marginal differences. I've been in IT (and at times Security IT) for 20+ years.
There's only so far you can go before you swear off all technology, move into the mountains and become a hermi

I believe the idea is to confuse the trackers with incomplete data, and not completely be invisible and off-the-grid, no?

 

[torstein]

Interoperability is less of an issue today, in large part because the number of separate HTML engines has been reduced to a handful over the years, with three of the biggest browsers being originally based on the same Webkit engine (Chrome/Edge/Safari). Safari might be slightly different since Apple has forked Webkit. The only completely different alternative with any significant market share is Firefox and its derivative.

People should go with the browser that best matches their personal preferences. Very few sites will require a specific browser to work properly.

Maybe I'm misreading you comment, but Apple didn't fork Webkit, they forked KHTML and created Webkit in 2005, which Google (Chromium project) forked into Blink back in 2013. Webkit and Blink are quite different today, and probably can be considered two different egines.

 

[RMerlin]

Maybe I'm misreading you comment, but Apple didn't fork Webkit, they forked KHTML and created Webkit in 2005, which Google (Chromium project) forked into Blink back in 2013.

My memory could be wrong. I did remember that they both (Google and Apple) started from a same codebase, and they split at one point, but I could have misremembered the details. It certainly doesn't help that all of these browser report utter garbage in their user-agent nowadays...

 

[torstein]

My memory could be wrong. I did remember that they both (Google and Apple) started from a same codebase, and they split at one point, but I could have misremembered the details. It certainly doesn't help that all of these browser report utter garbage in their user-agent nowadays...

Story time

In 1998 Apple wanted to cease being dependent on Netscape and Internet Explorer. So for their big transition from OS 9 to OS X they decided to create their own browser. They forked KHTML and KJS javascript engine from KDE the same year, created the Webkit-project which developed the Webkit 1 engine. This engine was incorporated into Safari 1.0 and released in 2003. In 2005 Apple open sourced the Webkit-engine. In 2009 Google decided they wanted to speed up the pace of web technologies and stimulate the use of these for a richer more featureful web, so they created the Chromium-project, made the Chromium browser based on Apple's open sourced Webkit, and added Googles own flavors to a more stable and less bleeding edge version of it, called Google Chrome.

Google's Chromium guys cooperated with Apple's Webkit guys on Webkit 1 and contributed new features, enhancements, bug fixes and security patches for about four years until 2013, when Google and Apple split ways due to design-disagreements on a to-be-released feature where Webkit would handle tabs as separate processes.

Google's Chromium guys decided they already knew and understood Webkit well, so they forked it and released it as Blink in 2013, which continues to be Chromium / Chrome's engine to this day. Apple's Webkit guys released Webkit 2 shortly thereafter in 2014, and is still the web-engine on all Apple's platforms. The bifurcation has made the engines completely different from each other in the last 8 years, but they do to share a common ancestry and foundation on which they collaborated for a few fruitful years. Ahh, those were the days, when everyone just got along.

 

[sbsnb]

A new option on macOS?

Meet DuckDuckGo for Mac: A Private, Fast, Secure Browser

DuckDuckGo for Mac gives you privacy by default. With one download, you get nearly a dozen protections, including built-in private search.

spreadprivacy.com

DuckDuckGo is just as bad as Google in that they manually manipulate search results to downrank sites they don't approve of and some sites are blacklisted altogether.

They also fingerprint user's browsers.

DDG's app sends the name of every domain visited to DDG's servers

DDG sends user's data to Microsoft and Bing when clicking on ads

 

[XIII]

DuckDuckGo is just as bad as Google in that they manually manipulate search results to downrank sites they don't approve of and some sites are blacklisted altogether.

They also fingerprint user's browsers.

DDG's app sends the name of every domain visited to DDG's servers

DDG sends user's data to Microsoft and Bing when clicking on ads

In the thread in the first link a DDG employees denies the fingerprinting, pointing at their privacy policy, which claims that they do not collect or share personal information.

I’m not in a position to verify that, but/so thank you for raising/increasing awareness.

 

[sbsnb]

Duckduckgo has started removing sites from their search results, even sites that aren't illegal.

DuckDuckGo 'Removes' Pirate Sites and YouTube-DL from Its Search Results (Updated) * TorrentFreak

Search engine DuckDuckGo has completely removed all search results for popular pirate sites including The Pirate Bay, 1337x, and Fmovies.

torrentfreak.com

 

[XIII]

Duckduckgo has started removing sites from their search results

Yes, I read a similar article.

What would be a good alternative (privacy focused) search engine?

 

[Yota]

Yes, I read a similar article.

What would be a good alternative (privacy focused) search engine?

https://www.startpage.com/

Unlike DDG, SP's search results come from Google, which means that the search results are more accurate than Bing (for example, you may have recently discovered that you can't search SNB forums on DDG/Bing/Yahoo because of some bugs from Microsoft), and they do not share private information with Google.

 

[thiggins]

https://www.startpage.com/... you may have recently discovered that you can't search SNB forums on DDG/Bing/Yahoo because of some bugs from Microsoft), and they do not share private information with Google.

What bugs from Microsoft? So far, I've been unsuccessful at getting a response from Bing regarding SNBForums' removal.