External antennas on the likes of AC86U, is that the magic for range?

[snovvman]

I am using several AC86Us as a mesh system. Several times tried to replace them with the likes of TP-Link, Linksys, and other prettier devices that support 6 or 6E. Having placed the newer devices in the same locations, they were all inferior when it comes to range at the fringe areas. Is it the external antennas on the Asus devices, like 86U, 88U, etc. that gives them the range advantage? The "decor" style APs have built in antennas and they are shorter, so is that why they are generally inferior when it comes to reach?

Thanks.

 

[OzarkEdge]

I am using several AC86Us as a mesh system. Several times tried to replace them with the likes of TP-Link, Linksys, and other prettier devices that support 6 or 6E. Having placed the newer devices in the same locations, they were all inferior when it comes to range at the fringe areas. Is it the external antennas on the Asus devices, like 86U, 88U, etc. that gives them the range advantage? The "decor" style APs have built in antennas and they are shorter, so is that why they are generally inferior when it comes to reach?

Thanks.

External antennas can't hurt. The AC86U was a top broadcaster, and new AX models are equally good or a bit better. I started AiMesh in 2018 with AC68Us and immediately replaced them with AC86Us to make a 77' wireless backhaul from far side of brick house to detached brick garage.

I prefer the vertical formfactor... currently the AX86U Pro.

I had three AC86Us burn out... I do not trust them on my network anymore.

OE

 

[Tech9]

built in antennas and they are shorter

The actual antenna inside the plastic of external antennas is about 5cm long dipole. The rest is non-functional design element, no matter how long. Any 6GHz router or "mesh" will have shorter range due to higher frequency band with lower wall penetration. I've read statements how AX improves the range over AC - not true especially for 160MHz wide channel. The faster you go (higher modulation scheme, wider channel or both) the shorter the range. RT-AC86U was using BCM4366E and this chip was excellent in all products Asus or other manufacturer. Sometimes the radio module plus the end amplifiers choice plus the drivers support from Broadcom hit the sweet spot. If your RT-AC86U routers work well and don't show any signs of trouble - keep using them. This model has higher than average failure rate, but excellent when it works.

The AC86U was a top broadcaster, and new AX models are equally good or a bit better.

Indeed.

 

[L&LD]

It's not just the antennae that make up the RF chain that makes Asus routers superior (specifically RT and GT model lines). It is attention to all the parts in those links. Including the SoC, the radio modules/CPUs, any amplifiers used, and many other peripheral factors, such as optimized drivers, SDKs, and other factors that other manufacturers don't seem to consider (from experience).

While the RT-AC86Us were the pinnacle of AC-class WiFi routers, they have long been superseded by AX-class equipment for a long time now.

Note that a single, entry-level RT-AX68U (sadly, EOL today), is drastically superior to the old king (actually 2x RT-AC86U) in the link below.

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

Doubling the throughput while having the same or better range is what makes the upgrade to an AX-class router today more than worthwhile, particularly if you have the ISP speeds to take advantage of them (the current bang for the buck model today is the RT-AX88U Pro). And having a cooler running and more responsive router/network too.

 

[coxhaus]

Multi-APs will always beat a single one.

 

[Crimliar]

Multi-APs will always beat a single one.

But having/needing multiple APs is more costly and complex. You also don't want to get into the situation that I see too often in the BT forums where you have a regular British house with the router and six (or more) APs/Mesh nodes, and the customers are struggling with truly abysmal performance thanks to too much WiFi!
*One size don't fit all!

 

[coxhaus]

But having/needing multiple APs is more costly and complex. You also don't want to get into the situation that I see too often in the BT forums where you have a regular British house with the router and six (or more) APs/Mesh nodes, and the customers are struggling with truly abysmal performance thanks to too much WiFi!
*One size don't fit all!

Buying multiple APs will be cheaper than buying multiple routers.

 

[L&LD]

@coxhaus, not always. Many times removing all the routers/APs from a home/business and beginning at the start (i.e. a single router, and finding the optimal location/orientation of both the unit and the antennae, along with the optimum Control Channels), often yields superior results with a lower cost than the system I replaced it with (today, typically with a single RT-AX88U Pro).

 

[coxhaus]

@coxhaus, not always. Many times removing all the routers/APs from a home/business and beginning at the start (i.e. a single router, and finding the optimal location/orientation of both the unit and the antennae, along with the optimum Control Channels), often yields superior results with a lower cost than the system I replaced it with (today, typically with a single RT-AX88U Pro).

Yes, you say that now but then you recommend high dollar routers.

 

[L&LD]

The RT-AX88U Pro is a high-dollar router?

You may be confusing me with someone else.

 

[coxhaus]

The RT-AX88U Pro is a high-dollar router?

You may be confusing me with someone else.

It shows as a much higher cost using google looking at Amazon than my last Cisco 150ax AP I bought, like more than twice the price.

And it makes less sense with the more expensive ASUS routers. Costs have gone crazy on little routers.
I would not buy them. I don't see other people justify it on consumer gear. I guess I am old.

 

[OzarkEdge]

I'm all for networking getting simpler... a plug and play appliance... what gear is that?

OE

 

[Tech9]

what gear is that?

Google Nest. They know already what you need.

 

[L&LD]

It shows as a much higher cost using google looking at Amazon than my last Cisco 150ax AP I bought, like more than twice the price.

And it makes less sense with the more expensive ASUS routers. Costs have gone crazy on little routers.
I would not buy them. I don't see other people justify it on consumer gear. I guess I am old.

You still need a router for your AP.

And, if you missed the point in my original post above, only a single RT-AX88U Pro is all that is usually needed. (Vs. the ISP router, and multiple 'pods' for whole home coverage that didn't work).

 

[OzarkEdge]

Google Nest. They know already what you need.

That might serve a year or two before they shut it down and move on to their next thing.

OE

 

[snovvman]

It's not just the antennae that make up the RF chain that makes Asus routers superior (specifically RT and GT model lines). It is attention to all the parts in those links. Including the SoC, the radio modules/CPUs, any amplifiers used, and many other peripheral factors, such as optimized drivers, SDKs, and other factors that other manufacturers don't seem to consider (from experience).

While the RT-AC86Us were the pinnacle of AC-class WiFi routers, they have long been superseded by AX-class equipment for a long time now.

Note that a single, entry-level RT-AX68U (sadly, EOL today), is drastically superior to the old king (actually 2x RT-AC86U) in the link below.

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

Doubling the throughput while having the same or better range is what makes the upgrade to an AX-class router today more than worthwhile, particularly if you have the ISP speeds to take advantage of them (the current bang for the buck model today is the RT-AX88U Pro). And having a cooler running and more responsive router/network too.

Thanks for the data. It is very helpful. I was surprised to see the difference between the AC86 and AX86 at range.

 

[snovvman]

The actual antenna inside the plastic of external antennas is about 5cm long dipole. The rest is non-functional design element, no matter how long.

Are you saying that there is only 5cm of actual antenna inside those three externals on an AC86 or AX86?

 

[snovvman]

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

In your post linked above, in the paragraph, "Executive summary: As expected, the newer RT-AX68U's excelled at throughput vs. the older design RT-AC86U's. Actually, surprisingly so. While the RT-AC86U could hit 150-210 Mbps download to the lowest level from the AiMesh node a floor and many walls above. The RT-AX86U could hit 350-430Mbps with a single router (before the AiMesh node was added) to this same device (current laptop, plugged into AC power) from two floors above and a few extra walls in between too." I presume you meant RT-AX68U that was highlighted in red?

 

[coxhaus]

You still need a router for your AP.

And, if you missed the point in my original post above, only a single RT-AX88U Pro is all that is usually needed. (Vs. the ISP router, and multiple 'pods' for whole home coverage that didn't work).

Yea but Pfsense is free.

With Pfsense and 1 AP you save a lot of money vs RT-AX88 if you only need 1. If you need 2 APs then you still save money. And 2 AP will have better coverage.

 

[L&LD]

pfSense may be free. The hardware to run it on isn't.

And in my experience (granted, a few years ago now) pfSense is not the panacea that everyone makes it out to be.