Feature Request - Neighbourhood Access with Bandwidth Limitation

[Kwan]

I'd really like to share Wifi with my neighbours, but I'd like to do so with some limitations. I'd like to see:

1) some standard (think coffee shop) agreement tick box agreement you're forced to agree to;;
2) ability to limit QOS for Neighbours;
3) ability to limit total monthly GB Bandwidth (for those of us not on unlimited plans);
4) ability to set time limits per use (ie. you could cut someone off after an hour of connection.

If enough people shared bandwidth, it could help build more anonymity into the web, and I frankly think sharing with my neighbourhood would be great!

 

[NightOwl326]

I'd really like to share Wifi with my neighbours, but I'd like to do so with some limitations. I'd like to see:

1) some standard (think coffee shop) agreement tick box agreement you're forced to agree to;;
2) ability to limit QOS for Neighbours;
3) ability to limit total monthly GB Bandwidth (for those of us not on unlimited plans);
4) ability to set time limits per use (ie. you could cut someone off after an hour of connection.

If enough people shared bandwidth, it could help build more anonymity into the web, and I frankly think sharing with my neighbourhood would be great!

So how does your ISP feel about this internet for all, billing for one scheme?

 

[Kwan]

So how does your ISP feel about this internet for all, billing for one scheme?

I don't really care - and I doubt they do either I have 300GB of bandwidth and if I go over, then I pay. Maybe they will like it because I'll upgrade to unlimited or a terrabyte?

There are other upgrades too, so for instance I can pay for "off hours unlimited" (using ebox and I think Telsavvy for the Canadians reading). My ISP can only make more $, and I can guarantee that even in an unlimited package the bandwidth is priced in (you can only download so much in 24 hours).

Now ... to reverse the question - how does your ISP feel about you using a wireless router, where more than a single person can have access?

Seriously, I don't think there is any issue, and nothing in my T&Cs. The real issue is whether I can put limitations around this (ie. filtering, bandwidth, QOS, time of service), so that I'm not exposed.

 

[NightOwl326]

I don't really care - and I doubt they do either I have 300GB of bandwidth and if I go over, then I pay. Maybe they will like it because I'll upgrade to unlimited or a terrabyte?

I can't imagine trusting just anybody not to be viewing kiddy porn or downloading copywriten protected torrents with my internet connection. So what's the upside for you taking these risks? Pats on the backs and attaboys?

 

[Kwan]

I can't imagine trusting just anybody not to be viewing kiddy porn or downloading copywriten protected torrents with my internet connection. So what's the upside for you taking these risks? Pats on the backs and attaboys?

Well, that is a good question. The click through T&C I requested (and filtering I forgot to request) deal with the issues. I am not remotely concerned about copyright - there is no secondary infringement unless I am going out there and saying - hey ... use this wifi for copyright violation. No, I'm not doing that, and in fact want to limit bandwidth. So, what risks? Tim Hortons, Starbucks, McDonalds, public libraries ... they all do it, and I don't see that they have an issue?

What is in it for me? There is clearly a need - libraries lend out wifi even. Also, I think it contributes to anonymous use and I believe in internet privacy. Libraries recognize the need with lending of Wifi, so there is a need.

Why is there a problem with people providing free wifi hotspots?

 

[ColinTaylor]

I'm pretty sure Merlin will tell you that this is not within the scope of this project:

The primary goals of this project are to fix bugs, add a few basic features and tweaks to the original firmware. This firmware will try to remain as close as possible to the original firmware. If you are looking for a slew of advanced features, then this project is not for you. Look at TomatoUSB or DD-WRT, two excellent products that might suit your needs better.

Especially as you originally asked for this two years ago and nothing has happened since then.

I think DD-WRT might have what you want (https://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Captive_Portal). Have a look at that.

 

[NightOwl326]

Well, that is a good question. The click through T&C I requested (and filtering I forgot to request) deal with the issues. I am not remotely concerned about copyright - there is no secondary infringement unless I am going out there and saying - hey ... use this wifi for copyright violation. No, I'm not doing that, and in fact want to limit bandwidth. So, what risks? Tim Hortons, Starbucks, McDonalds, public libraries ... they all do it, and I don't see that they have an issue?

What is in it for me? There is clearly a need - libraries lend out wifi even. Also, I think it contributes to anonymous use and I believe in internet privacy. Libraries recognize the need with lending of Wifi, so there is a need.

Why is there a problem with people providing free wifi hotspots?

Because I'm sure there is a fee differential for what a business is charged monthly for providing a hotspot and what an individual pays for personal use.

 

[Nullity]

I can't imagine trusting just anybody not to be viewing kiddy porn or downloading copywriten protected torrents with my internet connection. So what's the upside for you taking these risks? Pats on the backs and attaboys?

Anecdotally, I served (for ~24 hours) as a Tor Exit node and receieved no complaints from my ISP.

Also, if you are a "service provider", the law differs.

 

[NightOwl326]

Anecdotally, I served (for ~24 hours) as a Tor Exit node and receieved no complaints from my ISP.

Also, if you are a "service provider", the law differs.

Funny thing a few years back my son was living in a faturnity house and the ISP billing was in his name and provided wifi for all tenants in the house. Even though warned, one tenant decided to download copywriten material against the rules set by my son in regards to using the service in his name for such purposes. Sure enough letters started coming from the isp and my son accumulated lawyer bills to clean it all up. Keep telling yourself it will never happen to you and your completely safe from legal liability. How much do you want to guess the offending tenant offered to pay for my son's lawyer fees? Most likely as much as your neighbors would! Zero, zilch, none, nada.

 

[Kwan]

I'm pretty sure Merlin will tell you that this is not within the scope of this project:Especially as you originally asked for this two years ago and nothing has happened since then.

I think DD-WRT might have what you want (https://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Captive_Portal). Have a look at that.

 

[Kwan]

Ha! Hadn't remembered requesting that previously. Had only visited the forum because I had flashed a newish router as was putting vpn in place, and wanted to donate to merlin.... probably what I did 2 years ago too.

Might be outside scope, or maybe not someday, but at least I only ask every two years it seems.

 

[Kwan]

Funny thing a few years back my son was living in a faturnity house and the ISP billing was in his name and provided wifi for all tenants in the house. Even though warned, one tenant decided to download copywriten material against the rules set by my son in regards to using the service in his name for such purposes. Sure enough letters started coming from the isp and my son accumulated lawyer bills to clean it all up. Keep telling yourself it will never happen to you and your completely safe from legal liability. How much do you want to guess the offending tenant offered to pay for my son's lawyer fees? Most likely as much as your neighbors would! Zero, zilch, none, nada.

 

[Nullity]

Funny thing a few years back my son was living in a faturnity house and the ISP billing was in his name and provided wifi for all tenants in the house. Even though warned, one tenant decided to download copywriten material against the rules set by my son in regards to using the service in his name for such purposes. Sure enough letters started coming from the isp and my son occured lawyer bills to clean it all up. Keep telling yourself it will never happen to you and your completely safe from legal liability.

Rarely has anyone been legally attacked for downloading. Cite sources, please.

Just like any cost/benefit analysis would determine... halting users is a no-win game. Stop the source.

 

[Kwan]

Im working on my LLM in IP and I don't mind responding to legal letters. Others might, but if you have reasonable T&C not to mention, limiting bandwidth (this is not legal advice however, and I am not your lawyer), I can't see this being an issue in Canada, the US or UK, unless you set up with a view to enabling infringment.

Ohhh.... and if you know someone who is using for infringing purposes, cut them off. You do need to take reasonable steps if notified.

 

[Kwan]

Anecdotally, I served (for ~24 hours) as a Tor Exit node and receieved no complaints from my ISP.

Also, if you are a "service provider", the law differs.

Correct, although how it differs is jurisdiction dependant.

 

[ColinTaylor]

Rarely has anyone been legally attacked for downloading. Cite sources, please.

Just like any cost/benefit analysis would determine... halting users is a no-win game. Stop the source.

This is common practice nowadays in Europe. Not from ISP's but from the owners of copyrighted material, particularly porn movies.

There are a few notorious legal firms that monitor torrent activity and collect the IP addresses of those downloading their "movies". They then get a court order to force the ISP's to reveal the names and addresses of the account holders. They then send out letters demanding money or threatening court action.

 

[NightOwl326]

Rarely has anyone been legally attacked for downloading. Cite sources, please.

Just like any cost/benefit analysis would determine... halting users is a no-win game. Stop the source.

What would be the cost/benefit of providing open wifi for all your neighbors and assumimg risk whatsoever? What's the personal benefit.

 

[Kwan]

Happens in the US too, has been attempted in Canada (movie Hurt Locker"?), but don't know where that ended up beyond supoena to get user names associated with IP.

I can't imagine they would be successful where you are providing bandwidth to neighbours. They would need to show it was you, not a neighbour. They would have a different case if you encouraged this behaviour though, or did not take appropriate/reasonable steps when notified.

 

[Kwan]

What would be the cost/benefit of providing open wifi for all your neighbors and assumimg risk whatsoever? What's the personal benefit.

I don't believe I have any risk. I believe that if this were widely dispersed the perceived risk would drop dramaticaly. Courts, copyright holders and police would stand down far faster if it were widely available and used by private individuals like you or me for the public good.

As stated above I support net anonymity, and like the thought of it being widely available.

To give you an anslogy, what is in it for us to donate to Merlin? Something better for everyone. The same applies to neighbourhood wifi.

 

[L&LD]

I don't believe I have any risk. I believe that if this were widely dispersed the perceived risk would drop dramaticaly. Courts, copyright holders and police would stand down far faster if it were widely available and used by private individuals like you or me for the public good.

As stated above I support net anonymity, and like the thought of it being widely available.

To give you an anslogy, what is in it for us to donate to Merlin? Something better for everyone. The same applies to neighbourhood wifi.

The difference to providing free neighborhood WiFi is that what everyone else is doing is seen as what you're doing. Not the same thing.

Net anonymity is an imaginary animal. But it does roll nicely off the tongue.