Floorplan & upgrade advice

[Herman Slotenmaker]

A year or so ago, I got a GT-AX6000 as my main router and demoted my ac-86U as an Aimesh node. My AC-68U has been in disuse since.
Very happy so far. The GT-AX6000 seems a lot more stable as the ac86U as my main router.

Now I am experiencing 2 issues.
1. Kids room 1 upstairs could do with better wifi signal (red circle). Possible locations for new aimesh station (ethernet backhaul) are depicted in yellow.
2. The signal at the TV (chromecast) in the new garden house is not quite good enough for streaming TV (it more or less works, but when someone gets up and in the way, the signal is lost). I was expecting the AC-86U in the Office would reach this far, but apparently 1 stone wall, the wooden garden house structure and 15m are to be too far away. If I take the AC-86 U off the cupboard and put it on my desk, right in front of the window, it gets little better (but not enough).

So what to do?

-I could put my AC-68U back into use and put it in the garden house, as that is the least used location. It has to connect with real Aimesh this time as wired ethernet backhaul is not (yet) possible. Unless a new router could be screwed to the wall, which would be a killer feature in the garden house

Would this affect my overall system in stability and functionality? I don't really know if the functionality of the overall system is determined by the specs of the main router, or the least spec'ed router. The AC-68U does not get any new firmware and lacks several features...
Probably Asus-Wrt-Merlin will stop supporting the ac-68u at some point...would that mean my whole system would not support merlin anymore?

- And I probably need an additional Aimesh node for the kids room. But the recommended routers GT-AX-6000, RT-AX86 Pro, RT-AX86S and GT-AX11000 (!) all sell in the €215-230 range. Which is quite a lot of money for something that should only function as mere access point (for just 1-2 devices) on the outskirts of my network. The TUF Gaming AX3000 v2 for €100, RT-AX58U for €115 or maybe even an RT-AX57U for €80 are more reasonably priced for their use. But are not recommended and lack Merlin support (which is not absulutely necessary, but is normally an indicator for weaker support).
Is it advisable to put the new router in the lower right corner of the kids room to avoid interference? Or is thit not an issue?

- or I could try to buy a second-hand AC-86U (for about €60??), but that does not seem to be the best investment.

- or would an Asus RP-AX58 (€85) Repeater be worth considering? Apparently the rp-ax58 will act as an aimesh node...but seems a bit expensive compared to a 'real' router...

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

HaMPeL

 

[L&LD]

Don't 'invest' in repeaters (a waste of money), particularly AX58 class models are noticeably worse choices.

In my experience, mixing AX class routers (which the GT-AX6000 is an excellent example of), with AC class routers brings down the level of performance of the whole network. Not recommended for over a year or more today.

'Could use better WiFi signal' isn't too helpful. What performance increase do you want to see? Where is it now?

Use the RT-AC68U in Media Bridge mode in the garden structure, and wire the TV directly instead.

See what performance increase you may expect by replacing the AC class router in the link below. Note that the RT-AX68U in the link below is an entry-class AX model and is not suitable for ISP speeds above ~600Mbps. Also, note that a Single RT-AX68U model greatly surpassed the throughput of 2x RT-AC86Us.

[ 386.4 alpha Build(s) ] Testing available build(s)

There are some odd regressions being discussed on the dnsmasq-discuss list from the PiHole guy (Dominik). https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015598.html https://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2021q3/015596.html I see Merlin is testing 2.86 out...

www.snbforums.com

In your situation, I would test:

• Adjust the location of the main router and/or antennae positions and/or Control Channel used to see which combination gives the best results in the Kids 1 room.
• (Or rearrange the furniture in that room so that the far corner isn't used for WiFi).
• Use the RT-AC68U in Media Bridge mode for the garden structure.
• Or, use the RT-AC68U in the office and the RT-AC86U in the garden structure (test both as an AiMesh node or Media Bridge mode).

Do not use routers inside cupboards. Move the main router to the other side of the wall where it is presently located. Move the main router as far away from the modem as possible (the 'modem' has no WiFi radios, correct? And if it does, are they turned off?). Ideally, the main router would be moved to a more central location of the home too (i.e. the small central room to the right of where it is shown now).

 

[Herman Slotenmaker]

thank you for your quick and comprehensive reply.

changing the location of the main router is something I hadn't thought of. It sits on a shelf, above the coat rack, behind a sliding door, together with my NASses, the Modem, a few switches, and a lot of cables, which all end there....moving the router would mean putting in an extra switch and a single cable from that switch to its new position. The "small room" in the middle of the house is the toilet, the other room the bathroom, so placing the router there is not an option

I could probably move it upstairs to the location where i already drew a yellow router...if that does not hurt my wifi performance in the living room too much, i think the kid's room should be fine, for just the cost of a switch..
The red zone is experiencing connection losses, very low throughput etc. (which I see reflected in the 4G bill) Unfortunately that is where the bed and desk are.


Media bridge isn't helping, because the chromecast does not have ethernet. And when the kids are hanging out in the garden, they probably want fast wifi as well..
But I could just put the AC-68U in aimesh mode, or not?

I am not quite sure what you mean with the part about replacing the ac-86U router. So far the combo is working fine form me, although the range in the garden could be a bit better. I understod that the range of the AC-86U was quite good and even a bit better than the GT-AX6000U?

But the AX-68U costs about the same as the before mentioned recommended AX-class routers (€200)...

But I just stumbled across the AX-53U for only €65. With wall-mounting holes Would this be a better solution for the garden structure than the AC-68U?
One AC-class device less and probably longer support?

It is still not clear to me what the impact of one such a lesser spec'ed device on the overall functionality of my aimesh network is (not smartconnect, Merlin and... on al devices? )

Kind Regards

 

[L&LD]

You're welcome. Did you read the link I offered?

The RT-AC86U was once the king of AC class routers, but it's been dethroned a long time ago.

I don't recommend any model below the RT-AX68U, they are not performant enough, no matter how little they cost.

 

[Herman Slotenmaker]

yes, of course I read the link. but I wasn't sure what your point was.

Clearly the AX68U is faster than the AC86U. But the AC86U was always known to be an "excellent range router"?
Are you saying upgrading the AC86 in the office to an AX68U might eliminate the need for an extra router in the garden structure?

Problem is, the AX68U seems to be selling out here. It sells for about €200, so I might as well get an AX86U pro or another GT-AX6000.
Great prices for great routers, but, like I said, a bit expensive for just some extra coverage in the garden...

 

[L&LD]

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying you may find in your environment too. It doesn't matter what it once was. Today, it's been surpassed even by the entry-level model I indicated above.

But first, what are your ISP speeds? If faster than ~500Mbps up/down, the GT-AX6000 or the newer (and most likely the longer supported model from today) RT-AX88U Pro, is what I would recommend. Yes, even for an AiMesh point.

I would not recommend the hardware-crippled RT-AX86s or RT-AX86U 'pro'. Buy the more balanced hardware I suggest instead.

I noticed that using an RT-AC86U to an AX class main router degraded performance many years ago today.

RT-AX88U or RT-AX86U as main Router using AiMesh 2.0 with Merlin firmware.

Looking for some thoughts regarding what appliance is preferred when deploying a two-node AiMesh configuration. I will test and compare, but am curious as to what others may have experienced. As of today, both Nodes would be running Merlin 386.1_beta. Diversion, Skynet & Unbound. Available...

www.snbforums.com

 

[vlord]

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying you may find in your environment too. It doesn't matter what it once was. Today, it's been surpassed even by the entry-level model I indicated above.

But first, what are your ISP speeds? If faster than ~500Mbps up/down, the GT-AX6000 or the newer (and most likely the longer supported model from today) RT-AX88U Pro, is what I would recommend. Yes, even for an AiMesh point.

I would not recommend the hardware-crippled RT-AX86s or RT-AX86U 'pro'. Buy the more balanced hardware I suggest instead.

I noticed that using an RT-AC86U to an AX class main router degraded performance many years ago today.

RT-AX88U or RT-AX86U as main Router using AiMesh 2.0 with Merlin firmware.

Looking for some thoughts regarding what appliance is preferred when deploying a two-node AiMesh configuration. I will test and compare, but am curious as to what others may have experienced. As of today, both Nodes would be running Merlin 386.1_beta. Diversion, Skynet & Unbound. Available...

www.snbforums.com

Is this true even if the backhaul is ethernet? Does it make a difference if the 86U is operating as a AP or AP on a different channel?

 

[L&LD]

I don't find AP mode useful, so I can't say 100%, but my gut feeling is that the network will slow down (as it did in my links above in AiMesh mode).

The AC to AX class jump (starting with the entry-level RT-AX68U) is substantial and very noticeable to me and (almost) all my customers (well, primarily; their kids...).

You'll need to test it in your environment and with your client devices. However, in many varied network setups, the results were always surprising and easily surpassed expectations.

The only use-case where the AC class clients don't slow down the whole network is in Media Bridge mode (for distant, wired-capable clients).

 

[glens]

Is this true even if the backhaul is ethernet? Does it make a difference if the 86U is operating as a AP or AP on a different channel?

Possibly somewhat impertinent since I haven't reviewed the thread, but I find AP mode eminently more useful than running in mesh mode. By doing so you can markedly improve multi-client wireless throughput within the network.

 

[vlord]

Possibly somewhat impertinent since I haven't reviewed the thread, but I find AP mode eminently more useful than running in mesh mode. By doing so you can markedly improve multi-client wireless throughput within the network.

Do you run it with the same channel or different channels or ’auto’?

 

[glens]

Combinations excluding "same" channel and same AP wherever possible to maximise wireless throughput.

[edit: make that "wireless /intranet/ throughput"

 

[glens]

Grandma's (now-) empty house next door was fixin' to have some of the boy's frat brothers occupy for the summer and we had the fiber re-lit. They'd left a (mis-matched) pair of Eeros which I swapped out with my (their) Linksys AC something (3x3). Sitting in the garage as I am now it was great to be connected at a high rate. But the performance sucked. So I dropped a wire and all was as good as it can be with a system having little control, especially requiring an online account as the baseline.

I'm thinkin' it was on about fall when we were going to blow out the flame on the fiber next door that I got a pair of XT8s for $350. Happy then and happy now about it.

Naturally, went "mesh" out the gate. Upgraded for ~$20 each the wifi cards in a couple laptops. Ran the 2.4 & 5-1 same SSID but different on the 5-2 (a very capable radio). Unhappy with inter-laptop (3) communication, segregating nodes / SSIDs as best could, switched over to AP mode instead. Magic. Do it. Load up the spectrum. With the sole caveat of loss of segregated guest network propagation (of which I have no need).