Frontier Fios MOCA setup

[stu7575]

Over the years I had switched back and forth between Verizon / Frontier Fios and Spectrum cable for my internet and cable TV programming. I have had a successful MOCA network with each of them. I have just switched again this time back to Frontier Fios but just for internet with plans to use a streaming service or OTA for TV. The Frontier tech came out on Saturday and replaced all of the original Verizon Fios equipment from the side of the house and in the garage (500/500 speed). He then went to the electrical cabinet in the master bedroom closet where all of the coax cables are waiting to be connected to something. These coax cables are labeled "bedroom 2", "Demarc", "living room" etc. Oddly, two of the coax cables are labeled "Demarc", The tech said one was the actual Demarc, and the other went to one of the coax outlets in the master bedroom. He "barreled" these two together. I seem to recall Spectrum had done this when I subscribed with them a couple of years ago, and wasn't able to get the MOCA network to work. After two service trips from Spectrum, they connected the correct Demarc cable to a powered splitter, and then connected the coax cables for each of the other rooms to the splitter. At that point I was able to get the MOCA network to work. The Frontier tech said their system won't work with a splitter. I can't imagine this is the case. My question is, should my MOCA network work if the two "Demarc" cables are barreled together with none of the other coax cables connected to anything, or do they need to connected in the same way Spectrum had it? He didn't seem to understand the MOCA network concept, and when he left, I only had an internet signal active on the coax outlet he barreled with the "Demarc". When I tried to connect a MOCA adapter, the internet was no longer showing on my computer. When I removed it and connected it back to the way he had it, there was still no internet on the computer. After an hour on the phone with Frontier, they determined there was a problem with the router (model NVG468MQ) and are sending a replacement.

Thanks for any and all help!

 

[krkaufman]

This makes it sound like you only have coax connectivity between your ONT and your router (an NVG468MQ). Is this correct? If yes, then you're leaving something out of your setup description, because the NVG468MQ lacks any MoCA WAN functionality, and so wouldn't be able to establish a MoCA WAN connection for itself.

Can you please review the equipment that you find connected to your router, especially its Ethernet WAN port, and then detail what you find?

 

[krkaufman]

The Frontier tech came out on Saturday and replaced all of the original Verizon Fios equipment from the side of the house and in the garage (500/500 speed).

Given this info (500/500) and that you seem to only have coax connectivity, I expect that you'll find that Frontier has also installed one or a pair of Frontier FCA251 MoCA adapters to establish your WAN connection over your coax.

I'm a bit busy, at present, so can't spend too much time on it right now. Barring other posts from knowledgeable sources here, here are a few other related threads (one fresh as of yesterday) covering the topic:

• https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/n9lgoj
• https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r3...CA-WAN-configuration-and-MoCA-LAN-coexistence
• https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/jpf9zt/_/gbg6goj

Basically, your best options (assuming the FCA251 adapters are in use) would be to move the router to where a direct Ethernet WAN connection could be established (eliminating the MoCA WAN and need for the FCA251 adapters); locate the router where dual coax lines between the central junction and the router location are available, allowing isolation of the MoCA WAN and LAN signals; or some other creative means of isolating the MoCA WAN and LAN signals. (example diagrams in the first bulleted post, above)

 

[degrub]

it would also helpif you sketch out a map of all the coax starting from the demarc and ONT. identify all of the devices by model # connected to the coax please.

 

[stu7575]

This makes it sound like you only have coax connectivity between your ONT and your router (an NVG468MQ). Is this correct? If yes, then you're leaving something out of your setup description, because the NVG468MQ lacks any MoCA WAN functionality, and so wouldn't be able to establish a MoCA WAN connection for itself.

Can you please review the equipment that you find connected to your router, especially its Ethernet WAN port, and then detail what you find?

Yes, there is a FCA251 MOCA adapter set to WAN connected to the router, and one connected to the ONT.
Am I correct in thinking I should be able to connect a splitter to the coax wall outlet in the bedroom with one cable going to the FCA251 (and ethernet cable going into the Broadband port on the router) and the other coax cable going to my Motorola MOCA adapter and ethernet cable going into a LAN port on the router to establish the LAN MOCA network?

The replacement router is supposed to be delivered today, and I'm trying to head off frustration in case this is the correct setup, but doesn't work because of the tech barreling the two "demarc" cables together instead of using a splitter and connecting each of the rooms coax cables.

 

[krkaufman]

Am I correct in thinking I should be able to connect a splitter to the coax wall outlet in the bedroom with one cable going to the FCA251 (and ethernet cable going into the Broadband port on the router) and the other coax cable going to my Motorola MOCA adapter and ethernet cable going into a LAN port on the router to establish the LAN MOCA network?

Close, but not without configuring your retail MoCA adapters to coexist with (i.e. operate in a separate frequency range than) the MoCA link established between the FCA251 adapters.

Did you read the linked posts/threads?

 

[krkaufman]

FYI... The OP from yesterday’s Reddit thread opted to move their router to where an Ethernet WAN connection could be directly established with the ONT, eliminating the need for the competing MoCA WAN network.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeNetworking/comments/n9lgoj/_/gxv4v4i

 

[stu7575]

I read the Reddit thread but did not follow fully. I had another Frontier tech come out today, but he was not able to get the MoCA LAN setup either. Here is a sketch of how the router, FCA251 and Mororola MoCA adapter are connected.

The MoCA light on the router is not illuminated with these connections, and when I log into the router, it shows Coax (MoCA) as "Down" and Privacy as Disabled. However, I believe after connecting a second coax from the Motorola MoCA adapter to the Coax Cable Line port on the router, the MoCA light on the router illuminates, and the status changes from "Down" to "Connected". Unfortunately, at that point, the computer loses the internet connection. I say "I believe" because I've tried a million different combinations with the Motorola and distinctly recall this happening.

Here is what the ONT looks like

And here is what the electrical panel in the Master Bedroom closet looks like

The two cables connected together are the Demarc and coax outlet on the bedroom wall.

I guess I'm struggling to understand how everything actually works together. My thought is the following:
1. Fiber signal goes into the ONT from the box on the outside of the house.
2. Signal exits the ONT via Ethernet into an FCA 251 and converts into coax.
3. Coax signal now travels to the Demarc cable in the electrical panel in the bedroom closet.
4. Demarc cable connects to the Coax cable for a specific outlet (bedroom wall in this case)
5. Signal travels from coax via the coax outlet into another FCA 251 converting it back into Ethernet to be connected to the router via Ethernet cable.

If this is correct, how is a MoCA LAN supposed to be connected?
What is the Cable Line port on the router supposed to do?

I don't have any Ethernet ports in my house, which is why I have MoCA adapters on each outlet, as I was running a HD Homerun Prime to provide TV. Based on my current setup, is putting the router in the garage and connecting it directly to the ONT an option? Since I'm not sure if any of this is correct, I have no idea how the signal would get from the router in the garage to where it needs to go.

Trying to educate myself on all of this so very appreciative of all the replies thus far!

 

[krkaufman]

The MoCA light on the router is not illuminated with these connections

As expected, since you’re not wanting to use the NVG468MQ’s paltry standard MoCA 2.0 built-in bridge for your MoCA LAN — which is why your diagram correctly shows the router NOT being connected via coax. (So your router correctly shows MoCA as “down,” since the router should NOT be coax-connected.)

Your physical connections in the diagram are correct, echoing the example diagram I’d posted to the Reddit thread:

​

Ideally they'd offer documentation on how to accomplish the dual MoCA WAN/LAN networks, similar to the following:

https://imgur.com/Frt0qFN

​

... but the issue isn’t the physical connections; it’s that all the MoCA LAN devices need to be configured to avoid/ignore the MoCA WAN network established by the two FCA251 adapters.

(need to read the rest of your post)

​

​

 

[degrub]

You should be able to put the router in the garage and connect its WAN port to the ONT ethernet port. THe issue will be the temperature/humidity limits on the router. If the garage is not conditioned space, then summer temperatures and condensing moisture on cool days can be an issue.

My fiber system is connected as follows ONT ethernet --->ethernet port GOCoax moca modem--RG6 port -->RG6 cable connected to other GOCoax modem RG6 port---> GOCoax ethernet port --> WAN ethernet port on ATT router.

 

[krkaufman]

My fiber system is connected as follows ONT ethernet --->ethernet port GOCoax moca modem--RG6 port -->RG6 cable connected to other GOCoax modem RG6 port---> GOCoax ethernet port --> WAN ethernet port on ATT router.

Right, same as the OP, but your coax is dedicated to the MoCA WAN link, while (as far as we’ve been informed) the OP has just the one coax line to the current router location.

p.s. I’ll probably copy/paste your environmental caution over to that Reddit thread where the poster has moved their router to their garage.

 

[krkaufman]

Oh, duh, how about just installing the router in the Master Bedroom closet (or was this already covered)? This would make the coax run from the ONT dedicated to the MoCA WAN link, but all other coax lines that you choose to connect would only have the MoCA LAN present, allowing both MoCA networks access to the full MoCA frequency range. (As part of the change, the FCA251 adapters would be set to “Full” for the MoCA WAN link, since they won’t be competing for the MoCA spectrum.)

edit: Reviewing the closet pic again, I’m wondering about power outlet availability, and aesthetic acceptability Re: router, FCA251 and cables being external to that cabinet.

Thanks for the closet pic; it helped.

p.s. Re: the closet pic, the existence of those blue Cat* cables requires followup. Do you have landline phone service? How many phone outlets are you currently using in the home, and where are they located? Critically, is there an unused phone outlet near your preferred router location? (‘gist: If unused, you might be able to repurpose some of your blue Cat* cabling to Ethernet, possibly providing further flexibility in placement of your router, while avoiding the MoCA WAN/LAN competition.)

 

[krkaufman]

I guess I'm struggling to understand how everything actually works together. My thought is the following:
1. Fiber signal goes into the ONT from the box on the outside of the house.
2. Signal exits the ONT via Ethernet into an FCA 251 and converts into coax.
3. Coax signal now travels to the Demarc cable in the electrical panel in the bedroom closet.
4. Demarc cable connects to the Coax cable for a specific outlet (bedroom wall in this case)
5. Signal travels from coax via the coax outlet into another FCA 251 converting it back into Ethernet to be connected to the router via Ethernet cable.

If this is correct, how is a MoCA LAN supposed to be connected?

All correct, and excellent point. With the barrel connector connecting those two runs, you have a dedicated line between the ONT and router location, so none of your other rooms are linked to that coax segment ... making a MoCA LAN pointless. If you wanted to stick with the same device locations but enable MoCA LAN connectivity (still needing to address the MoCA WAN/LAN competition issue), you’d need to use a splitter in the Master Bedroom closet, rather than the barrel connector, to get the additional rooms connected. (The ONT line would be connected to the splitter input.)

But if power is available, moving the router to the Master Bed closet would be a better approach.

 

[krkaufman]

What is the Cable Line port on the router supposed to do?

Nothing; it should be left disconnected. You won’t be using the inferior standard MoCA 2.0 built-in bridge of the NVG468MQ.

You could even install a 75-ohm terminator on the router’s coax port, just as a reminder that it was intentionally left unused (aside from developing the good habit of terminating unused coax ports).

 

[krkaufman]

I don't have any Ethernet ports in my house,

Ok, but...

p.s. Re: the closet pic, the existence of those blue Cat* cables requires followup. Do you have landline phone service? How many phone outlets are you currently using in the home, and where are they located? Critically, is there an unused phone outlet near your preferred router location? (‘gist: If unused, you might be able to repurpose some of your blue Cat* cabling to Ethernet, possibly providing further flexibility in placement of your router, while avoiding the MoCA WAN/LAN competition.)

 

[stu7575]

Oh, duh, how about just installing the router in the Master Bedroom closet (or was this already covered)? This would make the coax run from the ONT dedicated to the MoCA WAN link, but all other coax lines that you choose to connect would only have the MoCA LAN present, allowing both MoCA networks access to the full MoCA frequency range. (As part of the change, the FCA251 adapters would be set to “Full” for the MoCA WAN link, since they won’t be competing for the MoCA spectrum.)

Thanks for the closet pic; it helped.

p.s. Re: the closet pic, the existence of those blue Cat* cables requires followup. Do you have landline phone service? How many phone outlets are you currently using in the home, and where are they located? Critically, is there an unused phone outlet near your preferred router location? (‘gist: If unused, you might be able to repurpose some of your blue Cat* cabling to Ethernet, possibly providing further flexibility in placement of your router, while avoiding the MoCA WAN/LAN competition.)

When the house was built in 2007, it had 3 phone outlets and I had a land line, but have not actually had a phone connected in years. None of the 3 phone outlets are in use as I do not have any land line phone service, although if I ever decide to switch back to Spectrum, the Triple Feature (internet, TV, Phone) is usually less expensive than just two of the options so I suppose I would need to keep at least one of them available. The garage option for the router probably won't work since I'm in Texas and it gets really hot and humid. I don't mind having the router in the bedroom closet, but how would that actually get connected? Would it be:
1. Instead of the two coax cables that are connected to each other in the electrical panel, would one go to the FCA251 with the Ethernet cable from the FCA251 going into the router?
2. The Motorola MoCA adapter connects to the coax wall outlet in the bedroom and then connected to the computer?

I'm so used to seeing a rats nest of cables connected to everything it's difficult for me to visualize.

Currently the only solution Frontier has to offer is to swap out the ONT to a model that has Coax instead of Ethernet. This would eliminate the need for the FCA251, but would mean a downgrade in speed.

 

[krkaufman]

how would that actually get connected? Would it be:
1. Instead of the two coax cables that are connected to each other in the electrical panel, would one go to the FCA251 with the Ethernet cable from the FCA251 going into the router?

With the closet FCA251 connected to the router’s WAN Ethernet port, yes, that would establish the dedicated MoCA WAN link — providing that the closet FCA251 is connected to the “demarc” coax run, the coax line heading to the ONT.

Also, you would want to switch both FCA251 adapters to the “Full” setting. (power them both off; flip the toggles to “Full” on both; power on the ONT adapter, followed by the FCA251 at the router)

2. The Motorola MoCA adapter connects to the coax wall outlet in the bedroom and then connected to the computer?

Yes, correct, that’s all that should be needed for that room; however, that’s just the remote endpoint/client setup. You first need to establish, effectively, the MoCA access point: the main MoCA LAN bridge, linking the MoCA LAN to the router LAN.

To do so, you would install a MoCA adapter in the closet with the router (this is in addition to the FCA251 adapter dedicated to the MoCA WAN), connecting the MoCA adapter to a LAN port on the router and to the coax run heading to the bedroom.

Of course, this direct connect between the closet and bedroom affords just a single dedicated MoCA connection. If you need MoCA LAN connections in other rooms, you’d use an appropriately-sized splitter to connect the closet MoCA LAN adapter to all the needed locations.

 

[krkaufman]

Currently the only solution Frontier has to offer is to swap out the ONT to a model that has Coax instead of Ethernet. This would eliminate the need for the FCA251, but would mean a downgrade in speed.

Awful idea; just baffling. It really seems like Frontier doesn’t really understand what they’re doing with these FCA251 deployments.

Please have them call me, or direct them to my DSLReports thread.

 

[stu7575]

All correct, and excellent point. With the barrel connector connecting those two runs, you have a dedicated line between the ONT and router location, so none of your other rooms are linked to that coax segment ... making a MoCA LAN pointless. If you wanted to stick with the same device locations but enable MoCA LAN connectivity (still needing to address the MoCA WAN/LAN competition issue), you’d need to use a splitter in the Master Bedroom closet, rather than the barrel connector, to get the additional rooms connected. (The ONT line would be connected to the splitter input.)

But if power is available, moving the router to the Master Bed closet would be a better approach.

So, this is what I trued to explain to the installation tech. Spectrum did it the same way by connecting those two cables together. When they finally sent out a higher level installer, he said he had no idea why they did it that way. He connected the Demarc to a powered splitter and each of the room specific coax cables to that splitter. Once he did that, the MoCA LAN worked.

The Frontier installer said their system won't run with a splitter. I don't know why this would be the case. He also left the power part of the Spectrum splitter plugged in.

 

[krkaufman]

So, this is what I trued to explain to the installation tech. Spectrum did it the same way by connecting those two cables together. When they finally sent out a higher level installer, he said he had no idea why they did it that way. He connected the Demarc to a powered splitter and each of the room specific coax cables to that splitter. Once he did that, the MoCA LAN worked.View attachment 33784

The Frontier installer said their system won't run with a splitter. I don't know why this would be the case. He also left the power part of the Spectrum splitter plugged in.

View attachment 33785

Yikes. You can definitely unplug the amp power adapter and store it with the amp for possible future use, or sell them both. The Frontier tech wasn’t entirely wrong about the amp being incompatible with their service, at least relative to how they initially had you set up.

That said, if you need a splitter, you’ll want to acquire a MoCA 2.x-compatible passive splitter right-sized to your needs.

Here are some “designed for MoCA” 2-way splitters:

• Holland GHS-2PRO-M :: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P6VHLP0/?tag=snbforums-20
• Amphenol ABS312H MoCA 2.0 2-way :: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CRQLG8T/?tag=snbforums-20
• Verizon FiOS MoCA 2.0 2-way :: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010EIP8B8/?tag=snbforums-20
• Antronix MMC1002H-B https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PRYS8YZ/?tag=snbforums-20

Adjust the number of outputs as needed.