HELP: Eero user needs to switch to more powerful mesh network.

[NJRonbo]

Hello everyone! My first post here. Hope it is in the right area. I didn't see a forum specifically for mesh products.

Need some assistance.

I have a rather large home with multi-levels and a basement.

Have been using eero for the past couple of months. Have 5 units scattered throughout my home.

The problem? With an incoming Verizon Fios Internet speed of 330 MPBS, I can only get a wireless connection of about 75-100MBPS at remote points.

I hear the Netgear Orbi and Linksys Velop are much faster and more powerful units.

The problem with the Orbi, from what I am reading, is that each node communicates directly with the main router. So, if there is significant difference between the satellite and the main unit, the entire distribution to the home is ruined.

The Velop, on the other hand works more like a true mesh network. Supposedly, each device communicates with each other.

My ultimate question is, are any of these systems capable of delivering a strong 330 MBPS or even 980 MBPS (as I am upgrading in another month) throughout the home with little signal loss from the top floor to the basement?

Thank you in advance!

 

[thiggins]

My ultimate question is, are any of these systems capable of delivering a strong 330 MBPS or even 980 MBPS (as I am upgrading in another month) throughout the home with little signal loss from the top floor to the basement?

If your modem is centrally located, Orbi has the better shot due to its 4x4 (higher bandwidth) dedicated backhaul.

No system is going to give you Gigabit wireless throughput even under the best of conditions anyway. Most devices are 2x2 at best, which will do ~550 Mbps in 5 GHz in same or next room.

 

[sfx2000]

I have a rather large home with multi-levels and a basement.

Have been using eero for the past couple of months. Have 5 units scattered throughout my home.

The problem? With an incoming Verizon Fios Internet speed of 330 MPBS, I can only get a wireless connection of about 75-100MBPS at remote points.

There can be such a thing as too many/too much...

With Eero's - about a 1000 sq ft per unit is generally good enough for a single hop mesh.

With 5 units, might be getting into a mess with too many nodes, and what happens is that the nodes start chatting with each other to find the best routing path, and not getting a good solution there.

Pull two offline, and see what happens... pick any two...

 

[NJRonbo]

Guys,

Greatly appreciate your responses. You have really helped!

I think continuing with eero is now a dead issue. I just upgraded to 1GB coming into my home via a Verizon special deal. It's actually costing me less than the 330MBPS plan.

Simply, eero cannot support those speeds.

I would go to Orbi. That was my first choice. However, as Thiggins pointed out, the router needs to be centrally located as the nodes do not daisy-chain with each other, but rather, only talk to the main unit. That's impossible for me. My router is at the very top floor and that is where the ethernet comes in.

So, it's essentially Velop for me.

Now, the Velop tech team, as well as a few Amazon customers are telling me that getting 1GB speed with their system end-to-end is very possible.

My business partner is an IT guy and also says that it is impossible because radio technology is just not that refined.

However, I am wondering if Velop has been able to do the impossible and the professionals have not seen it in action yet. If you go to their site and look at the diagram and it promises zero signal loss from node to node.

 

[thiggins]

Now, the Velop tech team, as well as a few Amazon customers are telling me that getting 1GB speed with their system end-to-end is very possible.

It's not possible for many reasons. 2x2 AC radio can produce ~500 Mbps best case. That's standing right next to the router with a 2x2 AC device, if you have one.

The only way to even approach Gigabit via Wi-Fi would be to have a 4x4 access point on each floor, connected via Ethernet used with 4x4 devices.

 

[NJRonbo]

Appreciate the response. Looks like the folks from Linksys and some of their customers are touting unrealistic hopes.

Thanks again !!

 

[sfx2000]

It's not possible for many reasons. 2x2 AC radio can produce ~500 Mbps best case. That's standing right next to the router with a 2x2 AC device, if you have one.

I would agree - general guidance is just move the nodes closer..

 

[NJRonbo]

Thiggins and SFX,

Tell me if this makes sense. This is directly from the support team at Linksys:

As to the IT friends I would have to disagree with them. The way Velop was created is with a Triband Configuration per node. What this means is that on the 5Ghz networks one of the bands is dedicated purely to internode communication. Meaning the full 5 Ghz channel and throughput is dedicated to the communication between each device.

 

[pege63]

As to the IT friends I would have to disagree with them. The way Velop was created is with a Triband Configuration per node. What this means is that on the 5Ghz networks one of the bands is dedicated purely to internode communication. Meaning the full 5 Ghz channel and throughput is dedicated to the communication between each device.

Yes BUT it is still a 2x2 AC radio.

 

[thiggins]

Go read the review and look at the test data for Velop, Orbi and the other distributed Wi-Fi products we have reviewed. If you still want Velop, go ahead and buy one and draw your own conclusion.

 

[sfx2000]

Thiggins and SFX,

Tell me if this makes sense. This is directly from the support team at Linksys:

Kinda makes sense - key thing is that since the backhaul is defaulting to 5GHz WiFi - the same rules of physics apply - location is everything.

The update phone apps do help out here with node placement...

 

[NJRonbo]

SFX2000 and Thiggins,

You have kind of become my "go to" persons for advice.

The reason I don't have a wired network across my home is because of the layout. It's almost impossible for Verizon Fios to come in and run a line throughout my home.

But I have an idea and I want to run it by you....

Ask Verizon to drop off 300' of ethernet wire and connect it to the outside box.

I will take that 300' of wire and build a small trench around the base of the house, along the outside perimeter. Just bury the ethernet in the dirt. Then I can bring it to the other end of the house and have Verizon drill a hole on the other side and feed it through.

I will then connect that ethernet to one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002EQCW/?tag=snbforums-20

Will that work?

I think if I read correctly, I can go a max of 300' of ethernet without losing signal. That would enable me to bring the 1GB speed to the other end of the house. Just bury the ethernet cable in the dirt.

Will this work?

Thank you so much in advance

 

[tannebil]

Don't get hung up on trying to saturate your 1GB Internet connection with a wireless connection from a single device. In today's world, getting 200-400Mbps in the desired locations is a more reasonable objective unless you are prepared to get seriously technical. Which I assume you are not or you wouldn't have ended up with five eeros.

My experience with eeros was fine but all the mesh systems that use wireless backhaul are very particular about the placement of the access points and when you have five of them, the possible placements are overwhelming. Better to focus on getting wired connections to different parts of the house and use wired backhaul whenever possible.

One thing the consumer solutions tend to suffer from is twitchy roaming performance. Handoffs from one access point to another can be unpredictable. If you want to be able to wander all over your house talking on WiFi connections, you might want to think about a professionally designed and installed system. It costs significantly more but designing, installing, and troubleshooting a large wireless network is complicated.

The standard Verizon FIOS solution is to use MoCA to get Ethernet to locations that have coax. The standard FIOS router includes MoCA so all that has to be done (in theory) is to add a MoCA adapter at a coax drop where you want a wired connection. With your eeros connected to wired backhaul, you no longer have to worry about figuring out the best placements for 5 different units. Assuming you have a fair number of coax drops, you might be able to get all your eeros onto wired backhaul.

That also means that you might want to avoid solutions that don't support wired backhaul (like the Orbi).

Verizon is going to be a lot more amenable to installing new coax than Ethernet cabling. Just tell them where you want the new drop. If you have more than one TV, just tell them you want to move it to the room that doesn't have coax. But they do like to just run it outside the house tacked up someplace high. Sometimes they will trench it. All depends on the policies of the local office and the installers you get. You may get charged for installation. If aesthetics are important, you might want to look into contracting your own install of either coax or Ethernet.

You want at least MoCA 2.0 adapters. 2.0 bonded is better but I'm not sure what options are available from Verizon. Last I checked (a couple of years ago), they were just using rebadged Actiontec adapters. In any case, MoCA is a standard so they will interoperate.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013J7O3X0/?tag=snbforums-20

 

[NJRonbo]

Tannebil,

Thank you for such a detailed reply.

Here is where I am a little hung up...

I would rather not have Verizon drop coax. They insisted, when they set up my new Gigabit router, that ethernet be used. They brought in an ethernet cable.

Instead of worrying about expensive coax to ethernet adapters, do you think I can have Verizon just drop off 300' of ethernet, plug one end in the box and the lay it across the ground to the other side of the house and bring it in there?

I would then use the inexpensive coax switch box linked in post #12.

I can build a small trench and bury the wire. Verizon doesn't even have to worry about that.

 

[degrub]

300 ft is right at the limit for 100mbit ethernet. You are likely to run into bandwidth issues from minor cable or connection defects. You will likely be reduced to 10mbit if there are any significant issues.

If you run anything that far, use fiber or coax if you want to keep high bandwidth.

 

[NJRonbo]

300 ft is right at the limit for 100mbit ethernet. You are likely to run into bandwidth issues from minor cable or connection defects. You will likely be reduced to 10mbit if there are any significant issues.

If you run anything that far, use fiber or coax if you want to keep high bandwidth.

Thank you for that answer.

Put that into terms of speed so I can better understand your answer.

You are saying if I do a trenched ethernet line from the Fios box, across the yard, to the other side of my house -- and we are talking 300' in length which I know is a limit --- what reduction of speed would I see from 1GB speed? How many MBPS would I possibly be reduced to?

 

[degrub]

Thank you for that answer.

Put that into terms of speed so I can better understand your answer.

You are saying if I do a trenched ethernet line from the Fios box, across the yard, to the other side of my house -- and we are talking 300' in length which I know is a limit --- what reduction of speed would I see from 1GB speed? How many MBPS would I possibly be reduced to?

the spec for Gbit over copper pair calls for the same distance limit. As long as there are no cable/connector/device issues, the bandwidth should be close to 1 Gbit/sec.

100 mbit is 1 Gbit/10.

Average wireless N connection rates are in the 10-40 mbit range. Wirless AC at fastest (with same hardware on both AP and Laptop/tablet/phone should be in the several hundred mbit range.

HD movie streaming should require less than 20 mbit/sec per stream.

btw, the Netgear switch you linked to is a 10/100 mbit switch not 1Gbit/100mbit/10mbit if that is what you intended.

 

[NJRonbo]

Degrub,

So, all I would need is for Verizon to bring in the 300' ethernet from their box to the other side of my house.

All I would need is a 1GBit switch (sorry I linked to the wrong product), and I will get the fastest speed possible through that connection?

I don't need a router, right? Just the switch?

 

[NJRonbo]

I would guess this is the switch I need...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000BVYT3/?tag=snbforums-20

 

[degrub]

Degrub,

So, all I would need is for Verizon to bring in the 300' ethernet from their box to the other side of my house.

All I would need is a 1GBit switch (sorry I linked to the wrong product), and I will get the fastest speed possible through that connection?

I don't need a router, right? Just the switch?

If there is already a router upstream, then no, all you need is to plug into a 1gbit full duplex port on the router (if available) or a gbit switch off the router and then at the other end plug into your device or a gbit full duplex switch/router/access point port. A gbit switch (full duplex, non-blocking) will maintain the connection speed at close to the maximum. A router will slow it down some if it is doing any routing functions - ie if it is doing anything other than serving as a switch.

You can probably purchase a pre-terminated 100 meter cat 5e or cat 6 cable. The issue will be getting a cable designed for outdoor service. An ordinary cable is not designed for a moist environment. If you just want to test, get a spool of cat 5e and a termination kit. get a line testor that will confirm correct termination. You can always cut it up and use it for shorter runs indoors.