Help Needed: Mesh Wifi with Ethernet Backhaul vs Multiple Dumb APs

[wecksell]

Can someone please help clear up my confusion?

I have a large house with a basement, so I need good wife over three floors. I have wired ethernet in a few but not all rooms.

I'm looking at the Netgear Orbi, but part of me is curious why I can't just get three regular WiFi access points (With the same SSID and Password), put one on each level of the house, and call it a day.

What am I missing here? (I assume I'd need each AP in bridge mode so that only my main router or AP assigned IP addresses. What else am I missing?)

Thank you.

 

[thiggins]

You're not missing anything. APs connected via Ethernet will out perform any mesh system.
Ethernet has more bandwidth and is more stable than the wireless connetions that connect mesh points.

Access points ARE bridges. So they will be transparent to your LAN's DHCP server.

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-basics/33180-how-to-fix-wi-fi-roaming

 

[wecksell]

Ok. So - next question - why is the Netgear Orbi AC3000 $380 for a three pack at Costco but the Netgear Nighthawk X10 is $330 for a single unit?

Should I get the Orbi three pack, or two $160 Nighthawk X6S?

I need wired switches at my access points because I have a single ethernet drop in two rooms that I want APs in - is the X10 really twice as good as the X6S? Or does the Orbi simplify things well enough that it's worth the money even if I have a wired backhaul?

 

[thiggins]

X10 has a 60 GHz 11ad radio, which you won't use. Class numbers (AC1200, AD9000, etc.) haven't been reliable indicators of product performance for awhile.

X10 price is high probably because of the 60 GHz radio.

Orbi doesn't "simplify things". Go with the inexpensive APs and add a cheap 5 port switch if you need it.
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/33159-2x2-ac-access-point-roundup

 

[Gyz]

Hello guys,
I was reading this thread because of a problem I have with my access points.
I deployed several access points around home, all connected to my Ethernet backhaul wiring. Now, in some rooms, my phone/tablet/laptop remain connected to the access point from the adjacent room where they have been carried over from. The result is of course lousy speed and latency.
Now the question is: is there a WiFi mesh system with Ethernet backhaul that can solve this problem?

Thanks all who will try to help out

 

[tannebil]

Read the Roaming Secrets articles to understand why you are sad and the difficulties in roaming performance.

My rule of thumb is that, if possible, space your access points so that in the spots where you mostly use WiFi, your clients see a strong signal from one WAP and poor signals from all the others. That way, when you walk into those spots, your client will want to roam. You can’t force it to change, it has to want to change.

I’ve done this with both eero and Plume but I’m told it’s a lot more effective to use prosumer or better hardware, e.g. Ubiquiti Unifi, Ruckus, where you can adjust WAP transmit power levels.

 

[Trip]

I’ve done this with both eero and Plume but I’m told it’s a lot more effective to use prosumer or better hardware, e.g. Ubiquiti Unifi, Ruckus, where you can adjust WAP transmit power levels.

Indeed. And power levels are just the tip of the iceberg, not to mention handoff tuning, mesh topology control, radio specificity, enterprise L2/L3 feature set, and more available on the big boy stuff...

And like anything at the top end of the spectrum, it often just works, but the of course the problem is that Ruckus, Aruba, etc. are way more expensive and overkill for 90+% of average Joes, including most of SNB. (That's where EOL/EOS gear and eBay come in, if you have the skill, but I digress...)

So, @thiggins assertion of just sticking with a few cheap standalone AP's is actually more relevant than one may be led to believe, even up to now apparently...

 

[coxhaus]

I think gig Ethernet back haul is the secret to fast wireless for homes and small sites. The new business wireless APs are about to exceed 1 gig Ethernet as the wireless speeds have pushed the limits. And 1 gig is no longer adequate for back haul.

 

[Gyz]

Indeed. And power levels are just the tip of the iceberg, not to mention handoff tuning, mesh topology control, radio specificity, enterprise L2/L3 feature set, and more available on the big boy stuff...

Any idea about which APs to get and where to start learning to optimize their options?

 

[Trip]

Any idea about which APs to get and where to start learning to optimize their options?

Well, if it's more of a learning exercise or personal lab, you could do some working-pull / end-of-sale gear off eBay, like an Aruba 620 or 3200XM controller with some AP225 or 215 APs, or a Ruckus ZD1000 or ZD1100 controller and some 7372 or 7982 APs. Research on how to factory reset all the gear, flash firmware images to the controllers, adopt and initialize APs, create and apply your global config, etc. *Most* EOS/EOL stuff should function perfectly fine without active support licenses, and *most* OEM's should offer firmware/files for download. I say *most*, because you should double-check that's the case, just so you don't end up wasting the coin (I know it's case with mostly all of Ruckus's stuff, at least up to now).

If it's more of an actual use, just-want-it-to-be-right-from-the-start scenario, then I would prep for a larger spend and look into actively sold and supported AC Wave 2 gear, potentially integrated controller products to make things even easier (Aruba Instant / Ruckus Unleashed). I often do Ruckus R510's and R710's (and now the _20 series), and quite often Unleashed, for client with interference challenges, or those who just want their stuff, cost be damned. Their gear simply crushes it -- PD-MRC and BeamFlex are the real deal.

Anyways, hopefully that gives you ideas!

 

[coxhaus]

I bought 3 Cisco WAP371 wireless units off eBay for $50 apiece. Just flash them with the latest firmware. Do a factory reset and you should be good to go. You will need POE+ power to run them.

The WAP371 is currently supported by Cisco no EOL equipment. It not the very latest cutting edge in wireless but it pretty fast on 5 GHz.

 

[coxhaus]

I often do Ruckus R510's and R710's (and now the _20 series), and quite often Unleashed, for client with interference challenges, or those who just want their stuff, cost be damned. Their gear simply crushes it -- PD-MRC and BeamFlex are the real deal.

We are having a discussion on a different site where a guy compares his 1 R710 Ruckus against my 3 Cisco WAP371 wireless units. He has a smaller house than I do but it has come down to more APs at 5GHz seem to be a better solution than less Ruckus R710 units using BeamFlex technology. As the clients get farther away from the R710s the signal strength drops off and the client through put is reduced. With more APs the clients are closer to an AP because there are more of them. So the clients will have a overall higher through put being closer to an AP. If the clients had BeamFlex technology it might be a different story.

What do you think?

 

[Trip]

Well yes, three APs is almost always more desirable than one, assuming the right config, and will tend to trump almost any sub-technologies at play, PD-MRC et. al included. That said, I've found R-series stuff to be excellent in interference prone deployments and/or higher client densities. As for your specific comparison, it's a bit apples to oranges; the R710 being an entire AC generation newer and geared to carry higher density and nastier air space. Something more in-line would be an R600, but I would still probably gear it more as a fit for that kind of use-case than a WAP371.

All are perfectly viable products, though, given correctly-matched uses cases. As to whether or not 3 Cisco WAPs would suffice in your example scenario versus three comparable Ruckus units is tough to say. I would err that if it's low enough density and clean enough airspace, the WAPs would be fine, else Ruckus may show big enough performance gains to warrant the price premium.