Help with choosing decent CCTV ip camera for a budget DIY NAS+NVR

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

Hello everyone.

Thanks to a lot of support and help from some of the forum users on HERE, I now have a better understanding and confidence in building my own setup of 4 cameras, NVR and a NAS combined (4tb hdd).

One of the recommendations has been to get a Dell Micro 7050 (i5-6500T processor), with at least 8gb ram and a separate DAS drive.

Assuming this is the type I will buy, what decent camera can you recommend that this type of Dell PC would be able to handle. Remember it needs to be able to record all 4 cameras. They need to have good resolution and be good for night-time too.

My budget is no more than £70 per camera.

 

[bbunge]

I currently have a couple of: Amcrest 5MP Turret POE Camera, UltraHD Outdoor IP Camera POE with Mic/Audio, 5-Megapixel Security Surveillance Cameras, 98ft NightVision, 2.8mm Lens (103° FOV), IP67, MicroSD (256GB), (IP5M-T1179EW)
$57 on Amazon.
I use wired cams over WIFI for reliability. You will also need a PoE switch to power the cams.
For a NVR I use a Dell Optiplex 9020 with an i3 processor and 8 GB RAM. It is a small form PC with a 256 GB M.2 SSD. I am running Debian Bullseye with Zoneminder to record the cams.
Zoneminder is really great for the cost (free) and there are good how to's to get it up and running (I've written several of them).

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

I currently have a couple of: Amcrest 5MP Turret POE Camera, UltraHD Outdoor IP Camera POE with Mic/Audio, 5-Megapixel Security Surveillance Cameras, 98ft NightVision, 2.8mm Lens (103° FOV), IP67, MicroSD (256GB), (IP5M-T1179EW)
$57 on Amazon.
I use wired cams over WIFI for reliability. You will also need a PoE switch to power the cams.
For a NVR I use a Dell Optiplex 9020 with an i3 processor and 8 GB RAM. It is a small form PC with a 256 GB M.2 SSD. I am running Debian Bullseye with Zoneminder to record the cams.
Zoneminder is really great for the cost (free) and there are good how to's to get it up and running (I've written several of them).

Thanks bbunge. I assume you're based in USA, because in UK the Amcrest cameras are very expensive - £89.99 per camera.

You've mentioned Debian and Zoneminder, but I'm used to windows and these are Linux apps?

 

[Tech Junky]

Debian is the code base for Linux distro's.

https://zoneminder.com/downloads/ - looks like you can opt for different OS options.

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

Debian is the code base for Linux distro's.

https://zoneminder.com/downloads/ - looks like you can opt for different OS options.

Thanks Tech Junky. But which operating system is better for CCTV? Windows or Linux? or does it not matter?

 

[Tech Junky]

Doesn't matter.

The NAS side of it though for the least amount of issues would be Linux based since EXT4 has less issues than NTFS in Windows. Not to mention Linux isn't buggy compared to Windows. If I left my server alone and didn't apply weekly kernel updates I could have uptime durations of years. Windows on the other hand would certainly crash itself into a wall within a few months.

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

Doesn't matter.

The NAS side of it though for the least amount of issues would be Linux based since EXT4 has less issues than NTFS in Windows. Not to mention Linux isn't buggy compared to Windows. If I left my server alone and didn't apply weekly kernel updates I could have uptime durations of years. Windows on the other hand would certainly crash itself into a wall within a few months.

Ahh right. But how would that work in terms of having a NAS and an NVR device? Because I want to be able to use it for storage too, so surely I'd need Windows for that?

 

[Tech Junky]

surely I'd need Windows for that?

Any OS works but for stability Linux reigns supreme. NAS is a device but using the os as a share performs the same function and the NVR only needs storage which you can use the mentioned app and tell it where to store the video recordings on the share.

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

Any OS works but for stability Linux reigns supreme. NAS is a device but using the os as a share performs the same function and the NVR only needs storage which you can use the mentioned app and tell it where to store the video recordings on the share.

Ahh, well Linux it is then .

Just to let you know, that I've bought a Dell Optiplex 7050 micro MFF i5 7500T with 16gb ram and 256gb SSD. It currently has Win 10 pro installed.

 

[Tech Junky]

Cool. You can dual boot if you want to keep Windows handy. Linux will be able to resize the partition during advanced setup. Linux only takes maybe 10GB of space and that's being liberal with it. You can boot from it with a 1GB USB and it runs in RAM from there. It's lightweight and makes the most of the HW w/o the bloat of Windows. It's also good for hacking problematic issues when troubleshooting. I had an odd error / reboots hitting Windows and booting to Linux proved it to not be a HW issue as Windows was reporting and to be a driver issue causing the problems. When you have some funky stuff to debug or need a safe place to open an attachment it's good for that too since it's less likely to get infected since the focus is on Windows for exploits. There's a lot of perks but, some draw backs when it comes to common software for windows.

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

Cool. You can dual boot if you want to keep Windows handy. Linux will be able to resize the partition during advanced setup. Linux only takes maybe 10GB of space and that's being liberal with it. You can boot from it with a 1GB USB and it runs in RAM from there. It's lightweight and makes the most of the HW w/o the bloat of Windows. It's also good for hacking problematic issues when troubleshooting. I had an odd error / reboots hitting Windows and booting to Linux proved it to not be a HW issue as Windows was reporting and to be a driver issue causing the problems. When you have some funky stuff to debug or need a safe place to open an attachment it's good for that too since it's less likely to get infected since the focus is on Windows for exploits. There's a lot of perks but, some draw backs when it comes to common software for windows.

That's brilliant, thanks so much. I really look forward to the DIY setup. It'll be well worth it. One thing is that you mentioned that due to this PC type being very small, I would need to get a DAS. Can you please recommend a cheap DAS?

 

[Tech Junky]

2-bay? 3-bay? 4-bay?

I know you're reluctant to use more than 4TB drive for this project so....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XRK93R9/?tag=snbforums-20 -$100 w/ Raid if you opt to add a second drive later
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XYMCKCM/?tag=snbforums-20 - $100 Same Raid options

Otherwise you could just do a regular 3.5" drive enclosure w/ passive cooling through the case for ~$35 for a single drive. Since this is going to be on 24/7 though I wouldn't go that route due to durability.

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

2-bay? 3-bay? 4-bay?

I know you're reluctant to use more than 4TB drive for this project so....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XRK93R9/?tag=snbforums-20 -$100 w/ Raid if you opt to add a second drive later
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XYMCKCM/?tag=snbforums-20 - $100 Same Raid options

Otherwise you could just do a regular 3.5" drive enclosure w/ passive cooling through the case for ~$35 for a single drive. Since this is going to be on 24/7 though I wouldn't go that route due to durability.

Thanks buddy. I'm looking between 1 or 2 bay. But am I right that the following would be the approx. costs of the whole setup?

Dell PC = £170
Enclosure/DAS = £100
2 x 4TB WD Purple Drives = £200 (approx.)
4 x 5mp Cameras = £300 (approx.)
Cables + Accessories = £100 (approx.)

 

[Tech9]

Ahh, well Linux it is then .

Good luck finding equivalent to Windows software for Linux. You've got Tech Junky-ed well. From a simple solution to real headache. I'm out.

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

Good luck finding equivalent to Windows software for Linux. You've got Tech Junky-ed well. From a simple solution to real headache. I'm out.

I'm really sorry @Tech9, but I don't understand what the issue is. Surely on an open forum, I'm allowed to ask questions and clarify why someone thinks that one solution is better than another and with so many variables and spending of hundreds of pounds, that I choose the right option? Please do enlighten me if I'm saying or doing something wrong, because maybe it's me.

 

[Tech9]

I don't understand what the issue

You'll understand very quickly what the issue is after you install whatever Linux and start scratching your head how to do simple things on it. Choose wisely, because it may come with very limited GUI and more manual work. What GUI do you prefer, for example - KDE, GNOME, Xfce, MATE or Cinnamon? Other? After a short period of excitement you'll discover the software available for it - it resembles now dead Blackberry App store. Luckily some NVR open source applications run on Linux, but the choice is far more limited. Then you'll format your NAS intended drives with Windows PC incompatible file system just for the fun of it or because someone told you it's better, in theory. And on top of it you're ready to spend money on hardware you basically don't need.

My recommendations are adapted to the level of knowledge I see in responses. Read again the previous thread.

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

You'll understand very quickly what the issue is after you install whatever Linux and start scratching your head how to do simple things on it. Choose wisely, because it may come with very limited GUI and more manual work. What GUI do you prefer, for example - KDE, GNOME, Xfce, MATE or Cinnamon? Other? After a short period of excitement you'll discover the software available for it - it resembles now dead Blackberry App store. Luckily some NVR open source applications run on Linux, but the choice is far more limited. Then you'll format your NAS intended drives with Windows PC incompatible file system just for the fun of it or because someone told you it's better, in theory. And on top of it you're ready to spend money on hardware you basically don't need.

My recommendations are adapted to the level of knowledge I see in responses. Read again the previous thread.

Thanks @Tech9, I see what you mean with regards to the complexity of Linux vs windows and yes I agree with what you're saying as I'm very used to Windows and not Linux. But @Tech Junky made the setup and the availability of software sound very easy and his reasons were that whereas Linux was very stable, windows was unreliable and tended to crash.

But to be honest, I wasn't that much interested in even looking at software part yet and would like to leave that till a later stage because I'm still stuck on the hardware bit.

I've ended up purchasing a Dell Optiplex 7050 micro MFF i5 7500T with 16gb ram and 256gb SSD, but I'm thinking have I made a mistake because I now need to purchase another £100 or more hard drive enclosure (without hard drives), when I could have got away with had I instead purchase a slightly larger Small Form Factor PC which could fit 3.5" hard drives anyway and would have still been small enough and would have been cheaper.

Or am I better off installing 2 x 4tb 2.5" hard-drives inside the optiplex (if these can fit) and instead use a small m.2 drive to boot up the pc?

Fortunately the seller has both an SFF and MFF sized dell pc, so has given me the option to cancel the MFF purchase and get an SFF, so I need to make a choice. I'm also confused that if I did need a DAS, whether a DAS would be connected via USB to my PC or would it be via ethernet?

 

[degrub]

D=direct attached, e.g. USB3, SCSI, Tb, etc
N=network attached, e.g. ethernet

The dell micro usually has at most 1 position for a laptop drive 2.5 inch size -

https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/optiplex-7050-desktop_Owners-Manual_en-us.pdf

The SFF has mount points for 2 2.5 drives, no RAID support.

https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/optiplex-7050-desktop_owners-manual3_en-us.pdf

if you are just adding an external usb drive and can tolerate the slower access, then ok. Otherwise, if the larger chassis gives you SATA ports, i would use those. Plus you get better cooling for the chassis which is good for the drives that are running 24/7

Otherwise you are likely into a tower form factor with up to 3 drives ( 1 3.5 inch) but still no RAID support.

 

[ASUS-RT-AX82U]

D=direct attached, e.g. USB3, SCSI, Tb, etc
N=network attached, e.g. ethernet

The dell micro usually has at most 1 position for a laptop drive 2.5 inch size -

https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/optiplex-7050-desktop_Owners-Manual_en-us.pdf

if you are just adding an external usb drive and can tolerate the slower access, then ok. Otherwise, if the larger chassis gives you SATA ports, i would use those. Plus you get better cooling for the chassis which is good for the drives that are running 24/7

Thanks @degrub - I actually don't want slower access, so if connecting a DAS to usb means slower access / speeds, then I'd rather avoid it. One option I was thinking of is to somehow pull the SATA cable from the inside to the outside and place a 3.5" hard drive on the outside, but not only would it look very ugly, but it would only be one drive. At this rate, I was better off just going with a ready-built NAS as this is becoming a bit of a mess.

 

[degrub]

Dell boxes are optimized for the exact configuration maximums.
Look at the max transfer rated for SATA and USB3 - for the variety supported by the box - and look at the rated maximum transfer speed of the drive you select. Most 2.5 drives are 5400 rpm unless you specifically get 7200 rpm. i suspect video recording drives are 5400 since the focus is streaming in/out.

see if you can get video rated drives in 2.5 inch. regular drives will work btw. They are just not tuned for streaming.

If i was to use one of the dell boxes, i would get the SFF version and see how it goes. At least you can have 2 - 2.5 drives + the SS OS drive.

make sure you run the diagnostics before you open the case. then blow out all the dust, add the drives, and run them again.