Help with MoCA Adapter Losing Internet Connection on Frontier FIOS

[LocaMoca]

Hi Everyone,

Could really use help here- I have been on calls with Frontier multiple times and they can't figure it out! I have Frontier 500/500 and am using a MoCA 2.0 adapter (ScreenBeam ECB6250) to backhaul upstairs to a Wifi access point there. It's all been working great for over a year, but all of a sudden and for no apparent reason, the ECB6250 has been losing internet connection a few times a week:

• When the ECB6250 internet goes out, all lights stay green (incl. Coax light), but no internet comes through (all devices show strong signal, but no internet)
• When this happens, the main Arris router continues to operate perfectly fine and I can continue to get internet from that point
• I even swapped the out with a different ECB6250 I bought from Amazon, but issue persisted even with the brand new one
• Issue happens even when I plug laptop directly into ECB6250 via ethernet, so I know the TP Link is not the problem
• If I power cycle the ECB6250 it will work for a day or so, and then go out again in a few days or hours (not consistent)
• I've restarted / power cycled everything in this diagram at least once
• I don't have TV service of any kind; I use YouTube TV
• Frontier can't figure it out...basically they just tell me to upgrade to their Eero mesh wifi, but I'm sure it's a solvable problem (and I'd like to keep the MoCA backhaul)

Any thoughts? Thank you!

 

[degrub]

Did you use a different ethernet cable when you plugged in the laptop or did you use the existing cable going to the TP-Link ?

Best i can tell, there is no "internet" light on the modem. Are you referring to the ethernet port link speed and link activity lights on the port ?

If the light on the left side of the ethernet port turns off, then there is an issue 1) that port, 2) cable/terminations, 3) ethernet port on the other device, or 4) corrupted firmware/driver either in the modem or client device. i would swap out the cable first with a known good, working cable. When you swapped the ECB6250 with a different one and the issue persisted, that should rule out the ECB port unless there is a common firmware issue (unlikely). If the laptop lan port is working with other devices - router, switch, etc, then it is not likely the issue. That leaves the cable.
If the cable is not an issue, then add a dumb gigabit switch in between the ECB and other devices. Sometimes that cures issues.

 

[LocaMoca]

Thanks for the response @degrub! When this started happening I tried a new cable, but still had the same issue. And I'm certain it isn't the laptop LAN port- it works with other devices.

As for lights, when the issue happens the Power and Coax lights are both green on the ECB6250. So it seems that the MoCA connection is still working, just no internet. I didn’t check the Ethernet port lights on the ECB when this happens, but I will do so next time the issue comes up (sometimes goes a day or two without problems). I do know that when it happens, the green Internet light on the TP Link access point goes out.

Appreciate the idea on the Gig switch- so you have any specific model recommendations?

 

[degrub]

i routinely use Netgear unmanaged switches. GS305 V3 is current model.

One thing to try also, would be to swap the port on the first splitter of the coax going to the 6250 with the port used for the coax going to the next splitter to the modem. Just swap the position of the cables.

 

[krkaufman]

See recent, related thread, here: What moca adapters can be manually configured for frontier LAN settings (1025-1350/mhz) ?

Based on your diagram, I expect that your issue is the same as described in the above recent thread: using a pair of FCA251 adapters (set to "WAN") for the ONT/router MoCA WAN link, and trying to also setup a MoCA LAN without restricting the MoCA LAN to the D-Low frequency range (1125-1225 MHz), in order to avoid overlap with the MoCA WAN, which is operating at 1475-1675 MHz, the frequency range associated with the FCA251["WAN"] setting. (Aside from not restricting the ECB6250 to D-Low, one drawback of the Arris NVG468MQ is that it doesn't offer the ability via its UI to customize the MoCA frequency, to limit it to the D-Low range.)

FCA251/WF-803FT configuration settings:​

• WAN: 1475-1675 MHz (1000 Mbps max)
• LAN: 1025-1350 MHz (1500 Mbps max)
• FULL: 1125-1675 MHz (2500 Mbps max)

Were you using all FCA251 adapters, the MoCA WAN pair would be set to "WAN", and all the FCA251 adapters used for the MoCA LAN would be set to "LAN" -- and the NVG468MQ's built-in MoCA LAN bridge would need to be taken out of the setup.

Current:​

• MoCA WAN: 1475-1675 MHz (via FCA251["WAN"] pair)
• MoCA LAN (scan range): 1125-1675 MHz

Alternative:​

• MoCA WAN: 1475-1675 MHz (via FCA251["WAN"] pair)
• MoCA LAN (scan range):
  • 1125-1225 MHz (D-Low), or
  • 1025-1325 MHz (via FCA251["LAN"] adapters-only)

I don't have TV service of any kind; I use YouTube TV

Solution: Given you do NOT have TV signals on the coax, get Frontier to provide you with a pair of Frontier FCA252 MoCA 2.5 adapters (or grab a pair off eBay, at $30 per). The critical bit is that the Frontier FCA252 adapter has a non-standard setting ("25GW") that allows them to operate in the 400-900 MHz frequency range, allowing for two full throughput MoCA 2.5 networks on the shared coax. (example diagram)

Suggested/preferred:​

• MoCA WAN: 400-900 MHz (via FCA252["25GW"] pair)
• MoCA LAN (scan range): 1125-1675 MHz (default Ext. Band D)

FCA252 configuration settings:​

• 1GW: 1475-1675 MHz (1000 Mbps)
• 25GW: 400-900 MHz (2500 Mbps)
• LAN: 1125-1675 MHz (2500 Mbps)

If Frontier doesn't require return of the FCA251 adapters as a swap-out, they can be redeployed for your MoCA LAN use, configured to their "FULL" configuration setting. Or grab additional FCA252 adapters for LAN use, using their "LAN" setting. The NVG468MQ's built-in MoCA LAN bridge could also be used, but it'd be a shame given that it's just standard MoCA 2.0, limited to 400 Mbps max shared throughput. (or 500 Mbps max with just a single remote MoCA node.)




p.s.

am using a MoCA 2.0 adapter (ScreenBeam ECB6250)

FWIW, the ECB6250 is MoCA 2.5 (w/ 1 Gbps network port).

 

[krkaufman]

or something else...

 

[krkaufman]

It's all been working great for over a year, but all of a sudden and for no apparent reason, the ECB6250 has been losing internet connection a few times a week:

It might be worthwhile, as a short-term test/workaround, to configure the ECB6250 to limit its operating frequency to D-Low. Perhaps doing that would be be sufficient, and the NVG468MQ lacking this customization feature would be moot. (related)

(I'd still recommend switching to the FCA252["25GW"] WAN, as soon as possible.)

 

[LocaMoca]

@krkaufman, thank you so much, are you are a legend! I just ordered a pair of FCA252s and will put them in instead of the FCA251s. Is there any impact on speed from using the FCA252s on 25GW vs. a wider range (not that it matters since I only have 500/500, but asking for the future if I upgrade).

Thank you!

 

[krkaufman]

Is there any impact on speed from using the FCA252s on 25GW vs. a wider range

Give the above post another scan. The FCA252 "25GW" setting *is* the widest possible frequency range for MoCA 2.5 (5 channels wide), just a shifted range from the spec's standard (1125-1675 MHz). The FCA251["WAN"] offers a narrower, 2-channel-only link; and use of the FCA251["WAN"] pair for the MoCA WAN would force a retail MoCA LAN setup to the even narrower single MoCA 2.x channel allocated for D-Low.

Using the FCA252["25GW"] MoCA WAN workaround, your WAN link supports up to 2500 Mbps unidirectional throughput (if the 2.5 GbE-capable FCA252 adapters are paired with 2.5 GbE gear), or an aggregate/shared 2500 Mbps for both download & upload. (So reasonably could be said to fully support up to a fiber 1 Gbps symmetrical plan, paired with GigE gear; and partially support up to a 2 Gbps plan when paired with 2.5 GbE gear and willingness to compromise on symmetrical.) And with the MoCA WAN shifted entirely out of the standard MoCA Extended Band D spectrum, the MoCA LAN adapters can bond up to 5 channels, as well, assuming MoCA 2.5, and would also have a 2500 Mbps shared max throughput over MoCA.

 

[LocaMoca]

Awesome, thank you so much @krkaufman! Also, per your prior recommendation, while I wait to get the FCA252s delivered, I've limited the ECB6250 to only scan in the D-Low range.

 

[krkaufman]

Awesome, thank you so much @krkaufman! Also, per your prior recommendation, while I wait to get the FCA252s delivered, I've limited the ECB6250 to only scan in the D-Low range.

I'll be interested to hear if that helps with the stability. (hope it helps)

 

[LocaMoca]

Update here, @krkaufman: the internet coming off the ECB6250 went out again today, even after limiting it to D-Low band yesterday. The new FCA252s are on the way, so hopefully that will solve the problem for good, but wanted to update this thread.

 

[krkaufman]

Update here, @krkaufman: the internet coming off the ECB6250 went out again today, even after limiting it to D-Low band yesterday. The new FCA252s are on the way, so hopefully that will solve the problem for good, but wanted to update this thread.

Thanks for the followup. Dang.

Had you also disabled the "Network Search" option on the ECB6250? (Wish you had another ECB6250 on-hand that would allow testing this approach without the NVG468MQ in the mix.)

I'm not 100% sure the FCA252 approach will resolve your issues, since the "worked for a year without issue" is puzzling, but it *will* eliminate the basic MoCA frequency overlap issue as the potential cause, along with boosting the MoCA WAN and LAN throughput rates up to 2500 Mbps each. And you'll have 2 additional MoCA adapters for LAN use, allowing a swap-out of the ECB6250 to determine whether it's just an issue with that adapter.

 

[degrub]

he did the swap out test with another he got from Amazon. Same result.
Hey @LocaMoca , when you swapped out the ECB with the new one, did you swap the wall wart power supply too ? If not, take the new power supply and replace the one you have been using.

i recall having a couple moca 1.1 modems do a similar thing to me a long time ago.

 

[krkaufman]

he did the swap out test with another he got from Amazon. Same result.

Kept the same model, though. (MOST unlikely as the cause, just one extra option should the issue persist once the frequency overlap is eliminated.)

 

[LocaMoca]

Had you also disabled the "Network Search" option on the ECB6250?

I did not do this yesterday, but I just did now so we'll see if that helps! What does this option do?

Hey @LocaMoca , when you swapped out the ECB with the new one, did you swap the wall wart power supply too ? If not, take the new power supply and replace the one you have been using.

I didn't swap out power supply; just plugged it into the existing one. Unfortunately, I already returned the new ECB6250 that I bought (since I concluded that it wasn't the issue), so can't try a new power supply at the moment. But I don't think it's the issue since when I lose internet, all the lights stay green and the device overall looks like it's well powered.

Thanks again for the ideas @krkaufman and @degrub

 

[krkaufman]

I did not do this yesterday, but I just did now so we'll see if that helps! What does this option do?

A bit like it sounds … tells the adapter to scan the MoCA frequencies, or not (if disabled), for other MoCA nodes, to try to locate another node to which to connect. No clue how this function behaves when the adapter has been set to D-Low, but the referenced comment (the Amazon review) indicates that disabling the “Network Search” was necessary, in their case, to eliminate the cross-network confusion. (But they were working with two like adapters, that could both be restricted in the same manner … while you have the NVG468MQ, impervious to this customization.)

 

[degrub]

I did not do this yesterday, but I just did now so we'll see if that helps! What does this option do?


I didn't swap out power supply; just plugged it into the existing one. Unfortunately, I already returned the new ECB6250 that I bought (since I concluded that it wasn't the issue), so can't try a new power supply at the moment. But I don't think it's the issue since when I lose internet, all the lights stay green and the device overall looks like it's well powered.

Thanks again for the ideas @krkaufman and @degrub

hope so, but you may be surprised

 

[LocaMoca]

Update: un-checking the “Network Search” on the ECB6250 box didn’t help. After working for two days, lost internet connection again today.

However, I just got the new FCA252s and swapped them in on 2GW mode for the existing FCA251s.

Working so far, but will give it a day or two. If that doesn’t work, my next experiment will be remove the Arris MoCA bridge by using the pair of FCA251s in LAN mode for the LAN (vs current setup of using Arris and ECB6250 for the LAN)

 

[krkaufman]

my next experiment will be remove the Arris MoCA bridge by using the pair of FCA251s in LAN mode for the LAN (vs current setup of using Arris and ECB6250 for the LAN)

To be clear (as Frontier made this confusing between their “FCA” adapters), if looking to use the FCA251 adapters for the MoCA LAN in the updated FCA252[25GW] setup, they should be set to “FULL.” (related)

The FCA251 adapters set to “FULL” should be able to interconnect with the ECB6250 using its default settings, so you have enough MoCA LAN adapters to support two remote locations: 1 MoCA AP node + 2 remote nodes.

edit: updated to correct for single ECB6250 adapter

my next experiment will be remove the Arris MoCA bridge

Given the NVG468MQ built-in is just standard MoCA 2.0, this should be on the project plan regardless.