Home Network Upgrade with RT-BE88U (Merlin) & AX-58U as AiMesh Node - Inputs ?

[wrink]

Hello, Long-time Merlin user considering a home-network upgrade with a RT-BE88U - given that Merlin is just beginning to release firmware betas for it.

I would like to get some consensus on whether my thinking is correct about getting real-world improvements with a new RT-BE88U - before I invest it it, hence the post.

I would like the RT-BE88U to be main router in the home network, running VPN Director Client internally with Wireguard. Then, I would like to get my current AX-58U to become one of the AiMesh node, along with an RP-AX56 as another AiMesh node. My current home network is with the latter 2, so the intent is to switch to a 3-node AiMesh network having the RT-BE88U as main node, and relegating the AX-58U as one of the satellite nodes, with the other satellite node being an RP-AX56.

My current limitations that I would like to improve would be the latency across the network in general, and especially to my cable modem. My hope is that have the AX-58U as the satellite node in the critical path of the star-shaped network to my office and bedroom would help some. At least the latency shouldn't degrade. And the other hope is to of course improve the bandwidth in 5 and 6 GHz bands that my M3 Macs are capable of. Finally, running Wireguard in the RT-BE88U would help improve the maximum VPN-specific throughput that is possible currently using the AX-58U, as the RT-BE88U has far stronger CPU and more RAM.

Would I receive real-world benefits with a RT-BE88U with my above thinking ? I'm not even considering MLO and other factors at this point - and my concern is that I may be missing some compatibility problems wrt wireless between the RT-BE88U with my older AX-58U and RP-AX56 AiMesh nodes.

Thoughts ?

 

[Tech9]

And the other hope is to of course improve the bandwidth in 5 and 6 GHz bands

None of the above devices has 6GHz band.

 

[wrink]

None of the above devices has 6GHz band.

Yes, understand that, so the question(s) boils down to just 5 GHz band.

 

[Tech9]

As per @visortgw your RT-AX58U on 3004.388 firmware will be compatible with Pro features of your new RT-BE88U on 3006.102 firmware. Your RP-AX56 on 3004.386 firmware most like won't be. I strongly believe both won't be compatible so please test and let us know. This compatibility between different hardware and firmware is not documented by Asus. Talking about the the new custom VLAN + Guest Network Pro profiles in 3006.102 firmware and eventual propagation to AiMesh nodes running 3004.388 firmware.

What we know so far:
1) older AiMesh nodes running 3004.386 firmware are highly unlikely to be compatible
2) some higher end models on 3004.388 may have become or will become compatible at some point
3) some lower end models running 3004.388 firmware show as not compatible in Guest Network Pro settings
4) ExpertWiFi series running on 3006.102 firmware may have marketing compatibility restrictions, unconfirmed

At this stage just use what you have and please share what works and what doesn't so other people know what to expect.

A discussion on this subject for your reference is here:

YazFi - YazFi Lite with Router in AP Mode?

Hi @Jack Yaz , your addon has been outstanding, especially for my recent needs. Are there any plans to implement a lite version of your addon to operate in AP Mode? Most of the functions wouldn't work but I think it would be a great function to add. It would allow soft handoff between SSID's on...

www.snbforums.com

 

[visortgw]

I know that i have an RT-AX68U in the "spare" box at home, but I don't know if I still have an RT-AX58U as well -- I will check when I return home tomorrow evening. Either way, I will temporarily configure one or both as AiMesh nodes attached to my GT-BE98 Pro to determine compatibility and report back for benefit of all.

 

[Tech9]

I actually ordered an EBG15 just 10 minutes ago, but noticed this thing has no new firmware from May 2024 and cancelled the order. It's cheap*, but I don't want to waste my time testing 4-5 months old firmware. My RT-AX86U last available firmware is also from May 2024. I was expecting to see something fresher for both, but nada.

* - 120CAD or around 87USD. Not paying CAD300-500 for AX Pro or BE router just for testing... did it once with RT-AX86U, sitting on the shelf now.

 

[visortgw]

Hello, Long-time Merlin user considering a home-network upgrade with a RT-BE88U - given that Merlin is just beginning to release firmware betas for it.

I would like to get some consensus on whether my thinking is correct about getting real-world improvements with a new RT-BE88U - before I invest it it, hence the post.

I would like the RT-BE88U to be main router in the home network, running VPN Director Client internally with Wireguard. Then, I would like to get my current AX-58U to become one of the AiMesh node, along with an RP-AX56 as another AiMesh node. My current home network is with the latter 2, so the intent is to switch to a 3-node AiMesh network having the RT-BE88U as main node, and relegating the AX-58U as one of the satellite nodes, with the other satellite node being an RP-AX56.

My current limitations that I would like to improve would be the latency across the network in general, and especially to my cable modem. My hope is that have the AX-58U as the satellite node in the critical path of the star-shaped network to my office and bedroom would help some. At least the latency shouldn't degrade. And the other hope is to of course improve the bandwidth in 5 and 6 GHz bands that my M3 Macs are capable of. Finally, running Wireguard in the RT-BE88U would help improve the maximum VPN-specific throughput that is possible currently using the AX-58U, as the RT-BE88U has far stronger CPU and more RAM.

Would I receive real-world benefits with a RT-BE88U with my above thinking ? I'm not even considering MLO and other factors at this point - and my concern is that I may be missing some compatibility problems wrt wireless between the RT-BE88U with my older AX-58U and RP-AX56 AiMesh nodes.

Thoughts ?

What is your current primary router? RT-AX58U?What bandwidth (down/up) is currently provided by you ISP?

 

[visortgw]

I actually ordered an EBG15 just 10 minutes ago, but noticed this thing has no new firmware from May 2024 and cancelled the order. It's cheap, but I don't want to waste my time testing 4-5 months old firmware. My RT-AX86U last available firmware is also from May 2024. I was expecting to see something fresher for both, but nada.

Which is why I'm currently using Merlin firmware on my RT-AX86U AiMesh node. IMO, based upon all of the recent Asus firmware releases across the spectrum since late September (including RT-AX58U just a few days ago), I would expect that a new firmware release for the RT-AX86U is imminent.

 

[Tech9]

I was actually expecting to see a new firmware based on multiple releases with the same changelog for other models. The surprise was this ExpertWiFi with one initial release in Feb 2024 and one more in May 2024... that's it. I would think business marketing has some better firmware support, but... they may have done it right the first time, who knows?

 

[wrink]

What is your current primary router? RT-AX58U?What bandwidth (down/up) is currently provided by you ISP?

Yes, current primary is RT-AX58U. I currently have 300 Mbps down and 100 Mbps up, but the Wireguard engine inside the AX58U is unable to support higher than 200-220 Mbps at the highest. I am hoping that the RT-BE88U will fix at least that limitation - and if so, I can possibly switch to a higher upload/download speed from the ISP as well.

However, I'm more concerned also with the compatibility factors discussed above - especially with regards AiMesh. At the very least, I would need a stable, jitter-free and low latency connection to the endpoints (like my work or personal laptop) that will be connected to the AX58U in my potential setup - there is a NAS connected to my primary router, so bandwidth/latency for content on that NAS is traffic on the home wifi network as well. The RT-BE88U will be the primary in the living room, while the AX58U would be the AiMesh node next to my office and bedroom that would my work and home laptops. And the RP-AX56 would be at the other end of the home, feeding some Ring camera's etc - however, I'm hoping that connecting the 3 in a star-network wouldn't actually degrade the bandwidth/latency capabilities of the RT-BE88U, and I would get a better overall network than current in terms of latency and throughput.

Thanks to everyone for chiming in. Great learning experience for me, and inputs.

 

[Tech9]

Didn't catch this detail - wired or wireless AiMesh?

 

[visortgw]

Yes, current primary is RT-AX58U. I currently have 300 Mbps down and 100 Mbps up, but the Wireguard engine inside the AX58U is unable to support higher than 200-220 Mbps at the highest. I am hoping that the RT-BE88U will fix at least that limitation - and if so, I can possibly switch to a higher upload/download speed from the ISP as well.

However, I'm more concerned also with the compatibility factors discussed above - especially with regards AiMesh. At the very least, I would need a stable, jitter-free and low latency connection to the endpoints (like my work or personal laptop) that will be connected to the AX58U in my potential setup - there is a NAS connected to my primary router, so bandwidth/latency for content on that NAS is traffic on the home wifi network as well. The RT-BE88U will be the primary in the living room, while the AX58U would be the AiMesh node next to my office and bedroom that would my work and home laptops. And the RP-AX56 would be at the other end of the home, feeding some Ring camera's etc - however, I'm hoping that connecting the 3 in a star-network wouldn't actually degrade the bandwidth/latency capabilities of the RT-BE88U, and I would get a better overall network than current in terms of latency and throughput.

Thanks to everyone for chiming in. Great learning experience for me, and inputs.

First of all, you will never achieve full bandwidth using Wireguard, OpenVPN, or any other VPN hosted on your router. There is processing that must be done for encryption/decryption for traffic across the VPN tunnel. Yes, the GT-BE98 Pro would certainly maximize the performance since its specs are night and day difference from the RT-AX58U. Also, if you are considering moving to a higher ISP bandwidth, both a modem and a router with 2.5 Gbps ports are essential.

As far as latency, jitter, etc., I see no degradation between primary router and nodes for wired backhaul -- I would not suggest wireless backhaul for your needs. Locking fixed wifi devices (e.g., Ring cameras) to a particular node can help overall performance. I have used AiMesh for several years, and its stability continues to improve over time.

 

[wrink]

Didn't catch this detail - wired or wireless AiMesh?

Wireless AiMesh all the way. RT-BE88U as main node (instead of AX-58U as main node, which is current setup) - thus relegating to the AX-58U to be most important secondary wireless AX-58U, and RP-AX56 to be the least important wireless AiMesh node is the hope.

 

[wrink]

First of all, you will never achieve full bandwidth using Wireguard, OpenVPN, or any other VPN hosted on your router. There is processing that must be done for encryption/decryption for traffic across the VPN tunnel. Yes, the GT-BE98 Pro would certainly maximize the performance since its specs are night and day difference from the RT-AX58U. Also, if you are considering moving to a higher ISP bandwidth, both a modem and a router with 2.5 Gbps ports are essential.

As far as latency, jitter, etc., I see no degradation between primary router and nodes for wired backhaul -- I would not suggest wireless backhaul for your needs. Locking fixed wifi devices (e.g., Ring cameras) to a particular node can help overall performance. I have used AiMesh for several years, and its stability continues to improve over time.

Yes, understand all your points, but having a wired backhaul is probably not going to work for my home, just from a wiring and use-case standpoint. So will have to live with wireless AiMesh - and currently its rock-solid for my wireless AiMesh with Merlin on the AX58U as main node, and latest Asus firmware on the RP-AX56. So looking to maintain the stability if having the RT-BE88U. So in a nutshell, I'm fine with the current stability, just looking for throughput improvement by using the RT-BE88U + AX-58U as the most important wireless nodes with an upgrade.

Good to know you don't see any latency/jitter degradation at least on the wired backhaul.

I will likely not go to Gigabit or higher with my ISP, because the math doesn't necessitate that with even more than one simultaneous 4K streams currently for the 3 person household. My TV is currently connected by ethernet to the main router (AX58U) anyways.

 

[Tech9]

Wireless AiMesh all the way

Save your money then. The latency to your cable modem will stay exactly the same, it's actually upstream 8-16ms. The devices connected to your nodes won't exceed much the performance you currently have. Wireless nodes are Repeaters with throughput cut in half due to retransmissions. Don't reuse everything you have just because you have it. This RP-AX56 is perhaps not needed, you didn't need a 3rd node before. It will make things only worse. About $350 later your user experience most likely won't improve much. And this mix of 3006.102, 3004.388 and 3004.386 firmware... not the best, mostly relying on good luck situation. For 3 people household with 3-5 active devices I wouldn't even bother replacing the main router.

 

[visortgw]

...

I will likely not go to Gigabit or higher with my ISP, because the math doesn't necessitate that with even more than one simultaneous 4K streams currently for the 3 person household. My TV is currently connected by ethernet to the main router (AX58U) anyways.

The point is that when I upgraded to 1 Gbps down/35 Mbps up from my ISP, I was not able to achieve full bandwidth at the router with 1 Gbps router WAN port (connected to 2.5 Gbps modem port). I was maxing out at 700-800 Mbps down. Once I went to 2.5 Gbps port on RT-AX86U (and later GT-AX6000 and GT-BE98 Pro), I would routinely see 1050-1100 Mbps down (above 1 Gbps due to minimal overprovisioning).

 

[Tech9]

I would routinely see 1050-1100 Mbps down

True, but only on ISPs with overprovisioning. I recently switched my main home connection to a different ISP and the line is speed capped upstream to exactly what I pay for 1000/50Mbps. I've measured 990/50 to be exact. In this case it doesn't make much of a difference on Gigabit port (940/50).

 

[wrink]

The point is that when I upgraded to 1 Gbps down/35 Mbps up from my ISP, I was not able to achieve full bandwidth at the router with 1 Gbps router WAN port (connected to 2.5 Gbps modem port). I was maxing out at 700-800 Mbps down. Once I went to 2.5 Gbps port on RT-AX86U (and later GT-AX6000 and GT-BE98 Pro), I would routinely see 1050-1100 Mbps down (above 1 Gbps due to minimal overprovisioning).

I see, so there seems to be marketing bluff with regards to the available bandwidth. Good to know. Personally, I may not go as high as you did, so might be fine with Gigabit ethernet.

 

[Tech9]

I see, so there seems to be marketing bluff with regards to the available bandwidth.

Marketing uses theoretical maximum bandwidth. You'll get the available bandwidth in your location and capped by capabilities of your client devices.

See realistic expectations here:

Recommendation For Next Router. Currently have RT-AC88U and RT-AC68U (as a node).

Hello, I recently moved to a 1 Gbps internet plan and apparently the RT-AC88U is too old to supply speeds much above 500 Mbps wirelessly to the devices on my network. I am looking to replace both the AC88U and AC68U and am curious what devices I should be considering. I want to keep the 8...

www.snbforums.com

What you see above is from your main router. From the nodes as wireless repeaters - less, down to 1/2.

 

[visortgw]

True, but only on ISPs with overprovisioning. I recently switched my main home connection to a different ISP and the line is speed capped upstream to exactly what I pay for 1000/50Mbps. I've measured 990/50 to be exact. In this case it doesn't make much of a difference on Gigabit port (940/50).

Point was with 1 Gbps WAN port on router, you're unlikely to achieve anywhere near 1 Gbps at router, at least not with Spectrum cable.