If you don't have speeds in access of 150Mbps whats the point of a AC router ?

[Subzero89]

I've decided that I'm either going to get the Archer C9 $120 or the Netgear R6400 $130. I definitely need an upgrade so why not upgrade to the latest standard and it would be only $20 or $30 more anyway depending on which I use. Even though I know I don't have the speed to take advantage of the AC standard, but who knows. But my orginal point still stands.

Now I need to find out if the Archer C9 or the Netgear R6400 is better and which one has better range.

 

[sfx2000]

So I'm a need of a new wireless router and I've been doing some research and from what I'm reading wireless N is good for up to about 150Mbps with a N900 compatible router. Right now I have a 25Mbps down and it's plenty for now. The max my cable company provides in my area is 50Mbps, which I don't need and wouldn't want to pay for anyway. Also from what I've read the range is the same with AC routers. Of coarse AC wireless does provide much faster file transfer speeds for NAS/HDD's but I don't use any of that stuff and most user don't use those extras neither. Is it just me or it seems like network companies just want to sell you something you something that most don't need ?

I'll try to simplify things a bit...

Let's say we have an N600 class dual band AP, so it's a 2 radio, 2 stream device - N300@5GHz with wide channels...

When we add another MIMO stream, we have to add another radio - and that extra stream is about 3dB of coding gain in the digital domain, and the extra radio adds about 2-3 dB of gain in the Analog Domain - which added up, is about 5 dB or so of additional gain that one gets by going up a class..

This is better range perhaps, but more importantly, better speeds at a given range - and since an MIMO AP is always MIMO, that gain is fixed - even if one has a 3-stream/3-radio AP and a single stream/radio client - because those streams are combined at the client, and you have not 1, not 2, but three radios receiving data from that client..

Going to 4-steams is a more, but not 25 percent more, but it's still more...

Add 11ac to the mix, with higher order modulation, the gains are even higher...

Adding to that - the Router/AP System on Chip, in order to support the higher speeds, normally will get some more RAM, which is always good, and more RAM, more room for client state tables - so more clients can be supported as well with the Router is doing NAT (which most do).

Higher CPU speed helps out across the board - we all want MOAR, lol

The newer WiFi chips in an AC1900 class and later also help out - even if one isn't doing MU-MIMO and the like, the extra horsepower, and more importantly, better WiFi chipset firmware, is going to be a better experience for 11g/11a/11n clients, not just 11ac.

So - it's a better class of router, a better class of AP in general...

So let's say we only have a 50Mbps WAN connection - these AC1900 class devices will get right to the limit, older devices might or might not, and you still get the benefit of better performance on the LAN/WLAN side.

AC1900 class, for the reasons I mention above - they're the best bang for the buck at the moment - I can't really recommend going lower as this is false economy on the long tail of pricing, esp, when one can pick up some AC1900 class devices at the 100-120 (USD) price range...

 

[Subzero89]

It's a stretch but I see your points. But according to some stuff I read a solid N900 router and speeds under 150Mbps it's a tough sell to a non enthusiast with negiable pluses.

I have to upgrade I dont have a choice, but if I had a solid N900 router no way I would upgrade yet.

 

[L&LD]

That's lots of assuming on your part.
LOL on the part of "makes it better read Web pages"

Let's just admit it for the average user they not even saturating the Wireless N.

Not really. Just normal assumptions for most people that are in router shopping mode.

You may be indifferent to lower latency responsiveness, but many can notice it and will pay much more than a modest $60 increase.

You're missing the point most are trying to make here. WiFi is a time shared medium. N Class WiFi and AC Class WiFi are noticeable by mere humans (even with only N Class clients).

Pick the cheapest model you think is equivalent and I'm sure you'll be pleased with your decision.

However, if you can compare in your actual network an entry level AC class router vs. a class leading AC class model (RT-AC68U or above), then you will know for sure what you are missing and if it will be worth it for you.

Right now? You think you know by comparing a few specifications. Those are a far cry from what you'll actually notice in the real world.

 

[Subzero89]

Would a Archer C9 or a Netgear R6400 Suffice ? What one you get and why ? Also is it a big deal if the Router is not WIFI certified, it only has a AC draft in place ? May not be saying that last part right but you know what I mean.

 

[System Error Message]

In a simpler explanation aside from the better chips giving better range and throughput even for older protocols and even if you dont have devices that can use it and your internet speed hasnt broken wireless N speeds theres still the LAN side of things and the practical throughput you get. You may think that just because your internet speed isnt faster than 150Mb/s doesnt mean that wireless N of 1 radio gives you 150Mb/s, the practical rates are much lower.

More CPU, more RAM helps as well and it means if you upgrade your internet or if your ISP improves their existing packages than all of a sudden the wireless N router that you have just bought cannot keep up and it becomes a waste of money. So if a wireless AC router is in a reasonable price range and within your budget even if it costs twice as much as wireless N it is definitely dual band (i rarely ever saw dual band wifi N clients), has better hardware to keep up, is much faster and if you do get better internet and wireless AC capable clients than you wont need to spend money again. Those who had their old wrt54gl which cant keep up anymore usually run 3rd party firmware so they have a use of being a mini server for some tasks that stock firmware doesnt provide but not everyone runs 3rd party firmware and uses their router as a mini server.

AC1900 isnt draft AC, this isnt like wifi N. in order for a wifi router to be allowed to be sold/distributed it has to be WIFI certified. Only developer devices dont have to be WIFI certified as they have a warning of not to be used in a normal environment so there isnt going to be a wifi AP that isnt wifi certified (wifi certification doesnt exist for the unlicensed band, its whether or not it follows wifi specs and it has to in order for it to work). So there isnt draft wifi for AC anymore. wireless AC has existed for lifetimes (tech wise) so there isnt going to be any draft products.

Even horrible ISPs like virgin media who distribute their horrible superhub include the usual gigabit LAN, wifi AC, dual core CPU, more ram than last gen even though it runs horribly so buying a last gen device is a waste of money unless your budget is very low and you're living off previous gen tech.

 

[Subzero89]

I don't remember which router it is but there was one I was looking at and I remember it said not WiFi certified yet, I was wondering if that matters when deciding to buy a new router ? Thanks

 

[thiggins]

Just wondering why you regulars don't refer people to the many resources available on SmallNetBuilder when answering these questions.

This article was done some time ago to address the very question of whether AC routers help non AC devices. The answer is yes.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...oes-an-ac-router-improve-n-device-performance

"Which is better questions" is what the Router Ranker is for. You can even look at ranking by 2.4 and 5 GHz wireless range.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/rankers/router/ranking/AC1900/rev8/23

 

[Nullity]

Just wondering why you regulars don't refer people to the many resources available on SmallNetBuilder when answering these questions.

This article was done some time ago to address the very question of whether AC routers help non AC devices. The answer is yes.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...oes-an-ac-router-improve-n-device-performance

"Which is better questions" is what the Router Ranker is for. You can even look at ranking by 2.4 and 5 GHz wireless range.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/rankers/router/ranking/AC1900/rev8/23

I guess because I feel no allegience to SNB proper. I feel like I am part of the forum, but completely separate from the main site. Maybe try to get more forumites involved in the main site or integrate them somehow?

I guess the lack of peer review is also a concern on the main site. Regardless of your objectivity, I enjoy seeing public criticism get responses by the author on major sites.

 

[Sethr]

Arguably a poor return on investment given the price premium of a name brand 11ac router.

My humble Samsung S6 phone gets 110Mbps down and 10Mbps up, one room away, using speedtest.net. My desktop PC with gigE wired does no better. The router is a low cost ASUS RTN56U http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320062

$129.00 for an ASUS RT-AC68W isn't really a premium price for name brand as I see it. YMMV.

My Blackberry Passport does better than what that Samsung S6 is reading. So you're right I staying with the lower end models.

 

[Subzero89]

Just wondering why you regulars don't refer people to the many resources available on SmallNetBuilder when answering these questions.

This article was done some time ago to address the very question of whether AC routers help non AC devices. The answer is yes.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...oes-an-ac-router-improve-n-device-performance

"Which is better questions" is what the Router Ranker is for. You can even look at ranking by 2.4 and 5 GHz wireless range.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/rankers/router/ranking/AC1900/rev8/23

I know those are available for reading and a good starting point, but those articles are not the be all end all on the matter, and it's not always agreed upon.

Just providing someone with links and say read this ! then what's the point of a forum, I still want people opinions and discuss it with them.

 

[thiggins]

I guess because I feel no allegience to SNB proper. I feel like I am part of the forum, but completely separate from the main site. Maybe try to get more forumites involved in the main site or integrate them somehow?

You will see better integration soon. You should realize that without SmallNetBuilder, there would be no SNBForums. The forums does not support itself financially.

I guess the lack of peer review is also a concern on the main site. Regardless of your objectivity, I enjoy seeing public criticism get responses by the author on major sites.

I don't understand this comment. I respond to all questions directed to me about anything published on SmallNetBuilder.

 

[thiggins]

I know those are available for reading and a good starting point, but those articles are not the be all end all on the matter, and it's not always agreed upon.

Just providing someone with links and say read this ! then what's the point of a forum, I still want people opinions and discuss it with them.

I didn't say the articles were and Charts are the authority on the subject. But they contain fact-based information that should at least be part of the discussion.

 

[Nullity]

...

I don't understand this comment. I respond to all questions directed to me about anything published on SmallNetBuilder.

I did not mean to criticize your methods. I simply prefer forums and the inherent collaboration and many, instant perspectives it offers.


I really only visit Hacker News, snbforums, pfSense forums, and a little of reddit...

 

[TonyH]

Well your not the average user I guess, that's cool.

Little OT, I guess you never tried OC'ing anything? I am just an average user but I always like to have more than what I need within my means for everything in life. I have Netgear R7800 at present which replaced Linksys EA8500. Always some fun playing with new stuffs.

 

[Subzero89]

Little OT, I guess you never tried OC'ing anything? I am just an average user but I always like to have more than what I need within my means for everything in life. I have Netgear R7800 at present which replaced Linksys EA8500. Always some fun playing with new stuffs.

I OC'ed my Sandy bridge 2500K 3.3GHz to a stable 4.5GHz with aftermarket cooling solution.

 

[stevech]

$129.00 for an ASUS RT-AC68W isn't really a premium price for name brand as I see it. YMMV.

My Blackberry Passport does better than what that Samsung S6 is reading. So you're right I staying with the lower end models.

Well, I've used 802.11 for decades and I'm an RF engineer learned on MIMO/OFDM and what marketing hype is.
I get what I need for $100 or less. Used to be big Linksys fan; now ASUS. Cradlepoint too, until smartphones (Androids) on Verizon provide no extra charge WiFi hot spot. Last 2 here were ASUS dual band under $100.

 

[JoeJoe]

I OC'ed my Sandy bridge 2500K 3.3GHz to a stable 4.5GHz with aftermarket cooling solution.

Why?

Chrome/IE/Firefox doesn't need that speed.

Why would you waste money/energy on that?

Makes no sense....

 

[TonyH]

Why?

Chrome/IE/Firefox doesn't need that speed.

Why would you waste money/energy on that?

Makes no sense....

Conflict in p;

Why?

Chrome/IE/Firefox doesn't need that speed.

Why would you waste money/energy on that?

Makes no sense....

LOL!

 

[Subzero89]

Why?

Chrome/IE/Firefox doesn't need that speed.

Why would you waste money/energy on that?

Makes no sense....

Wow your missing the point, anyway it was for gaming getting more fps.