Is it possible to build a Wifi Mesh with a different brand of Router?

[drinkingbird]

The problem is the following: I am switching to 5G Home Internet (cellular), there is only one location that gets the best signal, the main router AX88U is at an opposite location from the 5G gateway's location. Even though the 5G gateway has Wifi (it is a router), I have turned it off and I am using it as a gateway/modem, the only client connected to the 5G gateway is the main router AX88U.

I don't have ethernet connection (cabling) between the 5G gateway and the AX88U router, located on different rooms, opposite sides of the house, but I do have coaxial end points on both rooms, that's the reason I purchased the MOCA devices (great suggestion) to connect them via the existing coax cabling.

To summarize, the Internet comes in from the 5G gateway, through the MOCA devices goes to the AX88U router, all the end user, IOT, etc. devices at home, wired and wireless ONLY connect to the AX88U router. The AX86U wasn't being used because I upgraded to the AX88U because I needed more LAN ports (4 vs 8). So it is not a big deal to use it as a Media Bridge, I would say is great because I can use it for something, if not it will be on the closet, turned off.

How I see things, I always try to minimize the points of failure, with the Coaxial/MOCA solution I have 2 points of failure, each MOCA device, the benefits are the performance and no wifi signal coming from the 5G gateway, because I use ethernet from the 5G gateway to MOCA 1, then ethernet from MOCA 2 to the main router AX88U.

Regarding the Media Bridge, I have only 1 point of failure, the AX86U, but it has the disadvantage that I have to turn on the wifi signal on the 5G gateway, it makes the gateway to run hotter, and I have more interference inside the house, it is only the 5G Wifi signal, I have turned off 2.4G.

As you can see is a simple architecture, I don't think a diagram is needed, what are you thoughts on the two options? Thank you for all the help.

NOTE: For testing purposes and troubleshooting, I have disabled the Dual WAN

I'd take two moca devices over a wifi connection any day. Faster, more stable, and lower latency. You can use the 86U as a node and get more coverage if needed, or spread your devices out across the two, or use it as a media bridge for some device that doesn't get good wifi signal, etc.

In reality you have more points of failure now, the wifi on the ISP router, the wifi on the Asus, the cable between the two asus, etc. If you have the option for wired backhaul, that is always the way to go.

By the way, the 4 extra ports in the 88 are generally problematic. A cheap $10 to $15 switch hanging off the 86U would be much better. If you're still within the return window I'd swap and save some money.

 

[drinkingbird]

Well you're going to have to put on your big boy pants and find some way to get a cable over there...

MOCA and/or PowerLine's might do the job...

Alternately - you can use the THMI gateway as a WAN device, and hook up a mesh network behind it, but note that for IPv4 you'll be double-natted, and since THMI doesn't do IPv6-PD, you'll be stuck with IPv4 behind the gateway....

They already have MOCA running and it works fine but apparently some issue with dual wan made them switch back to wireless.

 

[Logi]

I'd take two moca devices over a wifi connection any day. Faster, more stable, and lower latency. You can use the 86U as a node and get more coverage if needed, or spread your devices out across the two, or use it as a media bridge for some device that doesn't get good wifi signal, etc.

In reality you have more points of failure now, the wifi on the ISP router, the wifi on the Asus, the cable between the two asus, etc. If you have the option for wired backhaul, that is always the way to go.

By the way, the 4 extra ports in the 88 are generally problematic. A cheap $10 to $15 switch hanging off the 86U would be much better. If you're still within the return window I'd swap and save some money.

I am aiming at the MOCA solution, Dual WAN disabled, I hope it will be fine now, it seems normal for T-Mobile 5G internet to have some micro outages during the night, usually just one around 2-3am, tower maintenance, or something like that, I don't use the internet a that time, so no big deal for me, we will see. Thank you for all the tips and feedback.

 

[drinkingbird]

I am aiming at the MOCA solution, Dual WAN disabled, I hope it will be fine now, it seems normal for T-Mobile 5G internet to have some micro outages during the night, usually just one around 2-3am, tower maintenance, or something like that, I don't use the internet a that time, so no big deal for me, we will see. Thank you for all the tips and feedback.

I'd get the single WAN running stable then look at the various failover scripts etc out there. But sounds like you'll be ditching the other ISP anyway so that isn't an issue?

No idea if the TMHI device can be put in bridge mode (suspect not) but if so I'd do that also to eliminate one more potential point of failure. Or run it as your router and the Asus as just your access point.

 

[Logi]

I'd get the single WAN running stable then look at the various failover scripts etc out there. But sounds like you'll be ditching the other ISP anyway so that isn't an issue?

No idea if the TMHI device can be put in bridge mode (suspect not) but if so I'd do that also to eliminate one more potential point of failure. Or run it as your router and the Asus as just your access point.

Correct, Frontier I am waiting for the contract to expire in the next 6 months, so no big deal no dual WAN.

the 5G gateway (TMHI), you can't change anything, super limited, there are some scripts out there that allow me to turn off wifi, so it is being use as a modem, it has only 1 device connected to it, the AX88U, there are other options like the Netgear Orbit 5G that comes with a satellite unit, I would say a similar solution with the 2 Asus routers in media bridge mode, probably a more elegant implementation, but at a cost, > $1K, so for now MOCA is the way to go.

 

[drinkingbird]

Correct, Frontier I am waiting for the contract to expire in the next 6 months, so no big deal no dual WAN.

the 5G gateway (TMHI), you can't change anything, super limited, there are some scripts out there that allow me to turn off wifi, so it is being use as a modem, it has only 1 device connected to it, the AX88U, there are other options like the Netgear Orbit 5G that comes with a satellite unit, I would say a similar solution with the 2 Asus routers in media bridge mode, probably a more elegant implementation, but at a cost, > $1K, so for now MOCA is the way to go.

I mean if you're going to have it for 6 months you could get dual WAN working, or even could hook up the spare asus to it and have some stuff use that and others use t-mobile. Personally I wouldn't go 5G over fiber but it all comes down to what you do online and whether the latency/varying speed is a problem or not. I have Verizon FIOS 300/300 for $30 a month, not sure what Frontier's rates are like. I've had FIOS about 10 years now and they keep increasing speed and lowering price so no reason for me to even look at anything else.

If the TMO gateway has to run in router mode I'd just run the Asus in AP mode connected to the TMHI gateway via MOCA. That is the simplest and most reliable setup.

Definitely do not spend money on Orbis, that is just wireless backhaul (with the satellite being a repeater at 1/2 speed) which you were doing before, you don't want that, hardwired is the way to go, or worst case the media bridge setup with the Asus will be the same idea and probably much better performance. But with MOCA you have no reason to do any of that.

 

[Logi]

I mean if you're going to have it for 6 months you could get dual WAN working, or even could hook up the spare asus to it and have some stuff use that and others use t-mobile. Personally I wouldn't go 5G over fiber but it all comes down to what you do online and whether the latency/varying speed is a problem or not. I have Verizon FIOS 300/300 for $30 a month, not sure what Frontier's rates are like. I've had FIOS about 10 years now and they keep increasing speed and lowering price so no reason for me to even look at anything else.

If the TMO gateway has to run in router mode I'd just run the Asus in AP mode connected to the TMHI gateway via MOCA. That is the simplest and most reliable setup.

Definitely do not spend money on Orbis, that is just wireless backhaul (with the satellite being a repeater at 1/2 speed) which you were doing before, you don't want that, hardwired is the way to go, or worst case the media bridge setup with the Asus will be the same idea and probably much better performance. But with MOCA you have no reason to do any of that.

The problem with AP mode is that I have no access to any configuration on the TMHI gateway, I cannot change the DHCP, or have fixed IPs, etc., I know that with AP mode I will not have double NAT, and it will be a cleaner implementation, but it is so limited

 

[drinkingbird]

The problem with AP mode is that I have no access to any configuration on the TMHI gateway, I cannot change the DHCP, or have fixed IPs, etc., I know that with AP mode I will not have double NAT, and it will be a cleaner implementation, but it is so limited

Ah, yeah if you need the features of the Asus then double router is fine. You can actually disable NAT on the Asus, but it would require the ability to put a static route in the TMHI which sounds like you probably can't do. Double NAT isn't a big deal, especially on 5G where the latency is already higher anyway. If the TMHI lets you set a DMZ device then you can put the Asus WAN IP in there, which partially disables double NAT in a way, but if not, not a big deal (especially if you don't need inbound connections/port mapping etc).

 

[Logi]

Ah, yeah if you need the features of the Asus then double router is fine. You can actually disable NAT on the Asus, but it would require the ability to put a static route in the TMHI which sounds like you probably can't do. Double NAT isn't a big deal, especially on 5G where the latency is already higher anyway. If the TMHI lets you set a DMZ device then you can put the Asus WAN IP in there, which partially disables double NAT in a way, but if not, not a big deal (especially if you don't need inbound connections/port mapping etc).

I don't play games, I don't need inbound traffic, I don't need public IP, my use is very basic, WFH mostly, Zoom, Cisco Webex, Teams meetings, etc. I haven't noticed any major performance impact with the double NAT compared to Frontier. As a matter of fact, CGNAT and no public IP, it is a little safer because I don't have people scanning my IP, so for my needs TMHI works fine, Frontier Fiber is over kill, and more than double the cost, and with TMHI I get 400-500/20-40 speeds, that for me is more than enough, I used to have not long ago, Comcast 60/10 and everything worked.

 

[Logi]

Ah, yeah if you need the features of the Asus then double router is fine. You can actually disable NAT on the Asus, but it would require the ability to put a static route in the TMHI which sounds like you probably can't do. Double NAT isn't a big deal, especially on 5G where the latency is already higher anyway. If the TMHI lets you set a DMZ device then you can put the Asus WAN IP in there, which partially disables double NAT in a way, but if not, not a big deal (especially if you don't need inbound connections/port mapping etc).

Another option is to buy a third party 5G Router, but they are more than $500, without any of the Asus I have, I would have gone for that, but I have too much invested already in Asus infrastructure.

 

[drinkingbird]

Another option is to buy a third party 5G Router, but they are more than $500, without any of the Asus I have, I would have gone for that, but I have too much invested already in Asus infrastructure.

Assuming the TMHI device is included in the cost (no savings to get rid of it) then yeah there would be no sense in doing that.

Honestly I'd return or sell one of the asus and just get a cheap TP Link or Netgear switch for your additional port needs, recoup some of your money. But your call obviously. My cheap TP link switch gets better throughput LAN to LAN than the Asus (not by much, 950 vs 930 megs), the built in switches in these home routers are not anything great.

 

[Logi]

Assuming the TMHI device is included in the cost (no savings to get rid of it) then yeah there would be no sense in doing that.

Honestly I'd return or sell one of the asus and just get a cheap TP Link or Netgear switch for your additional port needs, recoup some of your money. But your call obviously. My cheap TP link switch gets better throughput LAN to LAN than the Asus (not by much, 950 vs 930 megs), the built in switches in these home routers are not anything great

I cannot return it and it is always good to have a router handy as a backup, it is already a sunk cost

 

[drinkingbird]

I cannot return it and it is always good to have a router handy as a backup, it is already a sunk cost

Fair enough, just a suggestion if it was possible. I'd probably manage to find some use for it, I hate having spare stuff around not doing anything

 

[sfx2000]

Assuming the TMHI device is included in the cost (no savings to get rid of it) then yeah there would be no sense in doing that.

With THMI - the Gateway is rent-free - included in the month to month costs...

There are a few vendors these days - Nokia, Arcadyan, Sagemcom - Nokia units seems to be the better ones...

 

[drinkingbird]

With THMI - the Gateway is rent-free - included in the month to month costs...

There are a few vendors these days - Nokia, Arcadyan, Sagemcom - Nokia units seems to be the better ones...

Heh rent free vs included, just another one of the games. FIOS has started forcing it too, they added $20 a month to new plans and the router (formerly $15) is now "included". Luckily I'm grandfathered in, and supposedly you can still get them to do the old rate with no router if you call and complain. Technically it skirts the laws about ISPs not being allowed to force you to rent their stuff, I guess this is the loophole.

 

[Logi]

I was finally able to reuse an existing Cat 5e cable pre-installed in the house, it is a point to point cable between the internet gateway/modem and the AX88U router, there is a patch panel in between the two points, plus the respective ethernet cables from the RJ45 jack on the walls to the respective devices on each room.

Using a tool I measured the cable length and it is around 106 ft (32 meters), I am not a fan of Cat 5e, it is kind of old, I know I can get up to 100 meters, but that's a direct cable, without the patch panel and the jack's connections, is it too long to get a good performance and latency between devices?

 

[drinkingbird]

I was finally able to reuse an existing Cat5e cable pre-installed in the house, it is a point to point cable between the internet gateway/modem and the AX88U router, there is a patch panel in between the two points, plus the respective ethernet cables from the RH45 jack on the walls to the respective devices on each room.

Using a tool I measured the cable length and it is around 106 ft (32 meters), I am not a fan of Cat5e, it is kind of old, I know I can get up to 100 meters, but that's a direct cable with patch panel and the jack's connections, is it too long to get good performance and latency between devices?

You're perfectly fine at that distance up to 2.5 gig, probably even more. Cat 5e is still relevant, no worries there.