Killer AX1650

[DigitizedMe]

I'm thinking about getting a Killer AX1650 to tinker with and do a little benchmarking:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q4YYQC2/?tag=snbforums-20

Considering Killer's AC1550 card is still $30, it doesn't seem like AX has much of a new adopter fee. I just wanted to check if anyone is aware of any other AX adapters on the market yet or would be interested in some file transfer/stability benchmarks?

I currently have an AC7260 and it's always been a problematic card.

 

[thiggins]

Looks like this is an Intel AX200 card. It's interesting that it is out before Intel is offering the card themselves.

The interesting benchmarks would tend to be on 2.4 GHz, not 5. Even with an AX router, this card is likely to perform like an Intel AC9260, i.e. 160 MHz capable 11ac card.

Like with MU-MIMO, you need multiple AX clients to see improved bandwidth use. Only instead of requiring 2 devices minimum to see an aggregate throughput gain, you may need 4 AX devices to see OFDMA provide any benefit.

What router are you going to benchmark with?

 

[RMerlin]

Looks like someone had jumped the gun, that link no longer returns any hit.

Nevermind. Amazon is being silly, and automatically redirecting me to Amazon Canada's website...

I wish someone would hit Lenovo on the head over their use of a BIOS-enforced whitelist, preventing any kind of upgrade.

 

[DigitizedMe]

Oh jeeze, I won't be buying 4 cards! I think I'll stick with AC for now!

I'm not even using 160mhz bandwidth! I have it set to 40mhz currently. Once I see how stable my AC7260 is with 40, I'll set it to auto/160mhz. This card has always been a pain, but it is a work provided laptop.

I'd be benching using an AX88U. Will update sig soon.

 

[avtella]

Oh jeeze, I won't be buying 4 cards! I think I'll stick with AC for now!

I'm not even using 160mhz bandwidth! I have it set to 40mhz currently. Once I see how stable my AC7260 is with 40, I'll set it to auto/160mhz. This card has always been a pain, but it is a work provided laptop.

I'd be benching using an AX88U. Will update sig soon.

I doubt you will get more than 20-25% gain (5Ghz) over the 9260ac in real world tests with an ax router, and little to no difference with an ac router. On HT160 with the 9260ac doing transfers to the router (Netgear RAX80 - same hardware as AX88U) connected Samsung T5 USB SSD I could hit a pretty stable 140 MB/s (1120 Mbps) on reads. USB is the only way you will get over gigabit speeds other than wireless client to client transfers as the RAX80 and AX88U only have gigabit lan ports.

I ordered the 1650 for testing, mine comes on May 1st. But yeah as mentioned above it’s just a rebadged Intel AX200 in-fact it actually does say Intel AX200 in small font.

Usually I prefer not to get Killer branded versions of cards as I feel their only true product is that atrocious QoS software which is more a bane than a boon for most. But Intel hasn’t released the originalbranded version yet for side sales and no factories are selling on the side either till maybe next month.

I’ll posts some results next week, I’ll be testing with the RAX80 and RAX120.

 

[RMerlin]

Asus also has a similar card on the way (saw a few FCC applications for it), if you don't want the Killer middleware.

 

[avtella]

Yeah the AX20x standard and cnvi versions for inclusion in Asus laptops. Should still work regardless of brand. I wonder if system integrators actually make any firmware changes on their end, to better suite the signal/antenna characteristics in various laptops.

 

[RMerlin]

Yeah the AX20x standard and cnvi versions for inclusion in Asus laptops. Should still work regardless of brand. I wonder if system integrators actually make any firmware changes on their end, to better suite the signal/antenna characteristics in various laptops.

Killer possibly has a heavy amount of their "secret sauce" in there, if it's anything like their Ethernet NICs. Quite a few Killer NIC users resolved a lot of their issues by switching to a more generic driver.

 

[avtella]

The WiFi drivers are actually the same as stock Intel (1550 aka Intel 9260ac) & Qualcomm drivers (1535/1435 aka QCA6174A), Killer doesn’t really tweak them. Only difference is that additional QoS software which a lot of people disable or uninstall to prevent issues. If any driver issues arise Killer literally can do nothing but complain and wait for Intel and Qualcomm to fix them. I did notice however the Killer 1550 gets the new drivers before they are released for the Intel branded one. Almost like Intel is using Killer owners as beta testers lol.

The one hardware difference I do notice is that even though both the Killer 1435 & 1535 are both rebranded Qualcomm QCA6174A cards, the 1535 has 2 additional amplifiers for 5Ghz.

 

[RMerlin]

Intel cards from other manufacturers are now also appearing on eBay and Aliexpress, if anyone wants a cheaper option.

 

[avtella]

Provantage has the Intel AX200 for $13.06, I ordered two today. Much cheaper than eBay and at least you can return them quickly if you get a defective one if you live in the US/Canada.

Funny thing on Amazon I placed my first AX1650 order on 4/21 but that showed as “will arrive on 5/3” and was not shipped yet. Then I placed a second order on 4/27 and that shows as “will arrive 4/29” and was shipped yesterday. I ended up canceling the first. Not sure how that worked, looks like preorder doesn’t mean first come first serve lol.

 

[sfx2000]

I wish someone would hit Lenovo on the head over their use of a BIOS-enforced whitelist, preventing any kind of upgrade.

Not just Lenovo... HP and Dell are equally as bad sometimes (depends on the product line, biz vs consumer)

 

[sfx2000]

Looks like this is an Intel AX200 card. It's interesting that it is out before Intel is offering the card themselves.

The interesting benchmarks would tend to be on 2.4 GHz, not 5. Even with an AX router, this card is likely to perform like an Intel AC9260, i.e. 160 MHz capable 11ac card.

Like with MU-MIMO, you need multiple AX clients to see improved bandwidth use. Only instead of requiring 2 devices minimum to see an aggregate throughput gain, you may need 4 AX devices to see OFDMA provide any benefit.

What router are you going to benchmark with?

I don't think it'll matter - 11ax does not and generally will not deliver what is promised in Marketing speak...

I've mentioned this before that folks are going to be disappointed if looking for a big increase in performance.

Wave 1 802.11ac was actually very good - cleaned up a lot of cruft left over from the 11n battles - 11ac Wave 2 added additional complexity, and 11ax does even more...

Consider 11ac Wave 2 features - MU and 160MHz - what did that actually gain - to be honest, not much.

11ac Wave 1 was very close to the Shannon Limit at 80Mhz in 5GHz - the rest is looking for pennies and nickels in the parking lot.

 

[avtella]

Not just Lenovo... HP and Dell are equally as bad sometimes (depends on the product line, biz vs consumer)

Dell is pretty chill about upgrades, when they replaced my Inspiron 7567 with a 7577 for free for a very minor issue, they returned the parts I upgraded seperately including the WiFi card. They said they don’t consider upgrades as voiding warranty. We have numerous Latitudes and even with consumer units they’re pretty lax in regards to self upgrades.

I’ve upgraded cards of Latitudes/Precisions as old as some of the 2011 models (ie Latitude E6420) without running into any white lists.

Infact the AX200s and Killer AX1650 I ordered are going into a Dell XPS 13 9350, Inspiron 7577 and a Latitude E7450. The only one I can’t upgrade is our XPS 13 9370 as the Killer 1435 (QCA6174A) is soldered in the newer 13” XPS units. 15” XPS units are still upgradable.

As for Lenovo and HP I thought they both stopped whitelisting?


When I do test the card, I agree with you @sfx2000 I honestly expect to see maybe a 20-25% improvement in the 5Ghz band. As for HT 160 though (9260ac) it improved transfer rates from 80-84 MB/s (640-672 Mbps) to 140 MB/s (1120 Mbps) when doing transfers to my Dell 7577 from an external Samsung T5 SSD connected to the RAX80. Testing was done one floor below the router’s location. That was the only good way to bypass the Ethernet bottleneck and show how much of an increase you can get with HT160. Also MU showed modest increase in overall throughout in my testing with the R7800.

 

[RMerlin]

As for Lenovo and HP I thought they both stopped whitelisting?

In Lenovo's case I never heard official word that they had, so every M2 card reseller makes sure to mention their card won't work in Lenovo products. Might be worth poking at them to check tho, at least with my specific product.

 

[thiggins]

avtella's test results of the Intel AX200 card have been moved to a new thread.