Leaning Towards ReadyNAS... Opinions?

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

So, I've been talking to helpful folks over on the ReadyNAS forums (some of which I see are here as well!) and I am setting in on getting a ReadyNAS Ultra 4, I think. I'm pretty much sold on the whole idea that I am going to buy a ReadyNAS Ultra 4. But, I was wondering if I could ask some of the folks that already have them, why do you use a ReadyNAS over the alternatives? Or, if you picked something else over a ReadyNAS such as the NVX, I'd be curious on that count too.

I am not sure if I am making good sense of the specs, but it seems like the new ReadyNASes are located somewhere in the middle on hardware. The HP MediaSmart Servers are cheaper for what they provide (i.e. for $600 or so, you'd get a dual core Pentium-based one running at 2.5GHz). On the other hand, the new Ultras use Atom chips, which seem to put them ahead of the ARM chips in the Synology units of a similar price point (at least in theory, I realize OS optimization will make a big difference).

On the other hand, looking at Synology and QNAP, it looks like they might be more innovative on things like adding AJAX to the administrative interface (which can be a helpful thing, though not necessarily so).

My goal is primarily performance for moving RAW images and doing Time Machine backups, but also with an eye to features such as AFP and iSCSI that will allow me to get the NAS to work well with Macs. (I know the HP doesn't have either of those, though HP does make it a point to support Time Machine...)

In any case, I'm interested in the thoughts of those who are using these systems.

 

[claykin]

I think you got my opinion over on the Readynas forums.

Whether you go with the Ultra 4 or the NVX, you're getting a solid box with good performance. Is it top notch performance, no, but very competitive.

Have you tried posting on the QNAP or Synology forums to see what their users say?

To sum it up, I take the Netgear forums where the support and development staff are actively involved, better warranty and overall robustness over the QNAP and Syno offerings. Doesn't mean the others are bad, I just weigh high on the low stress meter. Too many years chasing vaporware, beta product (thats really alpha), and companies that make it too hard to obtain help and repair.

 

[thiggins]

NETGEAR does have an edge on Synology and QNAP for distribution and support. But you now have the option of Cisco for D510 Atom based QNAPs (for all intents and purposes).

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

Thanks to both of you. I haven't tried the other forums much. I think I did post to the Synology forum once and didn't get any response, which was not terribly encouraging.

Since Netgear's prices right now seem so competitive, I'm leaning towards going with my gut and sticking with the ReadyNAS idea.

Incidentally, as far as I can tell, other than Drobo, it doesn't look like the other NASes have anything as robust as X-RAID2 for expansion, do they?

Anyone on this forum know of something they love about Synology, QNAP or whatever else that I will surely miss with a shiny new Ultra 4 on my desk (I did pre-order one, but it hasn't shipped yet, so I could still get cold feet)?

 

[HDClown]

I'm a QNAP owner, TS-459 Pro (Dual Core Atom D510)

Since the new Ultra models from Netgear did not exist, they weren't even something I could consider. So I had to shop Synology, QNAP (didn't really ever consider Thecus) When it came to Synology vs QNAP, what sold me on the QNAP is that there is a lot more "under the hood" tinkering going on based on what I observed of both Synology and QNAP forums. I also liked that QNAP rolled a good amount of their own packages (QPKG) for applications not available as IPKG's via Optware. That provides extra functionality without having to tinker with it yourself. So, to me, it was the best of both worlds on the QNAP. You could go all hands off, or get involved with customizing the Linux system underneath.

Compared to Synology, some of the highest: QNAP hardware is all metal vs plastic, and you can get dual GigE ports with 802.3ad link aggregation in a 4 drive model, and they have full EXT4 support already. QNAP already has an iPhone/iPod Touch App, and just released an Andorid beta. I hear Synology will have these apps and EXT4 in their next major firmware release. QNAP offers more external USB And eSATA ports in general across their entire device range as compared to Synology, which may be important to someone depending on how many external devices they want to connect for backup purposes.

Biggest Downside of the QNAP is cost. My 4 drive TS-459 is almost as expensive as the DS1010+, and it's way more expensive than the prices on the Ultra models. QNAP does not have a fancy name for their flexible RAID but you can do online RAID expansion and migration. As far as I can tell, it's the same functionality idea X-RAID and SHR, except it's not automatic (you have to click a couple buttons). You can read about it here if your interested: http://www.qnap.com/pro_features_RLM.asp. QNAP's expansion does require you to replace all drives you plan to replace and let the array rebuild BEFORE expanding the space. I know the new feature of X-RAID2 is that as soon as 1 disk is replaced, the volume is expanded. I do not know for certain if QNAP lets you do this. It may require all disks to be the same size first before expanding.

I see the Ultra 4 is $600, but it only has Single Core Atom processor. The QNAP TS-439 Pro II is $800, and that's with the same Single Core Atom. The TS-459 Pro can be had for $879 with Dual Core Processor. But then you have the Synology DS411+ is $650 with the dual core processor. So by price alone, the DS411+ could be considered the better deal on price to performance, but that's only a small piece of the pie of course.

At the end of the day, If you stick with an Atom based Netgear, Synology, or QNAP unit, I don't think you'll go wrong either way. All 3 of these guys are in a race against each other put out the next great software feature or come out with the next concept in home/SMB NAS devices and someone is alwaysing leapfrogging the other on some unqiue feature.

 

[claykin]

I'm a QNAP owner, TS-459 Pro (Dual Core Atom D510)

Since the new Ultra models from Netgear did not exist, they weren't even something I could consider. So I had to shop Synology, QNAP (didn't really ever consider Thecus) When it came to Synology vs QNAP, what sold me on the QNAP is that there is a lot more "under the hood" tinkering going on based on what I observed of both Synology and QNAP forums. I also liked that QNAP rolled a good amount of their own packages (QPKG) for applications not available as IPKG's via Optware. That provides extra functionality without having to tinker with it yourself. So, to me, it was the best of both worlds on the QNAP. You could go all hands off, or get involved with customizing the Linux system underneath.

Compared to Synology, some of the highest: QNAP hardware is all metal vs plastic, and you can get dual GigE ports with 802.3ad link aggregation in a 4 drive model, and they have full EXT4 support already. QNAP already has an iPhone/iPod Touch App, and just released an Andorid beta. I hear Synology will have these apps and EXT4 in their next major firmware release. QNAP offers more external USB And eSATA ports in general across their entire device range as compared to Synology, which may be important to someone depending on how many external devices they want to connect for backup purposes.

Biggest Downside of the QNAP is cost. My 4 drive TS-459 is almost as expensive as the DS1010+, and it's way more expensive than the prices on the Ultra models. QNAP does not have a fancy name for their flexible RAID but you can do online RAID expansion and migration. As far as I can tell, it's the same functionality idea X-RAID and SHR, except it's not automatic (you have to click a couple buttons). You can read about it here if your interested: http://www.qnap.com/pro_features_RLM.asp. QNAP's expansion does require you to replace all drives you plan to replace and let the array rebuild BEFORE expanding the space. I know the new feature of X-RAID2 is that as soon as 1 disk is replaced, the volume is expanded. I do not know for certain if QNAP lets you do this. It may require all disks to be the same size first before expanding.

I see the Ultra 4 is $600, but it only has Single Core Atom processor. The QNAP TS-439 Pro II is $800, and that's with the same Single Core Atom. The TS-459 Pro can be had for $879 with Dual Core Processor. But then you have the Synology DS411+ is $650 with the dual core processor. So by price alone, the DS411+ could be considered the better deal on price to performance, but that's only a small piece of the pie of course.

At the end of the day, If you stick with an Atom based Netgear, Synology, or QNAP unit, I don't think you'll go wrong either way. All 3 of these guys are in a race against each other put out the next great software feature or come out with the next concept in home/SMB NAS devices and someone is alwaysing leapfrogging the other on some unqiue feature.

Well said. I'd like to add the warranty and support differences. Compare warranty and return process in the event your unit needs repair. Not all are created equally.

http://www.qnap.com/WarrantyFAQ.asp
http://www.synology.com/us/support/warranty.php

For the Readynas, I couldn't find a single page warranty statement covering all Readynas products, but basically Ultras have a 3 year and Business products such as the NVX and Pro have 5 year warranties. Netgear provides setup assistance for the first 90 days of ownership and then phone support is pretty much limited to hardware/firmware issues for the balance of the warranty. The standard warranty provides for a fairly quick repair and turnaround option and they even offer an advanced replacement and overnight ship options for a nominal fee. Netgear also offers optional service plans if you want next day turnaround, etc. so your costs are fixed for the duration of the warranty.

Then there's the forums.....Check them out and compare.

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

Thanks again, guys. I'm digging some more. I'm guessing I would have gone Synology if not for the NVX price drop and Ultra 4 release, because previously only the NV+ really fit my budget on the ReadyNAS line.

The qpkg and ipkg references HDClown made are intriguing. It looks like perhaps QNAP has a larger third party software ecosystem than Netgear does? Or am I missing something? Would ipkg run on the ReadyNAS units as well? I tried various Google searches to see if I could find an independent community of ReadyNAS addons, but didn't succeed.

I hadn't thought about it much, but it looks like some of these things would be really invaluable.

Hmm... perplexing.

 

[HDClown]

As best as I can tell, you can use IPKG's on a ReadyNAS. You need to install Optware to use IPKG's, so focus on looking into what's involved with getting Optware running on an x86 based ReadyNAS. Optware/IPKG's are not specific to one NAS. This is the home of Optware: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/Packages?from=Unslung.Packages

I have an old ReadyNAS 1100S purchased 5 years ago back before Netgear purchased Infrant, and back then, SSH on a ReadyNAS was not supported. There was a way to enable it, but the understanding was that you would basically be given zero support from Infrant, and if you called for support, you should very well expect them to tell you to factory reload your NAS before they will help. I don't know if any of this has changed, can someone else weigh in on this? Using Optware requires you to be able to SSH to the device.

In general, the community for add-ons for ReadyNAS seems to be the smallest when compared to Synology and QNAP.

 

[claykin]

Readynas community addons. Its not as small as you think.

http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=62

Netgear provides guides to enable some addons

http://www.readynas.com/?cat=75
http://www.readynas.com/?cat=16

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

Well, I almost switched gears over the apparently larger addon community with QNAP, but with the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer only $200 more than the ultra right now (and less than an Ultra 4-equivalent from QNAP), I decided to take the leap. I did buy it from Amazon, so I guess if it doesn't work well, I can always return it...

I may still look into Optware, though... It does look like there are some official ways to get SSH on the ReadyNAS now...

Thanks, guys!

 

[teknojnky]

QNAP's expansion does require you to replace all drives you plan to replace and let the array rebuild BEFORE expanding the space.

This is pretty much how most raid expansion works, rebuilds each disk then expands after sufficient disks have been replaced. It's often a time consuming process, sometimes taking over 8 hours to rebuild each disk depending on size and speed of the disks and system.

I know the new feature of X-RAID2 is that as soon as 1 disk is replaced, the volume is expanded. I do not know for certain if QNAP lets you do this. It may require all disks to be the same size first before expanding.

the original x-raid you had to replace all disks and then it would expand.

the x-raid2 that is on the x86 readynas, you must replace at least 2 disks to expand. It uses 2 raid layers to achieve this.

if you run dual redundancy (available on devices with 6 or more bay), then it would require replacing 4 drives to expand.

 

[claykin]

Well, I almost switched gears over the apparently larger addon community with QNAP, but with the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer only $200 more than the ultra right now (and less than an Ultra 4-equivalent from QNAP), I decided to take the leap. I did buy it from Amazon, so I guess if it doesn't work well, I can always return it...

I may still look into Optware, though... It does look like there are some official ways to get SSH on the ReadyNAS now...

Thanks, guys!

I think you'll enjoy your Pro Pioneer.

Root SSH has been available for a while. Phone support won't help you if its been installed. They'll make you default the NAS. So, lean on the Readynas forums for assistance if you SSH into the box. Most times the Jedi's can help without needing to call phone support.

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

I think you'll enjoy your Pro Pioneer.

Root SSH has been available for a while. Phone support won't help you if its been installed. They'll make you default the NAS. So, lean on the Readynas forums for assistance if you SSH into the box. Most times the Jedi's can help without needing to call phone support.

That sounds reasonable enough, the forums are very helpful. I'm quite excited to give it a whirl whenever my two hard disks decide to show up. All the other supplies came in -- even the UPS you recommended from Office Depot, which I ordered Friday.

Exciting!

Thanks again for your advice!

 

[beisser]

I think you'll enjoy your Pro Pioneer.

Root SSH has been available for a while. Phone support won't help you if its been installed. They'll make you default the NAS. So, lean on the Readynas forums for assistance if you SSH into the box. Most times the Jedi's can help without needing to call phone support.

not 100% true (anymore). currently support denies help if they determine that ssh-access was responsible for the problem. if it was not then they will help you anyway. only if you do stuff via ssh that caused the problem they will refuse to help.

 

[claykin]

not 100% true (anymore). currently support denies help if they determine that ssh-access was responsible for the problem. if it was not then they will help you anyway. only if you do stuff via ssh that caused the problem they will refuse to help.

Excellent. I hope all support reps received that memo.

 

[jerryk]

Well, I almost switched gears over the apparently larger addon community with QNAP, but with the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer only $200 more than the ultra right now (and less than an Ultra 4-equivalent from QNAP), I decided to take the leap. I did buy it from Amazon, so I guess if it doesn't work well, I can always return it...

I may still look into Optware, though... It does look like there are some official ways to get SSH on the ReadyNAS now...

Thanks, guys!

Enjoy your Pro Pioneer. I just got a Pro BE and am enjoying it. The performance is very impressive.

 

[grumpwurst]

I actually just joined after finding a lot of good information on this site. In fact, this site was the reason I decided to shelve the idea of purchasing a DroboFS as my NAS solution.

I wanted a network attached storage solution not for backup but for a place that I can work on files from multiple locations so performance was key.

I too an leaning toward the NETGEAR ReadyNAS product. More specifically the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer Edition. I don't think I need any of the business features that come with the Pro Business Edition (like Active Directory Support). Even though work related stuff might be on it (mainly java programming stuff) I don't need anything too fancy (now it would be cool if it at Subversion on it for version control...but I digress).

I read on the ReadyNAS site (www.readynas.com) that the Pro Pioneer Edition was specifically rolled out to be diskless and the Pro Business Edition would have models hardened with drives already in them.

I also noticed that on a few sites like Amazon you can find the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer Edition with drives in them for sale.

My question is this.....

Why is the price with the drives included so much significantly higher than if I bought the diskless model and bought drives to put in it. I priced the diskless model with 6 2TB Western Digital Black drives and it came out less than $2000 (before shipping and tax) but the price of the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer Edition with 6 1TB drives in it I found on Amazon was something like $3600. I just cannot figure out why it is so much more expensive and it's half the storage than what I priced out.

Is there something that is being done to the unit that warrants an increase in price as opposed to buying the diskless unit and buying my own drives?

 

[claykin]

(now it would be cool if it at Subversion on it for version control...but I digress).

Subversion is available as a community addon. http://www.readynas.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=33338

My question is this.....

Why is the price with the drives included so much significantly higher than if I bought the diskless model and bought drives to put in it. I priced the diskless model with 6 2TB Western Digital Black drives and it came out less than $2000 (before shipping and tax) but the price of the ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer Edition with 6 1TB drives in it I found on Amazon was something like $3600. I just cannot figure out why it is so much more expensive and it's half the storage than what I priced out.

Is there something that is being done to the unit that warrants an increase in price as opposed to buying the diskless unit and buying my own drives?

You spec's desktop class disks. Netgear uses Enterprise class disks in the Pro units. Thats one difference. And yes, Netgears pricing on some bundled models is off the wall. Sometimes the bundled units (with disks) are a good deal, other times not. So, just buy the diskless. However, please make sure you purchase disks from the compatibility list. This is very important if you want to enjoy your Pro Pioneer and not possibly be chasing problems.

http://www.readynas.com/?cat=37

 

[grumpwurst]

You spec's desktop class disks. Netgear uses Enterprise class disks in the Pro units. Thats one difference. And yes, Netgears pricing on some bundled models is off the wall. Sometimes the bundled units (with disks) are a good deal, other times not. So, just buy the diskless. However, please make sure you purchase disks from the compatibility list. This is very important if you want to enjoy your Pro Pioneer and not possibly be chasing problems.

http://www.readynas.com/?cat=37

Thanks. I discovered the hardware compatibility list last night and made the erroneous assumption that that there wasn't a difference between disks (enterprise class vs desktop) so didn't pay close attention to see that the disks I was pricing wasn't on the list.

Now, that I'm looking the prices are much higher (unless you look at the Low Power versions and then they become cheap, but I'm not into being green with my computers).

Interesting that my usual place to get cheap computer equipment doesn't carry them (B&H Photo & Video) but they carry the diskless ReadyNAS Pro Pioneer (but not rebate available).

I have noticed on that ProSafe Rebate Center site that very few places come up as having the $200 rebate available but NewEgg seems to give it to you at checkout. I'd love to get the unit $200 cheaper