Looking for quality home router, not sure about ax, and is netgear safe?

[System Error Message]

thanks, i've oft relied on rotten tomatoes i'm not even sure what i'd do with the r7000 at this point - my house isn't as wired as i'd like or i'd use it as a bridge or access point - maybe blasting using my MoCA setup, otherwise just curiosity.
do you think keep using the R7800 with .52 until the next firmware hopefully fixes the issues of the current new firmware? i read .62 seems to have all the same problems (speedtest might work) - i'd go tomato or dd-wrt if that's the play - i really just want to set it and forget it - but netgear has made that an impossibility.

rotten tomatoes have gotten rotten, they are now corporate shills.

 

[RMinNJ]

thanks - at this point i can wait until .63 or .64 or .99 - just wish they'd get it right - otherwise i'll go third party but again, i'm not a router power user - nor should we NEED to be (i get it if we want to tweak, etc.) but for core functionality you'd think the manufacturer would, i don't know, have their devices work...
thanks again!
ps i notice in your signature you're using the R7800 stock (not sure if your signature is up to date) - if you are, can you advise which firmware number, and if it seems to be functioning properly? Again, the .52 seems to be doing it for me, but i now have almost no 5G connections (i don't know if the protocol is "dumb" or the firmware is - i'd imagine the devices and router should be able to negotiate frequency but maybe it's only at the time of power cycling?)
thanks again!

The 1.0.2.62 firmware has been good for me...fixed the 5Ghz issues in .58 and .60. Its been a reliable router for me.

 

[Gary B. Garland]

...and i'm back. yesterday L2 from netgear reached out to me - i think because i wrote them from a forum i saw on newegg - anyway, the upshot is, the L2 tech was a very nice woman (that part doesn't matter, just interesting) - she was competent but didn't know .62 was out for the R7800 (and then on the phone she went to the site and saw that it was). she was tryign to help me with my R7000 and i said it was not worth "fixing" as i think it is a firmware issue, but bought the R7800 anyway, and i was running .52 because .60 had the same issues. upshot, she called me back at a time we set later at my home, and essentially i let her take over my pc (where i drove a little anyway). Back up config, update to .62 which she really wanted me using, and things seemed generally okay, but with very littel 5G usage - i wifi cycled my cell phone (which i was speaknig to her on) and eventually 5G kicked in. .62 was also able to show me the names of my devices, where .52 couldn't or forgot them - i don't remember if i set up in .60 or on the R7000. Regardless, things seemed okay, but without much 5G (and apparently the router won't re-negotiate, it seems to be only at the time of the device's boot up (the attached devices) - i'd love 5G or band negotiation based on performance and frequency - regardless, things seemed okay, and she asked me to let her know about any further issues. was about a 45 minute call.
this morning i noticed one of my nest cameras went off for about 15 minutes some 1 hour or so after our call - yes, everything went out when the router was rebooting, etc. - that was expected, but the nest camera outage (again, "only" 15 minutes, but still out was reminiscent of the device whack-a-mole i was playing on my R7000 (except the R7000 would also lose it's wifi to my ipad, etc.) and device dropping was also common the on the .60 firmware.
i wrote back to netgear, thanked her for her time, bashed their firmware engineers again (i used to a be programmer, no excuse for this) and told her i was reverting to .52 and won't play the beta tester anymore; that i'll switch to a new firmware after i read about success on the forums.
and that was that!
i don't know if Asus or the other devices have these many issues - but this is just crazy!
I believe the hardware is fine, i think the firmware is not.
I hope these guys don't work on airplane firmware, helicopters, missile launch systems, or even my toaster.

 

[Gary B. Garland]

there are conflicting reports on NG's own forum. Most say the wifi issues are fixed in .62 but there are others that still have them. Maybe a factory reset is needed, I'm not sure

I wrote a bunch above, but I believe .62 still is no good, and yeah, speedtest still doesn't work (QoS), etc. - how does this company let this stuff out the door?

 

[microchip]

NG is primarily a hardware company and outsources firmware development to a third party. I guess they (the third party) do (very) limited tests before pushing it out. Btw, QoS speedtest works for me on .62

 

[Gary B. Garland]

thanks. for me .62 was still greyed out for speedtest, and clicking didn't seem to do anything - i've read where with decent internet speed QoS isn't as beneficial and can slow things down - during peak my cable is probably 50Mbs at home; at night (last night 6:30 with agent, eastern time) it was just short of 200.
thanks again - they want me to send them logs, run .62, and debug for them - i said i'll happily send logs, even on my R7000 (without internet, using a notebook and differnet network) if they'd like, but otherwise i'm out - i'm not willing to beta test.
i also let them know i was planning on the AX12 - but not anymore.

 

[RMinNJ]

"..
I hope these guys don't work on airplane firmware, helicopters, missile launch systems, or even my toaster. ""

LOL.. Well in the case of their last couple of firmware updates they would leave planes crashing for over a month despite reports on the plane forum and if you call it in they would contribute it to the user's environment.

That is very similar to the L2 NetGear support I received.. hours and hours with them logged into 3 of my machines checking my environment ....eventually getting beta firmware from L3 where they fix the horrendous 5ghz problem but it took soooo long to convince them it was not me. The support was not horrendous (and they've fixed bugs for me in the past) .. but what got me on this one was their lack of real concern to make the product better. ..and it was real horrendous problem this time. Months of people reporting issues on the NG community forum with no real concern.. And I was willing to beta tests for them.

At high level its interesting.. this is a consumer grade router ... but we depend on our internet more and more these days. After this exercise I'm willing to pay more for a good product and would even pay for a support contract for good support.
But I think I'm in minority on that. I certainly think Voxel's firmware is in my future with this product.

Let us know which router you go with and how the support is. I always wonder if I can do better knowing how much I depend on my home network and internet now.

 

[Gary B. Garland]

RM, i too am in NJ - maybe per Netgear it's only a New Jersey thing?
i do tend to get under the hood more than most - but unless i'm running a firmware where i can broadcast at 120% power, etc. - i just want to set and forget. Can you imagine a Keurig working this way - either 1/2 a cup of coffee, or nothing, or water temperature 60 degrees F versus say, 190 (or whatever the right temp is) - i have NEVER heard of firmware this bad before - it may be that it is extremely complex, but i've never seen core functionality inoperative on a device before. just saying.

 

[RMinNJ]

Right... I last worked with NG support on a 4GB limit on the stat counters... but it was a minor bug. They had me send some logs and called me back etc....it was like working with a regular support staff on a software issue. I was actually fairly impressed...they gave me some beta firmware that fixed it and the fix was rolled into the firmware after 2 firmware releases...fix cited in their terse, meaningless release notes.

This 5Ghz problem ....it was horrendous, repeatable and persisted across several firmware version.. They kept saying they could not reproduce it... almost like their hardware differed from ours. People were returning the routers they purchased at Christmas. It was a break of the router's core functionality...and yet I got better support on a minor bug. I seemed to be the only person that called it in and opened a case. It makes sense as all anyone can do is pay for support or complain here and on the NG community. But complaints were ignored on their NG community forums..they dont offer official support there. Wish they did.. One has no other way to work with them to help them fix the firmware. I was like....let me help you.. but no their support model is as you describe.... work with L2 support who must gather a lot of things for L3 support..

That you still have a 5Ghz problem baffles me. Im not surprised there are still issues with the firmware I just dont understand how they can be the 5Ghz signal.
Is it just your Nest Cameras that are disconnecting? Do you know if they use 2.4 or 5? I have 2 separate SSIDs and my devices usually connect to one . I recall running the SSIDinsider? scanner with NG and I did find my Roku was output a signal competing with the 5Ghz... not the cause of the problems but certainly something I did not know (there was a settign on the Roku to turn that down (but cant turn off ...its used for the Roku remote)).

I read good things about the Ubiquiti Routers but don't know if they are easy enough to setup .. did not seem that way. I waver between set it and forget it and
let me tinker....

 

[Gary B. Garland]

thanks - i love my ipad, but ios isn't as friendly with sniffing but my android phone is like a bloodhound - so i used a sniffer (as i had in the past) and there is a bunch of traffic in my area - i ultimately set the 5ghz band to 60 which i think has (DFS?) next to it - and a warning that radar may bump it around -t hat's okay. i'm staying away from the default of 153 or 155 or 157 - i think 155 is the default and i was there, 153 for a while, etc.
i did originally set up one of the nests i think possibly on the 2.4 band - my 2.4 and 5 use the same credentials, and i DO have the smart band thingie enabled - i could separate out 2.4 and 5, change the ssid on 2.4, "force" things to connect on 5, and then bring smart back into play in case the 5 drops out - but i think i'll roll back to .52 to do that.
btw, my home is a wooden structure, the router is literally about 25 feet (exterior wall in the way) to the garage nest, and the other nest is another 15 feet from there, around the edge of the house. at least the R7000 was able to reach by my pool easily, ABOUT 150 feet from the router (but i'm not the best with measurements) and i imagine newer with another antenna would allow the R7800 to reach there or further (but maybe at 2.4 and not 5). thanks you got me thinking and i'll do that - 1) revert firmware 2) "disable" 2.4 (change ssid) 3) force connect (i hope) to 5) then 4) return 2.4 ssid where it belongs, and then allow the smart coexistence. THAT might work.
actually hard to power cycle the nests (both have extension cords inside, one easy to reach, other requires a ladder) - with the nest cameras you need the QR code or 6 digit number to set up - so i'm petrified of them losing all connectivity (i have their mac addresses and use static ips and dhcp reservations) as i don't want to call my handyman back in - one of them is higher than i'm comfortable ascending. next handyman will have to take photos of the cameras (almost poetic)

 

[RMinNJ]

I think the smart connect thing on the router where devices can connect to either dynamically would drive me bonkers.. I have that disabled, same creds on 2.4 and 5Ghz SSIDs (different SSIDs obviously). I also have a NG extender upstairs (only for my phone really...broadcast 2.4 only..not really needed).

That is, my phone and laptop which move around a lot seem to try to connect to the last SSID they connected to. Upstairs my laptop will stay on the 5Ghz (router is downstairs)... my phone will favor the upstairs extender always (only broadcast 2.4) but downstairs it will connect either to the upstairs extender or the 5Ghz... not really the 2.4Ghz off the router ..odd. If my phone stays on the 5Ghz upstairs I may find it cannot download things... I occasionally find this and have to tap the 2.4 extender or 2.4 network on the phone to have it reconnect. A phone or ipad dynamically switching would be nice I guess.

But my other devices are all stationary...ie Firesticks. They do not move. They are set to use the 5Ghz only ...both upstairs. I would not want them automatically switching ever.

7800 is doing really well. But I have not heard
good things about the smart connect setting ..think that is hit or miss. Its not on by default on a factory reset.

 

[Gary B. Garland]

you can install FreshTomato on your R7000. It's very solid firmware. I once had an uptime of 100 days without a single glitch. This was on Tomato Shibby but it seems he stopped for now and a few guys took his firmware and continued development. They call it FreshTomato

for your R7800, try the just released .62. If it doesn't fix your issues you can revert to .52

and i'm back with the same issue. I tried (and am using ) DD-WRT with the 7800 - not something i wanted to do. seems far more stable than the native firmware, but i'm still occasionally losing cameras - i'd get it if the cameras were at the edge of the property and far away - but they are literally about 15 feet and 30 feet from the router (admittedly, the signal has to pass through the garage - cinder block below, and wood framing/vinly siding. i think the router is actually above the cinder block.
i'm seriously considering reverting to either .52 or even .62 and then just sell the beast.
i'm trying to decide whether to go with an Eero (which i don't really want to, i imagine i'll have to take performance hits, and not sure will reach my pool area) or else consider another brand, like Asus - i'll do more reading, but i'm not aware if users are having firmware issues with Asus or the other brands. UPDATE: I'm SERIOUSLY considering the Asus RT-AC3100.
thanks for any help out there - 4 months and still issues - ugh!

 

[L&LD]

Just a few quick points.

• How many wireless devices are connected at any one time? Anything past 32 per band/radio will start giving you issues.
• The RT-AC3100 was the golden standard for a long time for me (see my RT-AC3100 Report link in my signature below), but as others in this thread have mentioned, the RT-AC86U is superior.
• In your network set up, I would be testing both the RT-AC3100 and the RT-AC86U both with RMerlin firmware installed and afterward a full M&M Config (again, please see my signature for links and further details).

If the issue does turn out to be too many wireless devices connected per band, a TriRadio router like an RT-AC5300 with RMerlin's firmware (of course!) is then a possibly better solution.

Hope to see your troubles over soon.

 

[Gary B. Garland]

Just a few quick points.

• How many wireless devices are connected at any one time? Anything past 32 per band/radio will start giving you issues.
• The RT-AC3100 was the golden standard for a long time for me (see my RT-AC3100 Report link in my signature below), but as others in this thread have mentioned, the RT-AC86U is superior.
• In your network set up, I would be testing both the RT-AC3100 and the RT-AC86U both with RMerlin firmware installed and afterward a full M&M Config (again, please see my signature for links and further details).

If the issue does turn out to be too many wireless devices connected per band, a TriRadio router like an RT-AC5300 with RMerlin's firmware (of course!) is then a possibly better solution.

Hope to see your troubles over soon.

Hi - many thanks for the reply - i thought tri band and the other goodies were supposed to be selling points and not quite ready for prime time? (i may be mistaken - probably am!) - i wouldn't mind terribly to pay and get a top of the line device now, and leave it alone for a few years, but back around january i thought i read i would be paying for tech that really isn't in use yet.
i generally have about 31 devices connected at a time - i'd say roughly 5 echos (usually no more than 1 on at a time), some fire sticks (again, probably no more than 1 on at a time), 3 nests, a couple of tivos, some smartphones, and some ipads. occasionally some chromebooks.
i stream, as do my kids, but oft times we'll be on the tivo or cable boxes. one of the tivos uses MoCA but i don't think that would affect the wifi.
i set up for mixed use, 2.4 and 5 - and most of the devices are 2.4 - however, of the roughly 31 devices, maybe 7 are attached via lan so then i'm down to only about 24 wireless devices.
i'll start researching the RT-AC86U, and thank you for the nod - my real query was about netgear's firmware but if your'e suggesting RMerlin then i'm guessing the Asus firmware may also have its issues.
thank you again - i'll do my best to research what is in your links per your post to get up to speed - this time i won't just buy ANOTHER router - i THINK i regret my R7800 purchase, but that was after my R7000 was doing this stuff (which the R7800 appears to be doing as well) - as it's happening also with DD-WRT tells me maybe it's less firmware and more hardware. Thank you again.

 

[L&LD]

Hi - many thanks for the reply - i thought tri band and the other goodies were supposed to be selling points and not quite ready for prime time? (i may be mistaken - probably am!) - i wouldn't mind terribly to pay and get a top of the line device now, and leave it alone for a few years, but back around january i thought i read i would be paying for tech that really isn't in use yet.
i generally have about 31 devices connected at a time - i'd say roughly 5 echos (usually no more than 1 on at a time), some fire sticks (again, probably no more than 1 on at a time), 3 nests, a couple of tivos, some smartphones, and some ipads. occasionally some chromebooks.
i stream, as do my kids, but oft times we'll be on the tivo or cable boxes. one of the tivos uses MoCA but i don't think that would affect the wifi.
i set up for mixed use, 2.4 and 5 - and most of the devices are 2.4 - however, of the roughly 31 devices, maybe 7 are attached via lan so then i'm down to only about 24 wireless devices.
i'll start researching the RT-AC86U, and thank you for the nod - my real query was about netgear's firmware but if your'e suggesting RMerlin then i'm guessing the Asus firmware may also have its issues.
thank you again - i'll do my best to research what is in your links per your post to get up to speed - this time i won't just buy ANOTHER router - i THINK i regret my R7800 purchase, but that was after my R7000 was doing this stuff (which the R7800 appears to be doing as well) - as it's happening also with DD-WRT tells me maybe it's less firmware and more hardware. Thank you again.

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/n...and-ax-rax200-router.55657/page-2#post-478625

The RT-AC5300 is not a cutting edge device anymore. It is a time-proven performer for about 3 years now.

All firmware has issues but please do some more research. Asuswrt based RMerlin firmware is head and shoulders above any other consumer router right now with regards to stability, quick bug fixes (yes, even some of Asus' bugs) and supported features. Not to mention it uses a code base (and packages) that is much more current than others too (security updated right there).

With just 24 wireless devices connected at any one time, the RT-AC5300 may not be the best match for you. The others suggested are still candidates.

How bearable is your network right now? The next major update worth shelling out for will be available sometime in 2020 from all accounts so far.

If that is too long to wait, testing both the RT-AC3100 or the RT-AC86U in your network and choosing the overall winner is your best bet, IMO.

 

[thiggins]

It's not the number of associated devices per AP that matters, it's the number of simultaneous active devices. Airtime use/congestion is the limiting factor.

 

[#TY]

The RT-AC5300 is not a cutting edge device anymore. It is a time-proven performer for about 3 years now.

Agreed. I have this router and its a SOLID BEAST. Merlin's firmware is a must and depending on how much of a perfectionist you are, there are some invaluable add-ons for the ASUS router that take it to an even higher level or perfection and performance.

 

[Gary B. Garland]

Agreed. I have this router and its a SOLID BEAST. Merlin's firmware is a must and depending on how much of a perfectionist you are, there are some invaluable add-ons for the ASUS router that take it to an even higher level or perfection and performance.

again, many thanks. i'm looking for a router more as an end user than a power user - i want solid reliable performance with good range, and good streaming. the few times i game on a console i'll usually have wired connections so it's really streaming, downloading, kids doing homework, etc. (and i know, streaming is probably tough on the beast - maybe more so than downloading)
if the consensus is to check out the RT-AC5300 i'm all for it - i saw a video review where the reviewer actually preferred the 88, and i understand the 86 is a lesser model. all in all, i'm getting myself nice and confused.
i want to stay away from the eero - multiple friends love theirs, but i've read mixed reviews, and i'm more of a pure router kinda guy. i saw the asus permits mesh networking, i'm not sure how well that works or if i'd even need it - say 3,500 foot house (i do want to reach the basement, router on main level) and i do want to reach pool area, furtherst corner say 200 feet away.
thanks again!

 

[L&LD]

again, many thanks. i'm looking for a router more as an end user than a power user - i want solid reliable performance with good range, and good streaming. the few times i game on a console i'll usually have wired connections so it's really streaming, downloading, kids doing homework, etc. (and i know, streaming is probably tough on the beast - maybe more so than downloading)
if the consensus is to check out the RT-AC5300 i'm all for it - i saw a video review where the reviewer actually preferred the 88, and i understand the 86 is a lesser model. all in all, i'm getting myself nice and confused.
i want to stay away from the eero - multiple friends love theirs, but i've read mixed reviews, and i'm more of a pure router kinda guy. i saw the asus permits mesh networking, i'm not sure how well that works or if i'd even need it - say 3,500 foot house (i do want to reach the basement, router on main level) and i do want to reach pool area, furtherst corner say 200 feet away.
thanks again!

Trust us, we too want the same thing from the routers we're recommending to you. Solid performance with good/great range and streaming.

I would recommend that you read and re-read this thread when you can concentrate more on it. This really isn't that confusing.

I don't think you will find any (single) consumer router that will give you coverage to the pool area at 200' away, but then, I don't know the layout of the home or the construction/materials too.

I'll try to summarize a few things here quickly.

The RT-AC86U is one of the best, most current routers you can buy right now. Significantly better throughput than, and equivalent if not better range, than the RT-AC3100, (the RT-AC88U, equivalent to the RT-AC3100) or the RT-AC5300, in most homes.

What the RT-AC5300 offers is three radios (2.4GHz and 2x 5GHz) that are better suited to a household with more than 32, 5GHz client devices (and all routers offer an additional 32, 2.4GHz clients too).

What I can't predict is if the RT-AC86U will outperform in range, in your specific network environment, the class-leading RT-AC3100. Again, I urge you to read the RT-AC3100 Report in my signature below.

As far as AiMesh goes? For some, it is the best thing since sliced bread. For a lot of others here, it could be more descriptively spelled 'AiMess'. I would not recommend it. I personally find it a waste of time right now and far from your requirements. A second, strategically placed wired router in AP mode will be much more reliable.

Another benefit that the RT-AC86U has over the other routers mentioned above is the greater VPN performance it offers in addition to the better handling of 1Gbps ISP connections over any previous models. It is also the newest router (about a year old) of the bunch so it should be supported for the longest time too (and would make a great AP when AX routers hit their stride next year sometime in 2020 and the upgrade 'bug' but may bite).

The accolades and recommendations from me for the routers above come with one condition. RMerlin firmware is a must. Don't let this deter you in any way (but do know that the buggy AiMesh is not included in RMerlin firmware, he wants it to be rock stable too). Simply upgrade the router as you normally would, complete an M&M Config as you should be doing anyway with a router you want stable and with the highest performance possible and then you can just enjoy all the bug squashing and other under the hood improvements RMerlin firmware offers supported Asus routers.

Keep asking questions to clarify anything that is vague. Hope to see you with a solid solution soon.

 

[Gary B. Garland]

L&LD, and the others - THANK YOU.
my confusion - 1) 88 is a higher number than 86. seriously - to me the 88 should be better and newer. then i run into the AC3100 vs. 5300 dual band versus tri band - it's a lot.
range - my frustrating netgear r7000 was able to reach the corner of the pool. the reason i keep talking about the corner is i plan to upgrade the remote stuff i have to be wifi remote stuff so i can dump the peanut shaped erratic pool remote control (i know, first world problems). Ditto, i plan to install a wifi pool robot this year (but it will be about 50 feet closer to the house). and my distances are all complete guesses, so not worth much anyway.
the AiMesh/Mess (had me laughing) - after reading Netgear's propaganda i now find all manufacturer's claims suspect - so i'm hearing Merlin's firmware is the play - i'd rather stay stock, but if those who know more than me (almost everyone except my dog) tell me go wtih merlin's, then off to the wizard i shall go.
i LOVE the concept of airmesh - as i can deprecate the router in a few years, or just buy an older cheaper one, and theoretically have my mesh network.
i wish my house was built with cat 5e cable - it wasn't - and i don't want to break the walls. i ran a cable to the basement before we finished the basement, and if i could do things over again i'd have overkilled the whole thing, but instead it looks like a wifi house (it is wired for cable, but MoCA is i think limited to 100mb (update - i just saw, there's gigabit MoCa - so as there is cable wired all over the house, i can use that for extenders or access points if needed)
the RT-5300 looked more gee wiz futuristic - as many antennas as an octopus, tri band, and other sundry promises.
the RT-AC86U seems to be the one to beat - though i jsaw on tom's guide it says great for long distance, not so good up close (so i'm scratching my head).
the RT-3100 seems good - i need to read the report in your signature
between these three, i think there's plenty to be confused about.
what's interesting is they're all asus - i don't see netgear (which i would now avoid like the plague, even i they have the imperial shuttle router) and i don't see tplink, archer, etc. - so i think i'm right to zone in on asus. then i need to read a bit more to see which of the 3 should be "the one" - seems like the 86 vs. the 3100 so i'll have to read up.
THANK YOU AGAIN!