Looking to add wireless access point

[jcwillia1]

All,

A brief overview of my network : Basement ATT gigabit router + wifi routes to various switches around the house and most importantly two near-ceiling mounted Asus Black Diamonds on first and second floor which serve the house with wifi.

I also have a theater in my basement where I need really good wi-fi in order to solidly serve devices in the theater with connectivity to my theater closet devices (AVR, XBox, etc). The basement router for one is AT&T which means it's terrible and two is on the opposite corner of the basement with plenty of potential interference between the two corners.

My buying preferences are annoyingly-low price-centric. I looked at another RT-N56U.

Looks like I can get it for as cheap as $30 shipped. I see on the wireless access point charts those start at about $60.

Is there another "best practice" option that is below or around $40 and will serve the same purpose? Happy to buy another Black Diamond but it's been 10 years and it would seem a better option should have come along by now.

 

[degrub]

1) hardwire ethernet for every device you can.
then -
Need a map of physical set up including devices in cabinets, location of obstructions, options for placement of wireless radio, etc , existing wireless.
For wireless you will want to use 5 GHz if possible to reduce interference and set radios on a band well away from any other. 5GHz will not penetrate more than one sheetrock wall or a cabinet very well. Adjustable power likely helpful on radios. If you have to use 2.4GHz you will need to have adjustable power option on radios.

price should only be a secondary consideration to meet the physical issues. That said, you should not have to buy the most expensive. You will have to investigate the options for the AP config that you want. Read the manuals in advance to see if they will work for this situation.

 

[jcwillia1]

All,

A brief overview of my network : Basement ATT gigabit router + wifi routes to various switches around the house and most importantly two near-ceiling mounted Asus Black Diamonds on first and second floor which serve the house with wifi.

I also have a theater in my basement where I need really good wi-fi in order to solidly serve devices in the theater with connectivity to my theater closet devices (AVR, XBox, etc). The basement router for one is AT&T which means it's terrible and two is on the opposite corner of the basement with plenty of potential interference between the two corners.

My buying preferences are annoyingly-low price-centric. I looked at another RT-N56U.

Looks like I can get it for as cheap as $30 shipped. I see on the wireless access point charts those start at about $60.

Is there another "best practice" option that is below or around $40 and will serve the same purpose? Happy to buy another Black Diamond but it's been 10 years and it would seem a better option should have come along by now.

Fast forward a year and this is still a problem.

I have my ATT box in the basement which will not accept a router. That is hooked up to numerous gigabit switches and a single wireless access point - an archer a7. I have three floors to my house - basement main and upstairs (~1300 sf each) and I need coverage throughout the house. The a7 is located as centrally as it can possibly be - about 1 foot from the ceiling inside my kitchen pantry. It is operating in WAP mode. Also I have a smart outlet connected to the main switch which powers off the switch every night from 9-4 to keep my son off YouTube.

Here are the issues I am experiencing. I will open gmail on my iPhone 6s and it is showing new mail but I load up the app and it just sits there. Flip off the WiFi and it refreshes immediately. Same story with Spotify. Also experiencing audio drop outs with Spotify and Alexa speakers that won’t group correctly. Occasionally I will go to load up a web page in chrome and again it appears to be stuck - again flip off wifi and it immediately loads.

I have no issues with any device that is directly connected via Ethernet. I have gigabit service from att.

My financial tastes are definitely on the thrifty side but if the only solution is a $200 router/WAP I guess I’m frustrated enough to pay that.

 

[coxhaus]

Why can't you add a WAP connected with a wire in the basement as recommended a year ago?

You can add a router to the AT&T router if you run double NAT. IF you do then your whole network would need to be switched over to the new router so you can have a flat network.

 

[MichaelCG]

How many wireless devices do you have connected to each band? Generally speaking....3 floors of 1300sqft each, you aren't going to get what you want with a single AP. You may not with 2...just depends on how many devices you have and how active they are.

I used to be overly focused on just price for many years and never had spent more than $50 on a router or a WAP.....and my network never performed the way I wanted it to or it required being rebooted too often. I gave in, bought a proper router (at the time, this was an RT-N66U) which is an x86 box running Sophos XG, and Ubiquiti WiFi distributed across the house. Now....I don't reboot anything anymore, clients can connect from almost anywhere in the house and get 100Mbps or higher on the WiFi and my wife isn't mad at me because the network is down.

 

[Trip]

Considering your setup and constraints, I would keep routing, switching and wired infrastructure the same, scrap the Archer and simply wire in distributed wifi, with multiple APs working in-conjunction. At your budget, TP-Link Omada is going to beat out Ubiquiti UniFi on price and be almost as functional. Two or three EAP225v3's ($65 ea.) and an OC200 controller ($85) will have this situation taken care of in no time, and for just about as little as possible up-front.

If you can't wire in all APs, two or three working-pull/refurb Ruckus R500's for $75 ea. off eBay, flashed with the Unleashed version of the firmware (controller built-in to each AP) and setup with SmartMesh turned on, will run circles around a lot of consumer mesh solutions for less money, on a much more mature code base with stuff like 802.11k/r/v roaming that actually works (lol). And yes, for the devil's advocates, the 500 is recently EOL'd, but for most SOHO purposes, not a huge deal.

Either way, tons you can do to solve your problems for around or not too much beyond $200. Any way you do it, congrats for deciding to invest in your network.

 

[jcwillia1]

TP-Link Omada

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0781YXFBT/?tag=snbforums-20

??

 

[Trip]

That's the one. If you don't have much wireless activity going on in the basement, I'd start with two of them: the first ceiling-mounted in a main floor central room, the second mounted the same way on the first floor. You'll also want an OC200 controller, which will make roaming work way better and allow for central management of all APs.

Question: are any of your switches PoE (power over ethernet) capable? Ideally, you want any switch that will be connecting to an AP to have PoE, so you can power your APs over a single Cat6 cable (carrying both data and power). This also allows for the best placement, as the AP no longer needs to remain within range of a power outlet. So although it would add expense, you might consider a cheap gigabit PoE switch or two, such as the $50 TP-Link TL-SG1005P.

Lastly, assuming you don't have in-wall ethernet and/or ceiling jacks, I find low-profile raceway to be ideal for concealing Cat6 that will need to be run up the wall and across the ceiling to the AP.

 

[jcwillia1]

I looked at that last time. The poe scared me off.

 

[Trip]

Why would it scare you off?

 

[jcwillia1]

Why would it scare you off?

lack of familiarity

does orientation matter? my WAP is mounted on the wall - ceiling mount would be a minor pain but doable.

 

[Trip]

PoE these days is rather straight forward, especially on good quality switches, such as Cisco SG250/350 series, where they come preset to auto-negotiate, and automatically enable/disable PoE depending on whether the endpoint requires it, or not.

And yes, typically with indoor, internal-antennae APs where the form-factor is often "saucer" like in appearance, you want the planar surface (top and bottom) parallel with the ground, either top side down (when mounted on the ceiling) or top side up (if placed on a book shelf, etc.). Ceiling is usually best, but high up on a book shelf or armoire made of wood or particle board, free from any immediate obstacles and/or metal objects, makes for a decent enough position as well.

 

[jcwillia1]

my current AP is wall mounted about a foot from the ceiling but surrounded by various cooking gadgets - I'll tell my wife to move the metal ones to the other side of the pantry and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Trip]

It could make a difference, but depending upon the model, orientation can often make an even bigger difference. Of course, if we're dealing with external antennae, this all goes out the window; you simply align the antennae to be perpendicular to the desired omni-directional broadcast "donut".

 

[jcwillia1]

you simply align the antennae to be perpendicular to the desired omni-directional broadcast "donut".

Thanks for your extremely insightful help on this topic - it is very much appreciated.

okay can you help me visualize this "donut" concept? The Archer A7 is currently wall mounted with the antenna sticking up (parallel to the floor / ceiling). Should they be pointed towards the floor? Or one to the floor and one straight out?

 

[Trip]

Here's a visualization for external antennae broadcast patterns, with Azimuth (bird's eye view looking down) and Elevation (sideways view of ground to sky) sketches:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-optimal-way-to-position-the-3-antennas-on-a-WiFi-access-point


And for the internal "saucer" type APs, the Cisco Aironet 2600 series graphic is a pretty good generic representation of what to expect. You can see how, optimally, you want these mounted on the ceiling, top facing the floor, as there is less broadcast capability below the "bottom" of the AP than the "top":

 

[jcwillia1]

neat - so on that top one is the antenna X or Z? I assumed Z?

 

[Trip]

The Z axis in that shot would be the shaft of the external antenna itself.

 

[jcwillia1]

https://www.att.com/buy/accessories/internet-equipment/airties-att-smart-wi-fi-extender-white.html

Are these aggressively bad? I like that they are set up for my service and they're much less expensive than other mesh routers - I assume that means there is a performance hit but I don't think I need a ton of help - just a nudge...

 

[Trip]

I believe they do specifically mesh with the AT&T gateways, and that's actual mesh, as opposed to vanilla repeating. Assuming the radios and code are solid enough, they should work pretty well. It lists roughly 1K square feet per additional satellite; YMMV there, of course.

I'm not usually big on bolstering your LAN with ISP gear, but for $50 for a pair, perhaps worth a shot.