looking to replace my upstairs router.

[superjet]

I've got a n66u running downstairs in my office which is the main hub for the whole house, except that my main tivo roamio box is upstairs. The TiVo is connected via gigabit to a e4200(v1) router which operates in bridge mode, connected via gigabit to the n66u network.

I'm very disappointed with the tivos throughput to my main desktop computer, and judging by others experience the tivo will generally get around 890mbps via wired connection. Mine maxes out around 95mbps. That makes me think there is a throughput restriction in the e4200. All connections are cat5e cables I made myself.
connected to the network are:

1 desktop computer wired
5 laptops, all via ethernet and wireless both at different times
3 ipads
5 iphones
apple tv wired
smart tv wired
playstation 3 wireless
hp printer 8600 wired
tivo mini over MoCA from the roamio pro (was wondering if having a moca and ethernet connection on the tivo could be hampering its throughput)

Assuming the choke point for my network is the WAN port of the e4200 or any other limitations of the e4200, here's what I'm thinking to replace it:

add another n66u upstairs to replace the aging linksys e4200

Or, if the wired throughput has improved significantly with the new generation of routers like the r7000 or ac68u I could replace the downstairs n66u with either a 68u or r7000 and move the n66u upstairs.

FWIW I don't use the USB storage on any router I've ever had except for downloads or occasionally transferring files for temporary storage, but that's very infrequently.

The only thing I use the MoCA bridge on the TiVO for is a connection to the tivo mini downstairs there's nothing else connected to it.

Another thing that makes me suspect the e4200 in choking down my network is that when a wireless device is connected to one of the wireless networks from that router the TiVO streaming to that device is choppy and buffers fairly often. Additionally, transfers across the network are super slow when something is connected to the linksys router and the other device is on the downstairs network, wired or wireless.

 

[stevech]

confused... wired throughput among the cat5 cables connected to the router's built-in LAN switch ports, are just that, switch ports. So the CPU speed of the router wouldn't affect the switch ports for moving data among PCs, etc., that are wired.

The router's WAN port should go to your internet access modem and nothing else, e.g., don't cascade routers.

Streaming video on WiFi is rarely a happy experience. Too many reasons for interference and competition for air time, for your stuff and neighbors near your channel.

 

[superjet]

confused... wired throughput among the cat5 cables connected to the router's built-in LAN switch ports, are just that, switch ports. So the CPU speed of the router wouldn't affect the switch ports for moving data among PCs, etc., that are wired.

The router's WAN port should go to your internet access modem and nothing else, e.g., don't cascade routers.

Streaming video on WiFi is rarely a happy experience. Too many reasons for interference and competition for air time, for your stuff and neighbors near your channel.

So is bridge mode with a second router a worse setup in this case than just putting an unmanaged switch up there?Right now one of the lan ports on my N66u is wired to the WAN port on the 4200 upstairs, and the 4200 is in bridge mode. The WAN port on the n66u goes to a comcast modem.

I've got a couple gigabit switches laying around, but didnt use them up until now because for some reason I thought putting a router as a bridge was a better idea and because TiVo hasnt played nice with switches historically.

 

[superjet]

I just ran inSSIDer Office and found out that one of my neighbors has a router on a non-standard channel and it was destroying my upstairs wireless capabilities... Got that fixed I think.

 

[azazel1024]

I guess I am fuzzy on what you are looking at. A switch would work fine, but so would a router with DHCP disabled. The later is basically a fancy semi-managed L3/L7 switch then (if not using the WAN port).

The Tivo are you sure its a gigabit port? Have you tested the wires to ensure it is properly negotiating gigabit speeds, because it sure sounds like it negotiated to fast ethernet. Its also possible that because it is connected over MoCA, it forces the ethernet port on it to fast ethernet speeds (MoCA 1.1 is only 100Mbps capable, well I think technically 110Mbps).

For the slow network wired/wireless trasnfers, what is the topology and where are things flowing.

If there things are sharing pipes and a lot of data is flowing, it'll slow everything else down. Its a shared channel to the internet and/or between the routers.

You should NOT be using the WAN port on the upstairs router unless that is the connection to the internet. If you are running it in bridge mode, you should have LAN port connected back to the N66u. Otherwise you are creating two seperate networks and the e4200 is then acting as a router, not a bridge. Its also going to be adding processing overhead on the e4200.

 

[abailey]

So is bridge mode with a second router a worse setup in this case than just putting an unmanaged switch up there?Right now one of the lan ports on my N66u is wired to the WAN port on the 4200 upstairs, and the 4200 is in bridge mode. The WAN port on the n66u goes to a comcast modem.

I've got a couple gigabit switches laying around, but didnt use them up until now because for some reason I thought putting a router as a bridge was a better idea and because TiVo hasnt played nice with switches historically.

If you are going to use the second router, do like others have said and just use the LAN ports with DHCP turned off. That is essentially a switch. If you use the WAN port in bridge mode, that is also like a switch but it is not hardware accelerated like a switch is. The processor in the router has to do the packet processing and switching between the WAN and LAN port. Possibly slowing it down.

 

[superjet]

I guess I am fuzzy on what you are looking at. A switch would work fine, but so would a router with DHCP disabled. The later is basically a fancy semi-managed L3/L7 switch then (if not using the WAN port).

The Tivo are you sure its a gigabit port? Have you tested the wires to ensure it is properly negotiating gigabit speeds, because it sure sounds like it negotiated to fast ethernet. Its also possible that because it is connected over MoCA, it forces the ethernet port on it to fast ethernet speeds (MoCA 1.1 is only 100Mbps capable, well I think technically 110Mbps).

For the slow network wired/wireless trasnfers, what is the topology and where are things flowing.

If there things are sharing pipes and a lot of data is flowing, it'll slow everything else down. Its a shared channel to the internet and/or between the routers.

You should NOT be using the WAN port on the upstairs router unless that is the connection to the internet. If you are running it in bridge mode, you should have LAN port connected back to the N66u. Otherwise you are creating two seperate networks and the e4200 is then acting as a router, not a bridge. Its also going to be adding processing overhead on the e4200.

I stopped using the WAN port and turned the DHCP off, but havent noticed anything different with the transfer speeds. After checking the tivo forums, the speed I'm getting isn't unheard of slow, but still slower than others are experiencing, most of the time. The linksys router says it's connected at gigabit speed on the web configuration page which shows the rear ports and cabling. I'm not sure what other way I should be checking the cable

If you are going to use the second router, do like others have said and just use the LAN ports with DHCP turned off. That is essentially a switch. If you use the WAN port in bridge mode, that is also like a switch but it is not hardware accelerated like a switch is. The processor in the router has to do the packet processing and switching between the WAN and LAN port. Possibly slowing it down.

Thank you for the advice.

From here I'm going to go the route of just plugging the tivo in directly to the cable coming up from downstairs to bypass the upstairs router/switch, and after testing that disable moca and see if that works to increase the speeds.

 

[superjet]

So far I've eliminated the MoCA network, and that raised the speed considerably. It went from averaging 85Mbps to 160Mbps. I think the TiVO must default to 10/100 when MoCA is enabled.

 

[stevech]

MoCA's speed is a less than 100BT ethernet. It's used when there's just no way to run cat5.

 

[abailey]

So far I've eliminated the MoCA network, and that raised the speed considerably. It went from averaging 85Mbps to 160Mbps. I think the TiVO must default to 10/100 when MoCA is enabled.

It will be better to run your Tivo Mini over MOCA compared to wireless. What you can do is get a MOCA adapter to replace you’re built in Roamio MOCA, and connect this new adapter to your switch. This way you don't slow down your Roamio connection but you are still able to deliver your video to the Mini using MOCA. You should be able to use the 4port switch built into your E4200 without any slowdown (as long as you just use the LAN ports). This is how I use MOCA at my house.
One thing to note, as I ran into this in my house, you may have some video problems if you connect your Roamio to Gigabit but some of your devices connect at a lower speed, like 100Mbit. If the buffer on your Gigabit switch is insufficient, or flow control is disabled, you may get choppy or degraded video. This article talks about it from a Windows Media Center perspective, but the concept applies to all streaming media: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929707
This usually happens with inexpensive switches. At my house I use managed switches and thus was able to go into the switch and turn on Flow Control for the port that connected to my media center. Now it works perfectly.
That brings up one more point. If you can afford a managed switch you may consider getting one. Even if you don't use most of the advanced features like VLANS, QOS, Link Aggregation, etc. it makes it much easier to run down problems on your network. Many of the switches have built in cable testers, and have graphs and stats on the traffic on each port so you can see if there are problems. I have seen managed switches for as little as $45.

 

[superjet]

Thank you for the replies, I've since added a couple more wired connections and everything seems to be working smoothly. I added another Tivo Mini, a new LG smart TV, another laptop and a sonos playbar.

If I start getting the choppy video situation I'll definitely go that route with moca. Both my tivo minis are close to coax drops.

I'm having a small issue getting another old router to play nicely with this setup as just a switch, starting another thread on it.

 

[superjet]

I did my best idea of a torture test on my network setup today after finishing adding in more devices and an 8 port smart gigabit switch. I added 2 apple airport express routers set up as bridges only for airplay. Here was my torture test:

Everything running at the same time...
3 shows running simultaneously on 3 different tivos
4 different airplay sources airplaying different pandora radio stations simultaneously
netflix running in HD wirelessly to my upstairs access point
netflix running in HD wirelessly to my downstairs access point
hulu in HD over a wired connection through the smart TV
playing online call of duty from the ps3
speedtest.net running back to back to back to back tests simultaneously on 2 devices
a 10GB transfer across both the upstairs and downstairs router between my main desktop and a laptop.

All of that was running simultaneously and the network never slowed down noticeably...

I also took the time to replace everything but 2 long cable runs with cat6 shielded cable, upgrading from unshielded cat5e cable. It's probably all in my head but there's a seat of the pants snappier feel to my desktop and everything wired with cat6 now. All I have for testing equipment is a cheap $15 LED tester for showing whether wires are built correctly.