Low UL throughput over WIFI on new fiber line.. Normal?

[jasz]

Got fiber installed at my location couple weeks ago.

Was planning on using my own router(s) in a (single point solution). but I keep running into an issue where the upload throughput over WIFI gets significantly bottlenecked over a standard 2x2 AX connection. It's not the specific router either because I have a BE800 WIFI7, AX86 and a single ISP provided "pod" and they all seem to do the thing.

The line will do a gig (940mbps) over RJ45, but as soon as I switch to WIFI throughput down to 300mbps on weaker 2x2 connections, regardless of being full signal.

The only solutions I've found so far:

-2x2 @ 160mhz Intel AX201 connection @ 2400mbps next to router will push throughput, but any lower QAM modulation below lets say 1200mbps drops it to the 300 range....
-4x4 ROUTER (AC/AX 1733+mbps) in media bridge will also push full throughput.
-I assume the POD provided by ISP will also be "okay" since its a triband with 4x4 AX backhaul, but ill have to order them. (only have one and it works in 2x2 mode)

Weird side effect?
Running 5G AX laptop next to router will give me full throughput and ironically INCREASE throughput on other devices further away (300s>500s). Even a 5/6GHZ AX211 card, but it only increases throughput once I run a speed test on the 5g laptop close.

Its not interference either because I'm pretty sure I'm the only one at my location with 6ghz devices.

Is the ONT firmware just messy? my Signal is -19dBm which is in GPON normal range of -8 to -28. Doesn't really make sense to me and seems like a router sided issue.. but.... 3 different hardware solutions do the same thing.


Any suggestions are welcome.

Edit: not sure if this is a wireless issue or ONT issue.. given the fact every wireless device I have has the same results.. Only high throughput 4x4 or 160mhz bandwidth 2x2 with perfect signal "works".

 

[L&LD]

Welcome to the forums @jasz.

Test with different Control Channels.

 

[NoLight]

What ISP and ONT do you have?

 

[jasz]

Welcome to the forums @jasz.

Test with different Control Channels.

Definitely doesn't seem to have anything to do with it.

Every Wireless router and even WIFI7 6ghz (no interference locally) has same issue. Prob the reason I posted here instead of the WIFI section, even though it has to do with "WIFI".

Low chance 3-4 different wireless router solutions have the same issue.

Only way wireless "works" is with high throughput 4x4 routers in bridge mode or perfect 2x2 160mhz 2400mbps 1024 QAM... which I assume are the closest "throughput" to matching the RG45 1G port.

What ISP and ONT do you have?

Quantum fiber/CL and 5500XK. Which seems to be a rebranded Axon AN5500.

I don't think I can use a SFP adapter as it seems QF uses IPoE and modem/ONT authentication.

Also tried "transparent bridging mode" to BE800/AX86 and have same exact issue.

Main WL router is Wifi7 BE Qualcomm hardware, other is Broadcom AX.

 

[L&LD]

Okay, so you didn't try different control channels? Or, you tried and there was no difference?

 

[jasz]

@L&LD

Yes, no difference. 36 and 161 on 5G. Both highest wattage options via FCC reference.

Low channel 6ghz has no interference.. Quarter acre lot, and none of my neighbors venture past ISP rental solutions (5Ghz)

Just want to understand why 1G LAN and high throughput wireless is the only thing that works. A standard 2x2 80mhz 1200mbps full 1024 QAM client wont push over 300 mbps right next to "main" router (doesn't matter what I have plugged in).

*CAVEAT: Running a speed test on laptop next to router allows for same clients peaking around 300mbps to bump in throughput to around 450-480mbps for a brief period of time.*

I believe the Issue is ONT sided and only high throughput wireless connections can match wired 1G "throughput". IE: 2x2 160mhz 2400mbps or 4x4 80/160mhz. scaling from 1733mbps AC to 4800mbps AX.

I've been going through the forums looking at "wireless throughput" and think there's a misconception in certain situations. ISP/MODEM/ONT seems to influence it and that would more or less given significantly different results in every possible situation/environment based on signal level or fiber splits?

Edit: I was testing the fiber connection at 3-4 AM in the morning and I have the same problem.. so "bandwidth" on ISP isn't exactly the problem. I believe GPON splitting or ONT itself is just making possible throughput weaker, but I have no proof and would like to understand "why".

I doubt the ISP cares since it gets rated speeds on wire... I even looked up the pod they sent via FCC id.. its intel/ML WAV600.. that means I more or less have 3 different wireless manufacturer hardware brands with the same problem.

So we can ignore wireless, though the issue impacts wireless...

 

[L&LD]

I would try every control channel in between too.

We can't rule out wireless yet, just those two channels.

 

[jasz]

I would try every control channel in between too.

We can't rule out wireless yet, just those two channels.

36 @ 80mhz covers an entire block to 48. If there's interference issues, it would show regardless..

DFS would be innately weaker and the other public 5G 80mhz block from 149-161 would be the same scenario as the 36-48 one.

Again, I'm the only one on 6ghz with the BE800 router (Better than DFS 5Ghz).. Same issue. Wireless is definitely not a problem, at least logically speaking across 3 different vendors of hardware and radio manufacturers.. BCM, QCA, ML/Intel.... (I even forced a higher UNII block here and no dice).

Pulled out an older 4x4 Broadcom AC router and that seems to be "too slow for throughput". It will ramp higher speeds to around 600-700 then drop down significantly in the low 400s for DL. Very strange... only thing I can think of is that the internal radio CPU is slower.. but it doesn't solve the issue either way.

Same AC router in 4x4 media bridge "works" connecting to BE800 @ 4x4 80mhz 1733mbps, but throughput is doubling relative to a 2x2 intel client or phone config.

 

[NoLight]

Definitely doesn't seem to have anything to do with it.

Every Wireless router and even WIFI7 6ghz (no interference locally) has same issue. Prob the reason I posted here instead of the WIFI section, even though it has to do with "WIFI".

Low chance 3-4 different wireless router solutions have the same issue.

Only way wireless "works" is with high throughput 4x4 routers in bridge mode or perfect 2x2 160mhz 2400mbps 1024 QAM... which I assume are the closest "throughput" to matching the RG45 1G port.



Quantum fiber/CL and 5500XK. Which seems to be a rebranded Axon AN5500.

I don't think I can use a SFP adapter as it seems QF uses IPoE and modem/ONT authentication.

Also tried "transparent bridging mode" to BE800/AX86 and have same exact issue.

Main WL router is Wifi7 BE Qualcomm hardware, other is Broadcom AX.

I'm also on Lumen fiber. When you set the SmartNID into transparent bridge mode, are you doing the vlan 201 tagging on it or on your routers? If you haven't tried it, disable it on the C5500XK and have your routers take care of it, to make the SmartNID into as much of a "dumb" ONT as possible.

Have you enabled Lumen's slow IPv6 6RD Tunnel?

Have you done wired speed tests to non Lumen servers? The ISP only cares about what their speed test server says, but maybe something is happening when your traffic leaves their network.

Also have you tried a wired speed test of something that will completely saturate your network for a long time? Like seeding a 20GB+ torrent file?

And is all your equipment connected through ethernet backhaul? Just trying to rule out anything not related to wireless first.

And yah, you have to use their SmartNID/ONT with Lumen.

 

[jasz]

I'm also on Lumen fiber. When you set the SmartNID into transparent bridge mode, are you doing the vlan 201 tagging on it or on your routers? If you haven't tried it, disable it on the C5500XK and have your routers take care of it, to make the SmartNID into as much of a "dumb" ONT as possible.

Have you enabled Lumen's slow IPv6 6RD Tunnel?

Have you done wired speed tests to non Lumen servers? The ISP only cares about what their speed test server says, but maybe something is happening when your traffic leaves their network.

Also have you tried a wired speed test of something that will completely saturate your network for a long time? Like seeding a 20GB+ torrent file?

And is all your equipment connected through ethernet backhaul? Just trying to rule out anything not related to wireless first.

And yah, you have to use their SmartNID/ONT with Lumen.

-Yep. tried both smartNID and and Vlan201 tagging on the BE800 itself. Same problem.

-I have not, but never considered using ipv6... never really messed with it.

-I did wireless and wired speed test to alternative servers in my area. Spectrum, Summit broadband, AT&T.. Same speeds.. 940/940 over wired and high throughput (1733+) wireless 4x4 media bridges.

-I'm connected with the 5500XK ONT to BE800 (or other model when swapped) directly. All wireless options/radios have same results.. Only "works" with high WL throughput close to double of a 1G port.

-I read that CenturyLink side of fiber used to give out pppoe if you wanted to use your own hardware, but QF side is only IPoE/smart nid.. which kind of sucks because I was considering using the SFP port on this router.

-My signal is around RX -20dBm atm.. TX is 2-2.5dBm.. Could neighborhood fiber "splits" be influencing this? Only thing that would make sense in my head.. but I'm not well versed in fiber.

Basically my logical understanding is the ONT/infrastructure isn't pushing enough "power/light" past what's verified on on LAN port.. which is how LUMEN tests speeds.. lol.... IE: 360 pod runs a speed test off cable line.

Light levels around -20 should be fine.. but...

Edit: I'm going to try moving the router location to other side of wall. Maybe some local hardware is influencing my routers, but I don't really see how.

Edit2: Didnt help moving things. Tried 2nd 1G port, same issue..

Same anomaly occurs. Running a 2400mbps AX laptop next to router gets full UL speed then influences other/further devices to push higher than "normal"

Every wireless router does the same thing.

 

[NoLight]

Yep. tried both smartNID and and Vlan201 tagging on the BE800 itself. Same problem.


I have not, but never considered using ipv6... never really messed with it.


I did wireless and wired speed test to alternative servers in my area. Spectrum, Summit broadband, AT&T.. Same speeds.. 940/940 over wired and high throughput (1733+) wireless 4x4 media bridges.


I'm connected with the 5500XK ONT to BE800 (or other model when swapped) directly. All wireless options/radios have same results.. Only "works" with high WL throughput close to double of a 1G port.


I read that CenturyLink side of fiber used to give out pppoe if you wanted to use your own hardware, but QF side is only IPoE/smart nid.. which kind of sucks because I was considering using the SFP port on this router.

my signal is around RX -20dBm atm.. TX is 2-2.5dBm.. Could neighborhood fiber "splits" be influencing this? Only thing that would make sense in my head.. but I'm not well versed in fiber.


Basically my logical understanding is the ONT/infrastructure isn't pushing enough "power/light" past what's verified on a copper LAN cable.. which is how LUMEN tests speeds.. lol.... IE: 360 pod runs a speed test off cable line.

Yah CL fiber is PPPoE, though some areas switched to IPoE before the Quantum brand existed. There is a unsupported way to clone the Calix 8 series ONT to use your own hardware if one is still using them in a PPPoE area.

Are you using the desktop Speedtest app or CLI?

I would try doing the bittorrent test where you fully saturate your upload over for a long period to see if there is any issues there. If that is still fine, i don't think it has anything to do with Lumen.

The ONT converts the fiber light to gigabit ethernet copper, which is why 940mbs is the max even though GPON can go faster. Those signal levels seem good. RX has to be -26 or better, with -21 or better ideally. And TX should be 1.5-5dbm. Older Lumen builds were split 1/64, but newer ones are 1/32.

I get 940/940 pretty much no matter time of day and I think I'm on an old 1/64 build.

 

[jasz]

Yah CL fiber is PPPoE, though some areas switched to IPoE before the Quantum brand existed. There is a unsupported way to clone the Calix 8 series ONT to use your own hardware if one is still using them in a PPPoE area.

Are you using the desktop Speedtest app or CLI?

I would try doing the bittorrent test where you fully saturate your upload over for a long period to see if there is any issues there. If that is still fine, i don't think it has anything to do with Lumen.

The ONT converts the fiber light to gigabit ethernet copper, which is why 940mbs is the max even though GPON can go faster. Those signal levels seem good. RX has to be -26 or better, with -21 or better ideally. And TX should be 1.5-5dbm. Older Lumen builds were split 1/64, but newer ones are 1/32.

I get 940/940 pretty much no matter time of day and I think I'm on an old 1/64 build.

Well.. I'm officially lost. My area is prob newer 1/32... I can't figure this out..

Signal stays below -21 most of the day.. 5500XK does 1G wired no problem most parts of day.

Every wireless router has same issue.. Brand/Radio/firmware doesn't seem to matter as much. Clearly not a wireless/interference issue.. Lumen's own 360 pod has same issue on 2x2 broadcast via WAV600 intel/ML design.

Current readout.

And yea its a rebranded AN5500.

AXON Networks

AXON NETWORKS

www.axon-networks.com

I guess im SOL given the fact that the speed test Lumen sees are from RJ45.. this really makes no sense lol.

 

[glens]

I started following this but got lost. Any way you could provide a summary of your (current) issue?

 

[jasz]

I started following this but got lost. Any way you could provide a summary of your (current) issue?

Wired does 940/940 fine.

Wireless regardless of brand/hardware/radio config needs extremely high throughput config to match 1G RJ-45. I have 4-5 WL routers at my house (most not being used).. All same "issue", regardless of frequency, bonding, channels.

A basic 2x2 80mhz AX client will bottleneck at around 300mbps upload regardless of full 1024 QAM enabled next to router. 1200/1200 connection.. Should at least push 600-800mbps worse case scenario. Other stronger hardware (160mhz AX 2x2 2400mbps or 4x4 media bridge @ 2400/4800mbps) seems to influence throughput of said hardware regardless of nothing else being changed. I can get my full gig on a 256QAM 1733mbps 4x4 AC connection.

Literally makes no sense.. AC, AX, BE hardware all has same problem.. Phones and laptops with different cards/clients outside of intel AX platform share problem.

I can get 940/940 working with media bridge on 4x4 connection with high wireless throughput, but I really want to understand why there's low upload throughput on weaker basic connections right on top of router. It's clearly not the wireless hardware at this point, but the issue impacts wireless... lol.

 

[NoLight]

Well.. I'm officially lost. My area is prob newer 1/32... I can't figure this out..

Signal stays below -21 most of the day.. 5500XK does 1G wired no problem most parts of day.

Every wireless router has same issue.. Brand/Radio/firmware doesn't seem to matter as much. Clearly not a wireless/interference issue.. Lumen's own 360 pod has same issue on 2x2 broadcast via WAV600 intel/ML design.

View attachment 57041

Current readout.

And yea its a rebranded AN5500.

AXON Networks

AXON NETWORKS

www.axon-networks.com

I guess im SOL given the fact that the speed test Lumen sees are from RJ45.. this really makes no sense lol.

Yah is an Axon rebranded from Gemtek. Or maybe Gemtek is a subsidiary of Axon? https://fccid.io/MXF

 

[jasz]

Yah is an Axon rebranded from Gemtek. Or maybe Gemtek is a subsidiary of Axon? https://fccid.io/MXF

Prob OEM? They make the pods too, which was technically based on plumes?

Anyway... I busted out a long 100FT cable. moved router to other side.. Same issue and I'm 5 ft away from main desktop to main PC on intel AX211..

If spectrum had high split enabled on HFC here, I'm pretty sure there would be zero issues for throughput.. LOL.... This is actually confusing me to no end.

 

[Tech9]

All same "issue"

Is this "issue" present only when speed testing the ISP line or also for local traffic?

I use different non-Asus equipment, but getting >700Mbps throughput to my NAS with 2-stream AX client @80MHz wide channel in both directions.

 

[jasz]

Is this "issue" present only when speed testing the ISP line or also for local traffic?

I use different non-Asus equipment, but getting >700Mbps throughput to my NAS with 2-stream AX client @80MHz wide channel in both directions.

Both. UL throughput is lower unless I run a 4x4 router in media bridge for a better connection to main router as an example.

Wired stays 940, even with a 100FT cable across house to other room.

The ONT/Fiber line seems to be influencing my WL hardware or there's an external interference factor going on (that can influence 6ghz hardware with no one near me). I cant figure out how or why.

 

[Tech9]

Both.

So your issue is Wi-Fi related indeed. All the routers with the same issue - perhaps environment related. Perhaps your clients with weaker radios can't ensure high enough SNR at distance for high speed on upload. This is corrected when you are very close to the router and you get the speed. Any possible sources of RF noise around you? Construction site, factory, electrified railway, high voltage power lines, wind turbines, electric car charger, etc?

 

[jasz]

So your issue is Wi-Fi related indeed. All the routers with the same issue - perhaps environment related. Perhaps your clients with weaker radios can't ensure high enough SNR at distance for high speed on upload. This is corrected when you are very close to the router and you get the speed. Any possible sources of RF noise around you? Construction site, factory, electrified railway, high voltage power lines, wind turbines, electric car charger, etc?

It only happens on upload... I dont see the logic right next to router via 6ghz and multiple blocks scaling into 7ghz, but w/e..