Low UL throughput over WIFI on new fiber line.. Normal?

[jasz]

Do you actually notice any issues under normal (not speed test) usage?

On desktops further away with a typical intel 2x2 card?

Yeah... Upload throughput is around 1/3rd (300s) output unless I more or less buffer the connection on 1G LAN (laptop) or with a high throughput WIFI devices as I explained earlier.

It could be a 1G RJ45 cable (plugged in) or 4x4 MIMO router across the house with a solid 256QAM connection straight to main router. I tested uploading dummy files.

Then every other device after gains higher or "normal" throughput regardless of range, and more so limited to the physical hardware. Why? I don't know. Again, this happens every time I buffer the service via LAN or super high throughput wireless devices.

Nothing to do with power control kicking in randomly as tech9 assumed. Every single wireless device has the same throughput gains once connection is buffered... Its illogical.


Edit: disabled wireless on laptop and buffered connection via 1G Lan just now. Throughput quadrupled on phone close range.

Nothing to do with WIFI HARDWARE.

 

[glens]

Okay, I think I finally get what you're saying. "Standard-grade" wireless clients get sub-optimal throughput to/from the Internet until you "kick things into gear" with something (anything) "high-grade", which somehow boosts throughput system-wide.

How about clients to each other, leaving the ONT out of it? Same thing happens?

I don't see how it's possible the ONT can know what's attempting the traffic since it only knows an ethernet connection to the router. I suggest you not concentrate on using only "the highest-power" channels, and while you're at it, investigate what it is you're consistently misconfiguring on the routers and/or clients.

 

[jasz]

Okay, I think I finally get what you're saying. "Standard-grade" wireless clients get sub-optimal throughput to/from the Internet until you "kick things into gear" with something (anything) "high-grade", which somehow boosts throughput system-wide.

How about clients to each other, leaving the ONT out of it? Same thing happens?

I don't see how it's possible the ONT can know what's attempting the traffic since it only knows an ethernet connection to the router. I suggest you not concentrate on using only "the highest-power" channels, and while you're at it, investigate what it is you're consistently misconfiguring on the routers and/or clients.

Tried that. The channels themselves have nothing to do with it, even with clients close to router and on 6ghz spectrum with zero interference. You assume its a misconfigure issue, but it happens on every router I own, regardless of WIFI spectrum.

I'm not just testing a one off router.. it literally happens on everything, regardless of trying to optimize or default HW. I don't understand the ego here? Plus if it was a channel issue, DL rates would be suboptimal, yes? Not the case here, its just upload.

Id assume its possibly sub optimal TX light levels (lower light spectrum than RX) from ONT back to PFP. Receive/DL is fine. It's impossible for me to adjust TX voltages from ONT.

Can ONT be defective? Possible. If I could test with PPPoE and GPON SFP, I would, but I cant because I'm locked down to Lumens HW.

It's Borderline intermittent unless I use a LAN or high throughput wireless config.. which can kick "things into gear" as you say.

Edit:

It seems no one here can explain why buffering a high speed connection over wire impacts wireless throughput on alternative devices.

PS: IPerf performance is fine.

 

[glens]

Not so much ego, but...

Do the clients talk to each other at "good" speed within your network, or do they need a kick-start there too? Let's see if the ONT is even a factor at all in your dilemma.

 

[jasz]

Not so much ego, but...

Do the clients talk to each other at "good" speed within your network, or do they need a kick-start there too? Let's see if the ONT is even a factor at all in your dilemma.

They talk to each other fine.. Did multiple streams with IPerf... That's why I'm pulling my hair out.

I'm at the exact WIFI range limitation I would expect on my furthest PC and I even moved the router closer and got well over a gig throughput.

If i buffer a high speed LAN connection (or high Mimo WL) from router(s), my wireless clients start functioning properly until the speed regresses back down.

It's clearly an infrastructure/ONT issue. I just want to know WHY its doing it

 

[NoLight]

DL speeds are always fine on any router I use that has 160mhz bonding. I get the expected 940mbps. close to router.. Its only upload that has interment transfer rates.

My AC router does something funky where it ramps up speed higher on DL then comes down a little bit, but there's not enough throughput on 80mhz and I assume the CPU side of it is slower. Speeds end up anywhere from 500-700, but again, I don't expect that older router to perform. Still has lower than expected throughput on UL... Works as a media bridge in 4x4 mode (1733mbps) to my BE800.

My BE800 is the best general performer all around at my location though. Current Gen Qualcomm hardware.



I've tried both ISP VLAN tagging and internal on my routers.

It WORKED for like.. 5-10 mins after setting the VLAN tag on the BE800, but then it started doing its low upload throughput crap again. I need to trouble shoot something with rebooting unit because that was the highest throughput I've seen out of my standard 2x2 80mhz devices.

I tried QoS early on. On/off and on both ONT and my router disabled.

MTU should be standard 1500.




The problem is, they wont really see the issue because the line will consistently speed test to LAN... It makes no sense.. really

Maybe find out what the signal levels are for the people who are on the same 1/32 split as you and see if there is any difference? Just to see what everyone else is getting in your area.

I don't know anyone with a C5500XK that has gigabit, but a friend that has the 500mbs plan did some test and with his phone to his AX router he gets a constant 500mbs up.

Even with my AC router I get a constant ~600mbs over wifi.

 

[jasz]

Maybe find out what the signal levels are for the people who are on the same 1/32 split as you and see if there is any difference? Just to see what everyone else is getting in your area.

I don't know anyone with a C5500XK that has gigabit, but a friend that has the 500mbs plan did some test and with his phone to his AX router he gets a constant 500mbs up.

Even with my AC router I get a constant ~600mbs over wifi.

I asked one guy prior on reddit because I had another separate issue that got corrected.. but I guess I could ask again..

What ONT do you have?

6500XK isn't available for me since its for XGS-PON areas only and that one apparently has firmware issues regardless.

I don't think they would give me an older model either since those are being phased out.. hence 5500XK.


And yeah this issue is too consistent.. Just buffering a LAN connection, intermittently fixes wireless throughput on all my other devices.

IPerf testing via multiple streams will do over 1gbps throughput in range limitation.

 

[NoLight]

Yah the C5500XK is the more stable of the two. I assume yours is running the newest firmware? If you've had it in router mode over night it checks for an update.

I have a Calix ONT, i can't remember the model. They allow those of us with them to keep them as long as they continue to work, but for new builds, replacements, or whenever they convert to XGS-PON, they only use the SmartNID now.

 

[glens]

And yeah this issue is too consistent.. Just buffering a LAN connection, intermittently fixes wireless throughput on all my other devices.

This terminology is exactly why I had such a hard time figuring out what you were (trying to) say.

What it sounds like is you're saying the ONT degrades your wireless throughput, but that is patently not the case since I've got you to report that the /wireless throughput/ (actual connectivity between client and its AP, which is the /only/ "wireless throughput" you've got, regardless where the traffic goes from there!) functions normally at all times. At least that's what I understand you to be (also, now) saying.

If that's indeed the case, and I can't fathom how it could be otherwise (how the hell could an ONT affect the "wireless performance" of a downstream AP in /any/ way unless the ONT is also a wireless transmitter?!), you really must leave the word "wireless" completely out of the discussion. It's /totally/ irrelevant. If the ONT is throttling /anything/ it's the /wired/ connection from the router and nothing else.

 

[jasz]

This terminology is exactly why I had such a hard time figuring out what you were (trying to) say.

What it sounds like is you're saying the ONT degrades your wireless throughput, but that is patently not the case since I've got you to report that the /wireless throughput/ (actual connectivity between client and its AP, which is the /only/ "wireless throughput" you've got, regardless where the traffic goes from there!) functions normally at all times. At least that's what I understand you to be (also, now) saying.

If that's indeed the case, and I can't fathom how it could be otherwise (how the hell could an ONT affect the "wireless performance" of a downstream AP in /any/ way unless the ONT is also a wireless transmitter?!), you really must leave the word "wireless" completely out of the discussion. It's /totally/ irrelevant. If the ONT is throttling /anything/ it's the /wired/ connection from the router and nothing else.

Again...

• IPerf multi stream testing proves my network isn't a bottleneck and and sustain over 1gpbs of throughput via AX 2XX intel cards from PC to PC. This also proves my routers, WIFI spectrum, or specific settings are not an issue. I tested this multiple times throughout the day.
• Running any basic speed test through RJ45 gives me my expected 940mbps throughput.
• Running same test over RJ45 ends up boosting wireless throughput for GOD KNOWS WHAT REASON AND WHAT IM TRYING TO UNDERSTAND MYSELF, which is more or less bottlenecked around the 200-300s on basic 2x2 80mhz devices otherwise unless I give it a "nudge". This happens on multiple hardware designs from AC to BE with radios from Both BCM and QCA.
• The ONT isn't "throttled" on wire, but whatever the issue is IMPACTS MY WIRELESS THROUGHPUT.. That's the entire point. Be it ONT to Router(s) or infrastructure issue.

Does it make sense? No, but I've seen variable DL throughput with modern DOCSIS 3.1 Puma and Broadcom hardware (my previous cable company) when paired with certain wireless routers (wire doing same speeds), though it could also be provisioning differences between the two.

I assume something similar is happening here, just TX light signal or defective ONT given the fact that @NoLight more or less confirmed his friends 5500XK works fine without issues.

The issue happens on ISP's "Free" lease pod too with default settings.

I'll have figure out a way to contact quantum/Lumen given they only speed test off wire (lease hw) and their support will claim there is nothing wrong given RX light levels look fine.

 

[glens]

Running same test over RJ45 ends up boosting wireless throughput for GOD KNOWS WHAT REASON AND WHAT IM TRYING TO UNDERSTAND MYSELF, which is more or less bottlenecked around the 200-300s on basic 2x2 80mhz devices otherwise unless I give it a "nudge".

Ends up boosting throughput TO / FROM THE INTERNET to your wireless clients, not boosting wireless throughput WITHIN YOUR LAN. Correct? The ACTUAL wireless throughput between any client and any AP, even client-to-client THROUGH the AP, remains intact in all circumstances, correct? If indeed, then, again, please leave the confusing (topic-muddying) mention of "wireless" off the table.

 

[NoLight]

I would recommend asking on the Centurylink subreddit. And messeging the imtalkintou account. That's how the 10Gb port issue got sent to engineering and fixed on the C6500XK

 

[jasz]

I would recommend asking on the Centurylink subreddit. And messeging the imtalkintou account. That's how the 10Gb port issue got sent to engineering and fixed on the C6500XK

Yeah probably going to have to..

I've run the router to legitimately isolated rooms and its doing the same thing. Wireless transfer rates on my network remain stable and high.

If I unplug ONT for 10mins, speeds go back to normal without RJ45 nudging it..

Unless its some kind of funky EMI near ONT, nothing else is logical from my point of view.

 

[glens]

Unless its some kind of funky EMI near ONT,

I must confess that possibility had also crossed my mind at some point. Got some aluminum foil handy?

 

[jasz]

I must confess that possibility had also crossed my mind at some point. Got some aluminum foil handy?

Unpluging and Replug GPON connector fixes throughput similar to RJ45, but its the same limited duration. Foil doesn't seem to do anything.

If I entertain that it is WIFI, I'm still not understanding why it only impacts upload speeds (DL is completely fine) from the ONT and on 6-7ghz unrestricted spectrum.

 

[glens]

It's ONT upload that gets "stuck" is what I hear you describing. But maybe I'm even yet not grokking what you're saying...

 

[jasz]

It's ONT upload that gets "stuck" is what I hear you describing. But maybe I'm even yet not grokking what you're saying...

Because were going in circles.

But yes, "stuck" is a fine way to describe it.

Still cant fathom how there's interference from WIFI given the situation. EMI? Maybe.... But It would have to be electrical wiring.

 

[glens]

Circling back around yet again, if it's not the WiFi performance, proper, that's being affected (and it still sounds to me like that's what you're reporting), then it isn't EMI from the ONT.

Simplest solution I can think of is to have a premises tech swing by with another ONT and see if the problem persists.

 

[jasz]

Circling back around yet again, if it's not the WiFi performance, proper, that's being affected (and it still sounds to me like that's what you're reporting), then it isn't EMI from the ONT.

Simplest solution I can think of is to have a premises tech swing by with another ONT and see if the problem persists.

Nothing else makes sense from a technical aspect. The WIFI works as expected (every router) if I trickle the GPON plug... which is weird given LAN always pegs max throughput.

Edit: WIFI performance is variable depending on device being used (I assume due to power limits and my other routers working as high powered adapters), but the entire 5-7ghz spectrum is impacted by this issue. Every single channel block.

I'm sorry for being a skeptic, but I don't see how this is local radio interference (especially 6ghz+) outside of general EMI from something connected to my house or next door.
---
Edit2 : WIRED LAN Performance is now bottlenecking... intermittently.. 300s. Could just be congestion, but its the same general area where WL is bottlenecking.
----
Edit3 : Remote speed testing to ONT from app or ISP directly (998mbps internally) results in the connection boosting all wireless devices to normal expected performance. Similar to what RJ45 was doing.

So we have two theories:

1) Either there's something close impacting WL throughput on upload specifically.. (which doesn't make sense to me given download is fine, but okay...). ONT ends up overpowering interference impacting "upload" once max throughput is triggered via LAN or remote testing.

2) Or the QF 5500XK model ONT is part of the problem.. directly or indirectly. Prob some kind of EMI overall given the fact that the entire public 5-7ghz spectrum has the same issue.

Using the AX86 in media bridge AP mode results in normal RX/TX levels back to main router.... and that's on a more congested 5Ghz spectrum. So confusing.

Edit 4: Did more testing. AX86U refuses to push throughput over WIFI right next to laptop. My laptop that can grab signal on BE800 for full throughput fails on the AX ASUS router. Both are using 5G AX protocol on same control channel.

Throughput is fine on AX86U with connection is "nudged" via remote test to modem.

Running speed test from Low spectrum 5G on BE800 > Laptop ***indirectly*** boost mid spectrum 6G throughput on a PC in another room.

This not logical in regards to WI-FI interference. Please explain how low 5.2ghz spectrum would indirectly boost a 6.3ghz channel?

Nothing points to WIFI... Good RSSI, noise floor.. good RX/TX rates across house.. Nothing out of the ordinary. Speeds are as expected if I nudge ONT.

 

[jasz]

Final update: it's 100% LUMEN ISP or hardware issue on their end.

Transparent bridge mode started bottlenecking upload throughput on ***wired*** after around 2 days. Factory resetting ONT back to default *router mode* was the only way to fix it.

I already had LUMEN swap my original ONT, but the new one has the same problem. Only benefit of replacement seems to be that it reads a slightly better RX rate with same hotwire -18 dBm reading.

I ended up finding another person on Reddit that has the EXACT same issue that I do when it comes to how the the SmartNID/ONT pushes throughput over WI-FI. Were both in the same metropolitan area.. and yes. It's the same general UL throughput limitations of around 200-400 when the service decides to "throttle" when "inactive".

We don't know what's causing it, but the 5500XK ONT is definitely a factor into how upload throughput ends up working

Why do I say this?

• Router mode and running a remote speed test via SmartNID/ONT seems to PUSH the network in my favor and will show expected throughput numbers at almost any point of day... Remote speed testing requires ONT to be in default router mode..
• Transparent bridge mode prevents LUMEN themselves from seeing the ONT from support end. This is the same case for my Quantum Fiber app and remote speed testing the unit itself (990-1G limit pre copper port throughput).
• If the network is being bogged down.. there's no way for the ONT to artificially boost speed... Catch22 ... LUMEN/Quantum Fiber Support can argue that nothing is wrong, when there clearly is.... and it's a repeating cycle of misplacing blame on user or "WI-FI".

I don't know if this impacts every area, but the 5500XK unit is clearly a key factor to what is going on here.. I'm open to faulty configuration of local hardware controlled by LUMEN giving the other guy lives in the same surrounding area.

Not all LUMEN hardware is impacted either as I have a friend who lives a few miles down on Quantum Fiber XGS-PON + 65000XK SmartNID/ONT. 8000/8000 rated limit and it works completely fine for his basic 500/500 plan... no UL bottleneck. Can't comment on higher speeds as he doesn't pay for them, but he gets his full plan while I clearly do not.. No one is even on my GPON split at 2-5AM, yet it throttles when "inactive".

Anyway.. W-FI never made sense giving my RX/TX rates, noise levels, RSSI and subjective testing were always fine. The entire 5-7ghz Spectrum also wouldn't be impacted.. Why you guys kept pushing that is beyond me... I knew what was wrong early on and is the sole reason I posted in router sub section.

How the ONT/SmartNID can detect high throughput hardware is a question in itself... but its kind of obvious now that Wired is being bottlenecked to a higher degree.

Calling for a ONT/NID speed test just ends up redistributing bandwidth to me... Support will check your house and see that nothing is wrong. It's really scummy if I'm right about this.

Cant fix it other than bark at ISP 24/7... Guess my issue is *solved* giving I can't really do anything about it unless I can somehow contact someone higher up than basic support.

Thanks to everyone who tried to help!