Moca in UK advice needed - novice!!!!

[Robster]

Hi

Really looking for some advice. I am moving house soon and I have been told there are arial sockets in all the bedrooms (one of which will be an office) plus 2 in the lounge fed from an amplifier in the loft.

I was initially planning on trying to use Homeplug type adapters to give me networking through the house but have never found them to be hugely reliable but okay for some limited use.

I have stumbled across Moca which appears to be very similar to our arial cables except they have different connecters.

I really don't need arial sockets as almost everything we watch is streamed or SkyQ, so networking is far more important than arial for TV.

I also plan on using this as a backhaul for my Synology Routers one on each of the two floors for meshed WIFI

Questions.

Do I have to change all the connectors or will simple plugin converters do the job, is there ea simple step by step guide (for UK users) to getting this all set up and working.

Is there anything I really must look out for???

Any and all help advice will be hugely appreciated.

Robin

 

[ColinTaylor]

See this thread here: https://www.snbforums.com/threads/moca-in-uk.81455/post-855379

The OP of that thread never posted a follow up so I don't know whether anything came of it.

 

[Robster]

Thanks, I did see this thread before I posted my own question, as I did not see any follow up from them and a lot of suggested items where from Amazon USA and not sure if they are appropriate to UK.

Also I am not sure if I can simply use an adapter to change a UK arial connection to the Moca type connection or if this would significantly impact performance.

Also , looking at some of the distribution blocks, if I am not connecting an arial, does anything actually go in the input, or do I just connect all the cables in my loft to the outputs and leave the input empty?

Robin

 

[degrub]

if you need to go from one aerial segment to another segment then you would need to remove and connect the two coax cables with a barrel union or replace the amp/splitter with a moca 2 certified splitter.

if my understanding is correct, aerial connections were for satellite receiver based tv ? If so, the coax cable should be the equivalent to US RG-6 coax. This is perfect for moca.

the wall plate connection is probably best addressed by obtaining a coax cable suitable for aerial usage and cutting off one end, re-terminating with a US style coax connector for RG-6 which will match up with the moca modem connection. You will need to invest in a quality termination crimp tool and connectors. Check the cable outer cover, shield, and inner insulator outer diameters versus the US RG6

you will need to do the same if you need to buy a new moca splitter to replace the satellite splitter/amp in the attic. However, i would test with a pair of moca 2.5 modems to see if you have to. satellite frequencies in the US are higher than moca, so it may not work. Check the frequencies used for the UK satellite tv services. Moca operates between 1125 and 1675 MHz. US satellite ( direct tv) operates at 2.x GHz area.

 

[Robster]

In UK aerial cables were not used for satellite but for over the air tv, satellite cables when used were routed direct from dish to the satellite box, never to any other networking.

 

[Robster]

I have an email with this replay but cannot see it in this thread?

TV coax is thinner, lighter on the screening, and is 75ohm. Satellite coax is heavier, double screened and is 50ohm.
So if it's TV coax it'll be lossy due to the screening (may also interfere with other devices) and will suffer injection loss due to the impedance mi's-match.

My question is, has anyone had success in using Moca with UK TV aerial cabling or am I just going to be wasting my time even trying?

I was hoping at minimum to be able to set up an ethernet backhaul for my two routers/Mesh to improve performance around the house but this is sounding less and less likely.

 

[Ripshod]

I have an email with this replay but cannot see it in this thread?

Yeah. It's hard to reference large tables on a mobile device. Turned out I'd got the wrong impedence column (rg58 and rg59 were right next to each other)

 

[Robster]

Hi Ripshod, sorry I am not sure I understand your last message?

Looking back the email I received ws also from you but for some reason I can not see it in this thread.

 

[Robster]

QUESTION

I am getting emails from this thread that show responses to the thread, but when I press the button to see the response within this thread it does not exist?

Others work fine and I can see the response.

Am I doing something wrong or is there a problem with this form software?

 

[Ripshod]

Hi Ripshod, sorry I am not sure I understand your last message?

Looking back the email I received ws also from you but for some reason I can not see it in this thread.

I could have been clearer. I deleted the reply because it was wrong.
Need caffeine.

 

[Robster]

Ahhhh, okay that makes sense!

So do you think I can get Moca to work over the UK aerial cabling after all?

I don't want to spend a load of money if there is no chance of it working but I am hoping it wool give me faster and more reliable data transfer speeds than trying the Homeplug type solution.

 

[Ripshod]

I think the UK tv coax would be totally unsuitable due to it's lossyness. The construction is what we used to call "air spaced" rather than the solid insulator (dielectric) used in better cables. I also believe the coax is only rated up to 1GHz - all that was needed for uhf tv.
Open one of the TV points and inspect the cable. If it looks like normal TV coax then that's what it is. Myself I like to install satellite coax because it's more robust and has the better screening, but most sparks/builders/diyers go for the cheap option.

 

[Robster]

Hmmm, so are you saying, that even if I do not use the cable as an aerial, but dedicate it to Moca, I still won't be able to use the cable?

I won't be able to check the cabling until I actually move in!

 

[Ripshod]

I'm saying it may work but the odds are against it. You may be lucky though. Unless you know a radio engineer or ham there's options open to you other than either just hoping it's satellite coax, running new coax, or just buying all the MoCa kit and trying it. I know, not really helpful.

 

[degrub]

RG59 has worked ok in the US for moca 2. Same 75 ohm termination as RG6. You may not get full speed, but if you can get past the connector issue and change out the splitter in the attic, it should work, perhaps at slightly slower speeds. Recent thread where tv splitter 0-1000 MHz in the path - moca was running half speed.

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RG58 may work for very short runs as it has high losses at 1-2 GHz. That may exceed the typical modem power of 40 dB.

 

[degrub]

if you will only have a couple runs you need in the new house, compare the cost of all the above with having an alarm installer or an electrician install new RG6 or equal 75 ohm cable and terminate it yourself.

 

[Epistone]

I saw this post is only a couple of months ago and don’t see any follow up.
I’ve installed MoCA 2.5 in the UK using the structured cable installed in my house.
My house is 25 years old and I am the first occupier, so the cable in the walls is that old.
It runs from two rooms (Living room ground floor and bedroom first floor) to our loft and connects to a loft aerial. I have all of our TV’s wall mounted and upstairs just dropped fresh aerial cable from the loft for the bedrooms and downstairs ran it under the floor from the living room wall sock location.
For years the internet has been poor here with only copper service that from the availability of FTTC has been poor with only 14Mbps down and barely 1Mbps up.
I moved to 4G a couple of years ago (mainly as a necessity during the Pandemic for working from home) and got improved speeds of 60Mbps down and 30Mbps up, but latency was quite high.
In March this year I moved to 5G service when it became available and enjoyed lower latency and higher speeds.
Fibre finally got installed late summer into early autumn and became available to order on October this year. I went for the Plusnet 900Mbps service.
I use Netgear Orbi routers to get the bandwidth around the house, but was disappointed even with their Wifi 6 series that the backhaul wasn’t great and I wasn’t getting the full bandwidth to my office upstairs. So I came across MoCA and visited this site for advice.
I went ahead anyway even with the lack of confirmation of anyone successfully deploying MoCA 2.5 on old UK OTA coaxial cabling and bought a pair of GoCoax adapters from Amazon (they come with UK power adapters), and a pair of MoCA compatible splitters.
I tested them with a length of RG6 cable first from the router to a Laptop and then from the ONT to the Router and got full bandwidth
I then connected them to the wall socket in the living room to the bedroom and through the wall to the office using the splitters, some adapters and did some testing.
Results weren’t great at first with upstairs in the office only getting 200 to 300Mbps
I tested from the Living room to the loft and through the splitter and results were good – Full Gb no problem – so I pulled some fresh RG6 through on the end of the old bedroom coax cable and tried again with better results.
I ended up removing the UK socket connections from the faceplates (one in the bedroom had a weird circuit board on it) and just passing the cables through the faceplate holes using the satellite F-Plug style connections throughout to get the best results and now I can get the full bandwidth with no fluctuations. The main cable from the living room to loft was heavier and shielded, but the section from the bedroom (that I replaced) to the loft was not, seemed a lot lighter and cheaper and was very lossy.
I’m happy with the end result, I can now utilise the full bandwidth in my office and I’ve moved the router there too so I only have the BT ONT and the MoCA in the living room and hidden discretely in a corner behind a sofa.

 

[krkaufman]

Great post, good info. Thanks for sharing.

bought a pair of GoCoax adapters from Amazon (they come with UK power adapters)

Ah, nice tip for the “.co.uk” crowd. What splitters did you select?


So you replaced the thinner coax cable before replacing the circuit-boarded wallplate? Would have been interesting to see the results of replacing the wallplate-only first, since that’s an easier change for most people.


Only comments/thoughts Re: (excellent) diagram:
* a 70 dB “PoE” MoCA filter on the input port of the attic 2-way splitter would block MoCA signals from hitting and emanating from the antenna, and would improve the MoCA network efficiency.

 

[Epistone]

Hi KrKaufman
I tested the section of coax cable without the wall plate (results were poor having been good right up to the splitter exit in the loft) before replacing the cable. I decided to get rid of the circuit board and UK connector and connect the cable together with F-Plugs and a joiner. The faceplate had seen better days and was a bit loose fitting. The last leg that goes to the office is actually thinner but well shielded RG59 and tested OK.

The splitters are these ones on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CHWB73X1/?tag=smallncom-21

Thanks for the Tip on the POE filter - I'll look at adding one of those in line with the antenna.

 

[krkaufman]

Thanks for the Tip on the POE filter - I'll look at adding one of those in line with the antenna.

Your MoCA network would be better served, and the signals restricted as needed, with the "PoE" MoCA filter installed directly on the input port of the 2-way splitter in the attic. This install location best retains the reflective performance benefit of the "PoE" MoCA filter.

That said, if/when you want to expand your MoCA network beyond the coax lines downstream of the 2-2-way attic splitter, sure, the "PoE" MoCA filter would likely require relocation.

The splitters are these ones on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CHWB73X1/?tag=smallncom-21

> Justech TV Aerial Splitter 2 Way Gold Plated Coaxial Splitter MoCA 5-2500MHz with 1.5m Coax Cable F Plugs for Sky Box Telewest Eurovox Starview Dreambox

I don't see any actual specs to review, but from the description ... that the splitter is designed primarily for satellite service ... I wouldn't call it MoCA-optimized and only "MoCA-compatible" so long as the setup is simple enough that the presumed sub-optimal specs (relative to MoCA) don't push path loss over the MoCA allowed max of 57 dB.

Related: MoCA-compatible splitter recommendations (… and warnings)

Tough enough to get MoCA adapters in the UK, I expect, so getting splitters optimized for MoCA is probably asking too much.