MoCA in UK

[Mithrandir]

HI,

I am based in the UK, and am looking into using MoCA to replace my PowerLine adaptors due to having FTTP installed (I have Coax sockets in all required rooms used for UK TV).

Amazon sell the GoCoax 2.5 adaptors, which are the ones I am looking at, however, in my loft I have an 8-way amplifier and splitter combination, and old VideoLab T103C. The only info I can find states a frequency range of 40-890Mhz.
GoCoax said their adaptors may well work, but if they don't, am I better off getting a new amp, with one input and one output, then put a MoCA compatible splitter on the output as all the amplifier \ splitter combos I can find in the UK have the same frequency range.

Thanks

 

[OzarkEdge]

HI,

I am based in the UK, and am looking into using MoCA to replace my PowerLine adaptors due to having FTTP installed (I have Coax sockets in all required rooms used for UK TV).

Amazon sell the GoCoax 2.5 adaptors, which are the ones I am looking at, however, in my loft I have an 8-way amplifier and splitter combination, and old VideoLab T103C. The only info I can find states a frequency range of 40-890Mhz.
GoCoax said their adaptors may well work, but if they don't, am I better off getting a new amp, with one input and one output, then put a MoCA compatible splitter on the output as all the amplifier \ splitter combos I can find in the UK have the same frequency range.

Thanks

I would use equipment rated for TV and MoCA 2.5 frequencies, 5-1675MHz or better, wherever you need MoCA to pass.

I would use a -70dB LPF/POE filter wherever you want to block MoCA signals such as at an ISP WAN cable, OTA TV antenna, and perhaps at media center equipment in case it doesn't tolerate MoCA(?).

I recently added MoCA 2.5 over an existing OTA TV coax... works well:

Preparing to buy a set of MoCA 2.5 adapters...

I'm about to order a set of ScreenBeam MoCA 2.5 adapters ECB7250: Amazon.com: ScreenBeam Bonded MoCA 2.5 Network Adapter for Highest Speed Internet, Ethernet Over Coax - Starter Kit (Model: ECB7250K02) ScreenBeam appears to be a retail outlet for Actiontec(?), so I'm assuming these adapters...

www.snbforums.com

OE

 

[krkaufman]

am I better off getting a new amp, with one input and one output, then put a MoCA compatible splitter on the output

Yes, but with a “PoE” MoCA filter installed directly on the splitter’s input port, between the splitter and amp.

If the amp is for antenna signal, it’s best moved closer to the signal source, anyway.

I would use a -70dB LPF/POE filter

Concur. (example)

 

[Mithrandir]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

As there doesn't appear to be any amplifier \ splitter combos in the UK, I guess I am looking at something like (sorry about crude diagram):

With the amp being a 1 source and 1 output.?

I'm guessing I should try with my current setup first, just in case it works?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

As there doesn't appear to be any amplifier \ splitter combos in the UK, I guess I am looking at something like (sorry about crude diagram):


View attachment 45012

With the amp being a 1 source and 1 output.?

I'm guessing I should try with my current setup first, just in case it works?

All splitters passing MoCA must be rated for MoCA frequencies. So in your diagram, all splitters should be labeled MoCA splitters.

OE

 

[Mithrandir]

All splitters passing MoCA must be rated for MoCA frequencies. So in your diagram, all splitters should be labeled MoCA splitters.

OE

Thank you for your help.

 

[degrub]

Is the ISP or cable tv provider using the coax at all ?

 

[Mithrandir]

Is the ISP or cable tv provider using the coax at all ?

Hi, the only thing the coax is used for is over the air TV (freeview)

 

[degrub]

Then any device that the moca signal passes through has to be rated MOCA 2 compatible., bidirectional.
If you are adding splitter, make sure you have enough dB budget on the TV signal as you will loose at least an additional 3.5 db for a 2 way splitter/combiner, ~6-7 dB for 3 way, etc. + the 3.5 db for the POE filter.

 

[krkaufman]

I'm guessing I should try with my current setup first, just in case it works?

It *would* be interesting to see if it does, and whether and to what degree it may be hobbled … checking the MoCA diagnostics and with a little bit of LAN speed testing.


Food for thought Re: the above diagram, the splitters at the endpoint locations, specifically… MoCA adapters with RF pass-through ports use an internal diplexer to splice the signals where needed with less loss than would occur using a simple splitter. If not using MoCA adapters with RF pass-through ports, you can still save the few dB loss enroute to each TV through the use of an antenna/satellite diplexer, owing to the diplexer pass- and stop-bands overlapping relative to the Freeview and MoCA signals:

• Freeview: 470-800 MHz
• Diplexer ANT port: 40-806 MHz
• ———
• MoCA (Ext Band D): 1125-1675 MHz
• Diplexer SAT port: 950-2150 MHz

Diplexer specs for Holland DPD2 (preferred)​

Freeview specs per this page​

If the couple dB matter, anyway. Otherwise, it’s “designed for MoCA 2.x” splitters all around.

all splitters should be labeled MoCA splitters

Just be wary of a satellite splitter in MoCA’s clothing.

+ the 3.5 db for the POE filter.

A MoCA filter *shouldn’t* have that much insertion loss for its pass-band (within which the OTA signals sit); should be below 1 dB. (example)

Speaking of the “PoE” MoCA filter, it’ll be optimally located directly on the input port of the main splitter. (see pgs. 17-24 of this “MoCA basics” slide set, making sure not to skip pg. 24; the presentation is also quite helpful for understanding calculating the path loss at MoCA frequencies)

 

[OzarkEdge]

MoCA adapters with RF pass-through ports use an internal diplexer to splice the signals where needed with less loss than would occur using a simple splitter.

From my recent shopping, I concluded that the RF passthrough port was not being included on MoCA 2.5 adapters, presumably for technical/cost reasons related to 2.5GbE. So I planned for using external splitters.

The real point here is don't prefer MoCA adapters with the second RF port convenience if they are not MoCA 2.5.

OE

 

[krkaufman]

From my recent shopping, I concluded that the RF passthrough port was not being included on MoCA 2.5 adapters, presumably for technical/cost reasons related to 2.5GbE. So I planned for using external splitters.

A few MoCA 2.5 adapters include a pass-through port, most notably the Motorola MM1025.

And, yeah, it could be omitted for technical reasons, such as the evolving DOCSIS spec’s frequency range moving beyond the common 5-1002 MHz pass-band; but it’s probably a combination of factors, including incremental cost and the support hassle of people connecting their adapters via the wrong coax port, or trying to string additional MoCA nodes off the pass-through port. (from a few days ago)

p.s. maybe @gocoax would care to offer some insight as to why their 2.5 GbE adapters discarded the pass-through port found in the earlier WF-803M.

 

[krkaufman]

The real point here is don't prefer MoCA adapters with the second RF port convenience if they are not MoCA 2.5.

Wholly agree. This guy was headed that way.

 

[AmigaRfModulator]

Love to know how OP got on with this and the Aerial amplifier?

If not I'll probably start a new thread. Moca info is very hard to find in the UK.

 

[AmigaRfModulator]

This is quite a common setup in the UK an aerial into a booster/amplifier then supplying the other rooms of the house.


Say I had an 4 output booster/amplifier And I fed fed the output of a MoCA along 1 of the Outputs of the Booster- would it appear along the other 3 Outputs?
I'm a bit reluctant to Test it out as I could damage the the booster/amplifier?

 

[krkaufman]

Say I had an 4 output booster/amplifier And I fed fed the output of a MoCA along 1 of the Outputs of the Booster- would it appear along the other 3 Outputs?

Your odds of success would improve were it an amplifier designed to support MoCA with a built-in “PoE” MoCA filter. Alternatively, an in-line amp followed by a designed for MoCA 2.x splitter with “PoE” MoCA filter on its input port.

 

[AmigaRfModulator]

Hi, Thanks again for replying, can you recommend a amplifier - I guessing it's going to have to come from Holland?

With the recommended MoCA compliment amplifier I can feed the output of the MoCA to one of the outputs of the Amplifier - is that correct?

If I understand correctly your second suggestion is an amplifier with just 1 output then feeding the rooms from a MoCA compliment splitter.



My concern there with a single Amplifier is the Analogue RF channels not having enough power to be distributed to the rooms.

 

[ColinTaylor]

I guessing it's going to have to come from Holland?

Just to be clear, that was a reference to a product made by Holland Electronics LLC in California, not Holland the European country.

MoCa isn't really "a thing" in the UK. As I'm sure you know none of the normal companies (ebuyer, scan, broadbandbuyer, etc.) sell MoCa devices. You can get some stuff through Amazon UK but almost all of it is imported from Amazon US or dodgy Chinese sellers.

 

[krkaufman]

With the recommended MoCA compliment amplifier I can feed the output of the MoCA to one of the outputs of the Amplifier - is that correct?

Yes. Most “designed for MoCA” amps will have a “PoE” MoCA filter blocking communication between the input port and outputs, but MoCA should be able to flow between output ports.

You could try it with your current amp but YMMV. (And you’d want a MoCA filter on the amp input to block MoCA signals from hitting the antenna.)

If I understand correctly your second suggestion is an amplifier with just 1 output then feeding the rooms from a MoCA compliment splitter.
My concern there with a single Amplifier is the Analogue RF channels not having enough power to be distributed to the rooms.

Yes, but with a MoCA filter on the splitter’s input port. The in-line amp’s gain should be chosen to compensate for the splitter attenuation to replicate your current setup (assuming satisfactory tuning).

This in-line amp suggestion was intended as a fallback should you not be able to find a suitable “designed for MoCA” amp.

Just to be clear, that was a reference to a product made by Holland Electronics LLC in California, not Holland the European country.

Chuckle. The ambiguity did have me wondering.

 

[krkaufman]

can you recommend a amplifier

Not from first-hand experience, but the following fit the bill:

• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086R3HCF2/?tag=snbforums-20
• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076BK1F86/?tag=snbforums-20
• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077BCHVWZ/?tag=snbforums-20
• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08YMTTLXH/?tag=snbforums-20
• https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09C2R9VJC/?tag=snbforums-20