Need fast connection over short distance in noisy RF environment

[james_c]

Hi all, I'm looking to replace my router and would appreciate any suggestions.
Background:
I live in an apartment building in NYC and I have an abundance of sources of RF interference.
Unfortunately my desktop and cable modem are 12ft apart in adjacent rooms so I have to use wifi and can't wire it. Currently the modem/NAS/roku/appletv etc all sit together and are wired to the router.
The desktop is in the other room and connects over wifi.
I don't need to able to handle multiple high traffic users simultaneously.
I don't really care about the cost but do care about the value for money ... don't want to pay 2x more for just 10% better performance. I'd rather pay 1x now and 1x again in 2 years.

I was thinking the TP-LINK AC3150 and ASUS PCE-AC88 would be a good combo.
Or should I do two TP-LINK AC3150's with one in bridge mode and then physically move the NAS beside the PC so that it's very fast but still accessible to all devices?
It doesn't seem like I'll get materially faster speeds from something like two Nighthawk R8500 and it can cost up to twice as much?

Much appreciated on any advice.

 

[L&LD]

If you're willing to spend the money for two TP-Link AC3150's, I would instead suggest an Asus RT-AC1900P or an Asus RT-AC3100 plus an Asus RT-AC56U (as the bridge, with the equipment in the adjacent room physically wired to the 'AC56U).

All running RMerlin's firmware, of course (or the forks, thereof).

You may even find that a single router may be enough for your usage.

But I would recommend getting two 'full' routers than a router plus adaptor or dedicated AP, any day.

 

[pete y testing]

I was thinking the TP-LINK AC3150 and ASUS PCE-AC88 would be a good combo.
Or should I do two TP-LINK AC3150's with one in bridge mode and then physically move the NAS beside the PC so that it's very fast but still accessible to all devices?


Much appreciated on any advice.

i wouldnt bother with 2 3150 as they dont have any bridge mode

the 3150 and 88u would give you the fastest speeds

or

get the netgear orbi

and the sat connects to your comp via ethernet and you get a really good connection and speed

pete

 

[pete y testing]

But I would recommend getting two 'full' routers than a router plus adaptor or dedicated AP, any day.

why as it doesnt give you any speed or throughput benefit

i have tested an 88u with a media bridged 5300 and its no faster than the rt-ac88u and the pce-ac88u at the same distances , you simply gain nothing as far as coverage goes ether

if your going to run a router and media bridge you going to pay the same if not more than the orbi

 

[L&LD]

Why is because two good/great routers is worth more than an AP. In my experience, the performance, stability and latency is much better than any AP, extender or adaptor I've ever had or used too.

I would still prefer this setup over the Orbi in this specific case (the Orbi will just pollute the airwaves more with it's additional radios).

Again, I want to mention that for the short distances involved, a single (current) router would probably be sufficient, depending on the specific layout of the devices and how they'll be connected.

OP, can you give us a rough sketch of the layout?

 

[pete y testing]

Why is because two good/great routers is worth more than an AP. In my experience, the performance, stability and latency is much better than any AP, extender or adaptor I've ever had or used too.

but you havnt use the pce-ac88 yet though so it would be hard to actually compare , as i have suggested under controlled tests i cant see much difference at all

the Orbi will just pollute the airwaves more with it's additional radios

all of which are on the same channels so i cant see your point here

a single (current) router would probably be sufficient, depending on the specific layout of the devices and how they'll be connected.

would agree but to get the speed he would also need the pce-ac88

12ft apart in adjacent rooms

prob hardly need a sketch , pron the only question is what that wall is made of between the rooms

pete

 

[james_c]

Thanks all for the responses ... very helpful. Apologies for not responding sooner ... 3 hrs trying to figure out Asus model number soup.

As for layout the TWC coax out is in the living room and the other coax out's are in horrible places, so the coax runs to a Surfboard SB6183 (modem only), then CAT5 to an ancient DIR-825 and then there is the NAS, Roku, appleTV and a console all wired to the DIR-825 LAN ports. They are all jammed in a media cabinet which is horrible for both heat and signal - then multiple HDMI outs to the TV that sits on top of the cabinet.
In the office which is 12ft away, through a non load bearing wall (studs and drywall), there is a DAP-1522 access point and I run CAT5 from that to the PC which is right beside it. So all the old network hardware is junk and needs to go.

L&LD, I like your idea of the Asus RT-AC1900P and the RT-AC56U with the NAS and the PC both on CAT5 to the 56U in the office and then everything else on the AC1900P in the living room. I can move the AC1900P out of the cabinet and put it either beside or behind the TV if it will help with signal quality. I would get the RT-AC3100 but that thing really needs to be buried out of sight, plus I don't know if it adds anything. Same for Orbi - I feel like it's going to be slower on the office to modem link and it's not going to add anything to coverage by having the satellite 12ft away. Totally open to correction on that.
Also, with the Orbi you only get 3 LAN ports on the main unit (not end of the world), but aren't the router/firewall features a bit limited too?
Finally I was thinking that with the PCE-AC88, even if the speed is the same, I guess you have no option to move the NAS over to the office ... so thats a big drawback ... or in general you can't connect other wired devices from the office. I thought maybe the AC88 is much faster than a bridge but if that's not the case then the bridge seems like a more flexible solution.

Again, thanks all for the input.

 

[james_c]

Just to clarify, the 12ft is exactly 12ft antenna to antenna between the AP and router. Also worth noting that Amazon have the RT-AC56U for $75 post-rebate and I saw the AC1900P for $180-ish but who knows what level of confusion exists on seller side with the model numbers. Either way the 56U/AC1900P solution costs about $250. It's really the NAS access that I need the fast connection for ... but I'm not sure there is a meaningfully faster solution out there for a single user use case? ... i.e. if i spend 2x can I get a much better experience pulling files from the NAS to my laptop over wifi?

 

[pete y testing]

but aren't the router/firewall features a bit limited too?

its actually got a half decent firewall and better than the tp link stuff

I thought maybe the AC88 is much faster than a bridge but if that's not the case then the bridge seems like a more flexible solution.

depends on what media bridge you use

if you have a 2156M main router and the pce-ac88 you going to get close to 100Mb/s at close range

if you have a 2156M main router and a 2156M media beidge you going to get somewhere close to 100MB/s

however if you have

2156M main router and a 1900ac media bridge its going to be more like 60MB/s

2156M main router and a 867M media bridge its going to be more like 40MB/s

the simple thought process here is the slowest device sets the speed

whereas the orbi has test out at about 60MB/s over its 1733M backbone

with the Orbi you only get 3 LAN ports on the main unit (not end of the world)

you need more ports you just add a cheap $15 giga switch

pete

 

[pete y testing]

56U/AC1900P solution costs about $250. It's really the NAS access that I need the fast connection for ... but I'm not sure there is a meaningfully faster solution out there for a single user use case?

so again the slowest device sets the speed and in this case it would be the rt-ac56u with its 867M 5 gig media bridge , its prob the slowest solution we have been talking about

i.e. if i spend 2x can I get a much better experience pulling files from the NAS to my laptop over wifi?

see my above post as the answer is no you wont get twice the speed but it will be faster proportionately

 

[L&LD]

but you havnt use the pce-ac88 yet though so it would be hard to actually compare , as i have suggested under controlled tests i cant see much difference at all



all of which are on the same channels so i cant see your point here


would agree but to get the speed he would also need the pce-ac88



prob hardly need a sketch , pron the only question is what that wall is made of between the rooms

pete

Again, performance wise, it may be the same. But thinking into the future (and the next post, how the OP actually wants to use the network and clients), an adaptor is very limiting versus a full on router (along with their 1/4 Wan/Lan ports).

The Orbi doesn't use the same channels for the backhaul. 5GHz high (backhaul) and 5GHz low (for clients) as I understand it.

The OP (in the next post after the one I am quoting here) has clarified how he has (and more important) how he can rearrange his devices to get him the 'single user speed' he is looking for. So yes, a sketch is not needed anymore.

While the performance may be better (wirelessly) for the PCE-AC88 adaptor than the RT-AC56U I am suggesting. It pales to the performance, low latency and stability of a PC + NAS wired directly to even an RT-AC56U on the LAN ports.

Not to mention once again the flexibility of having an actual router in your arsenal of networking products versus just an adaptor (and at a significant cost savings too).

 

[L&LD]

Thanks all for the responses ... very helpful. Apologies for not responding sooner ... 3 hrs trying to figure out Asus model number soup.

As for layout the TWC coax out is in the living room and the other coax out's are in horrible places, so the coax runs to a Surfboard SB6183 (modem only), then CAT5 to an ancient DIR-825 and then there is the NAS, Roku, appleTV and a console all wired to the DIR-825 LAN ports. They are all jammed in a media cabinet which is horrible for both heat and signal - then multiple HDMI outs to the TV that sits on top of the cabinet.
In the office which is 12ft away, through a non load bearing wall (studs and drywall), there is a DAP-1522 access point and I run CAT5 from that to the PC which is right beside it. So all the old network hardware is junk and needs to go.

L&LD, I like your idea of the Asus RT-AC1900P and the RT-AC56U with the NAS and the PC both on CAT5 to the 56U in the office and then everything else on the AC1900P in the living room. I can move the AC1900P out of the cabinet and put it either beside or behind the TV if it will help with signal quality. I would get the RT-AC3100 but that thing really needs to be buried out of sight, plus I don't know if it adds anything. Same for Orbi - I feel like it's going to be slower on the office to modem link and it's not going to add anything to coverage by having the satellite 12ft away. Totally open to correction on that.
Also, with the Orbi you only get 3 LAN ports on the main unit (not end of the world), but aren't the router/firewall features a bit limited too?
Finally I was thinking that with the PCE-AC88, even if the speed is the same, I guess you have no option to move the NAS over to the office ... so thats a big drawback ... or in general you can't connect other wired devices from the office. I thought maybe the AC88 is much faster than a bridge but if that's not the case then the bridge seems like a more flexible solution.

Again, thanks all for the input.

james_c, I agree that by having the NAS directly connected (via Ethernet LAN cables) to your PC it will give the best performance under all, single user, conditions. The RT-AC1900P and the RT-AC56U is easily one of the best combo's for your use today (with the 'AC56U used in Bridge mode and the PC and NAS connected via it's LAN ports, of course).

The Orbi is very limited today versus what a supported, RMerlin powered, Asus router offers. Sure, the 'router + AP' WiFi performance is the best in class, but that is just a part of most networks requirements today. If a strong router + AP solution is actually required, it may be worth considering. But there is no WiFi solution that will give you better performance than a wired LAN (even on the entry level 'AC56U's switch ports).

Yes, paired with the right router (4x4:4 capable), the PCE-AC88 will be faster (wirelessly). But wireless incurs very high overhead and even with an excellent connection, the overall performance won't be faster than wired LAN. And this is even before assuming no RF interference, now or in the future.

For $250, for your requirements and (future) network layout (with the NAS directly wired to the same router as the PC), this will be the fastest and most stable setup you can buy.

Keep us posted on how this project works out.

 

[pete y testing]

The Orbi doesn't use the same channels for the backhaul. 5GHz high (backhaul) and 5GHz low (for clients) as I understand it.

correct but its the same as any tri band router , it just uses 3 transmissions

Not to mention once again the flexibility of having an actual router in your arsenal of networking products versus just an adaptor (and at a significant cost savings too).

and is why the orbi is a better idea

The RT-AC1900P and the RT-AC56U is easily one of the best combo's for your use today (with the 'AC56U used in Bridge mode and the PC and NAS connected via it's LAN ports, of course).

not sure how this is in anyway better than the orbi and in fact would be slower across the bridge than the orbi seeing as

bridge on the orbi is 1733M

bridge on the ac56u is 866M

so the bridge speed is almost twice as quick on the orbi and still has giga ethernet on both ends

the orbi is $399

the rt-1900ac is $199 + rt-ac56u is around $95

so the orbi about $100 more but as the OP asked will he get twice as much and the answer here is yes

pete

 

[L&LD]

pete_y_testing, you're obviously missing the point of the OP's requirements. No problem (he/she won't).

As long as the ISP speeds offered are below the 866Mbps bridge capacity, there won't be a problem.

The Orbi isn't a Tri Band router, afaik. But it will use more channels than the 'AC1900P + 'AC56U combo suggested.

 

[pete y testing]

The Orbi isn't a Tri Band router, afaik

it is

it uses 1 band for backhaul and 2 bands for connectivity thus its tri band

OP's requirements.

he has said nothing about internet connectivity and is more concerned in getting the fastest throughput between his comp and nas

eg router and nas are connect by ethernet and his desktop via wifi

the main part of the OP question is about NAS speed and play ability to all devices in his LAN / WLAN environment

thus he can leave the nas at the router with 2156M and use a pce-ac88 and get almost giga speeds ( 100MB/s ) over the wifi link

or he can get he orbi and get around 60MB/s over its 1733M backbone

or he can get your solution and be limited by the 867M of the media bridge and get around 40MB/s

the number are simple , so i think you missed the point here mate

 

[james_c]

Thanks very much for the responses from both of you. Very helpful. I'm not sure I'd value 80Mb/s over 60Mb/s all that much ... I think either of those speeds will be more than sufficient for some applications and woefully insufficient for others.
Leaving the marketing and the 'technological enjoyment' aside, it's a very narrow band of applications that do much better on 80Mb/s than 60Mb/s.
The raw data that comes off a genome sequencer for example is about 90gb and regardless of whether you can access the NAS over wifi at 60, 100 or 200Mb/s, those files have to be replicated onto local SSD to have any chance of analyzing them. 60Mb/s is more than sufficient though for streaming 4K video. I would give up the addition 20Mb/s any day for lower latency and reliability, not saying this is a required trade off, but I think it's unlikely that I will be sitting here in 3 months cursing the day that I went with a slightly slower connection for less $.

So I just ordered the RT-AC1900P and the RT-AC56U for $255 delivered ... which is pretty good I think ... when someone builds something that's more than just incrementally better I'll just get that (802.11ax ?)

Again, thanks for all the help - I will post back and let you guys know how the setup performs.

 

[thiggins]

L&LD and Pete: Go to your corners and cool off. OP is happy and has thanked you. Thread closed